312 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Persephone wrote...

They explained that, citing the importance of cinematics. While I did not mind the lack of cinematics in DAO dialogue overly much, I appreciated them in DAII. I will say though that I'd gladly sacrifice a good chunk of them to get more dialogue in the next game.

I realize they explained it.  I simply think it was the wrong design decision is all, and more NPC interaction is needed.  I don't think we are that far apart on this issue except perhaps on the precise balance.

-Polaris

[Persephone]

Pwnsaur wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Because I have other issues with the game that are more important to me. Easy as that. <_<

You refuse to acknowledge a games weaknesses because you have greater priorities? That's about as weak an argument as I have ever heard. Do you have a quota of complaints and any more than that short-circuits your brain? I am so disappointed in human beings these days...

If you are done spouting venom, could we get back to discussing the game itself?

Yes, people have different priorities. Shocking, I know. Some people like what others dislike. It's an easy thing to grasp. Or so one might think.

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

Persephone wrote...

They explained that, citing the importance of cinematics. While I did not mind the lack of cinematics in DAO dialogue overly much, I appreciated them in DAII. I will say though that I'd gladly sacrifice a good chunk of them to get more dialogue in the next game.

I realize they explained it.  I simply think it was the wrong design decision is all, and more NPC interaction is needed.  I don't think we are that far apart on this issue except perhaps on the precise balance.

-Polaris

Agreed. I do hope that Bioware will find that balance in future installments. They are aware of it being an issue, so here's to hoping. :happy:

[errant_knight]

XGrlGamerX wrote...

Hit the nail on the head with not being able to talk to your teammates and NPCS. It creates a barrier between connecting to your characters and more importantly, the world you are playing in.

I don't think it was as bad as the entree he used metaphorically, but Dragon Age 2 did seem like they were stepping back from what Bioware is known for which is there character development.

Well, based off interviews, the developers seem to be taking in our comments in regards to what we did not like in the last game. I just hope they really change this not being able to talk to NPCS thing in both ME3 and DA3.

I agree entirely. I almost certainly would have enjoyed the game more if I could have talked to characters in a more natural way, as we could in Origins. None of the alternate methods they've tried have worked as well, making character relationships far less involving. While I disliked haveing a voiced PC, it wouldn't have been as bad if conversation had been at will, and had stayed within the PC's POV.

[IanPolaris]

One more thing. Please, PLEASE, don't paraphrase. If the conversation item says "X" then I want my character to say "X" and not something sortakinda like "X" but is really "Y".

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

[dp]

[dheer]

Pwnsaur wrote...

dheer wrote...
This thread needs to be locked. Whining followed by whining about whining, followed by calling each other names and so on. *sigh*

Who the hell is making you read this? Get lost.

I'm being held at knife point, forced to read your inane trolling.....also, oh no, I think I am lost.

[Persephone]

IanPolaris wrote...

One more thing. Please, PLEASE, don't paraphrase. If the conversation item says "X" then I want my character to say "X" and not something sortakinda like "X" but is really "Y".

-Polaris

Or if they HAVE TO (Wheel seems to limit the length of responses being visible), give us the "Hover over the paraphrase to see the entire response" toggle that was discussed a while back.

Modifié par Persephone, 20 août 2011 - 06:22 .

[Pwnsaur]

Persephone wrote...

If you are done spouting venom, could we get back to discussing the game itself?

Yes, people have different priorities. Shocking, I know. Some people like what others dislike. It's an easy thing to grasp. Or so one might think.

Way to completely ignore my argument. I wasn't commenting on how you have different priorities, I was challenging your flawed perspective. Your rebuttal was that you can't acknowledge said argument because you don't deem the subject as being worthy. Not a valid response, unfortunately. It's a way of saying 'I have no counter-point.' You yourself admit to liking NPC dialogue, so 'liking what others dislike' is also a fallacious argument. You have no legs to stand-on and yet you refuse to admit that you're wrong. NPC interaction in DA2 was 99% marked or quest-related. Previous to that, it was not. The fact remains.

[Pwnsaur]

[quote]dheer wrote...
[/quote]
I'm being held at knife point, forced to read your inane trolling.....also, oh no, I think I am lost.

[/quote]

Just because it's your word of the day, doesn't mean it fits the application. My posts have not been 'inane' in any way. But thanks for playing.

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 20 août 2011 - 06:17 .

[dheer]

Just because it's your word of the day, doesn't mean it fits the application. My posts have not been 'inane' in any way. But thanks for playing.

Inane

Adjective

1. Lacking sense, significance, or ideas; silly.

2. Empty; void.

Noun

3. Something that is empty or void, especially the void of infinite space.

Seems to fit just fine.

[XGrlGamerX]

Persephone wrote...

XGrlGamerX wrote...

Hit the nail on the head with not being able to talk to your teammates and NPCS. It creates a barrier between connecting to your characters and more importantly, the world you are playing in.

You know, "being able" to talk to teammates and having to click "Never mind" because I've run out of dialogue does just that. And then they tag along silently for half the game, unless you metagame. In DAII, companions speak up a lot more and their dialogue is spread out decently. Was there too little? Hell, yes, I want more than what we got & Bioware listened & released Legacy rather than a DAO DLC copy where the companions say little to nada.

True, true. Not saying that the DAO system was the best, but it was better than not being able to talk to your NPCS like in DA2. It just saddens me because that is one of the main reasons I play Bioware games, and they took that feature out. lol

[Heather Cline]

this was a funny review. *shrugs* good for a laugh.

[Serpieri Nei]

Interesting review with some very valid points, it’s sad that it does have to be said over and over again “When a developer finds themselves removing things rather than adding them, the red flag should pop right the $%^& up and they should head back to the drawing board”. Instead of wasting time removing things from the players that weren’t even broken, Bioware should have spent that time actually growing the series instead of taking it several steps backwards and calling what’s left innovative.

[Persephone]

XGrlGamerX wrote...

Persephone wrote...

XGrlGamerX wrote...

Hit the nail on the head with not being able to talk to your teammates and NPCS. It creates a barrier between connecting to your characters and more importantly, the world you are playing in.

You know, "being able" to talk to teammates and having to click "Never mind" because I've run out of dialogue does just that. And then they tag along silently for half the game, unless you metagame. In DAII, companions speak up a lot more and their dialogue is spread out decently. Was there too little? Hell, yes, I want more than what we got & Bioware listened & released Legacy rather than a DAO DLC copy where the companions say little to nada.

True, true. Not saying that the DAO system was the best, but it was better than not being able to talk to your NPCS like in DA2. It just saddens me because that is one of the main reasons I play Bioware games, and they took that feature out. lol

IMO a compromise would be the best solution. And I agree. Let's hope that Bioware considers this at least.

[Pwnsaur]

dheer wrote...

Adjective

1. Lacking sense, significance, or ideas; silly.

2. Empty; void.

Noun

3. Something that is empty or void, especially the void of infinite space.

Seems to fit just fine.

Everything I have said thus far is coherent. Significance is subjective and dependent upon the context, and with 6 pages and hundreds of views, I'd say it was plenty significant. It has not been silly in any way.

It was not empty or void, that would make no sense for this application.

The third is not applicable to this situation.

Again, I know it was audibly appealing and the aesthetic of the adj-to-noun is wonderful literary syntax.. but it just doesn't fit. Sorry. Take it from an Op/Ed writer with an MA in English; You're wrong.

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 20 août 2011 - 06:35 .

[TEWR]

First off, that was awesome.

Second, I have to agree with his review on some things and disagree with it on others:

• Dialogue for each companion background is actually more than what Origins had, if you take out all the dialogue in Origins that was just "Here's some lore and stories! Now shut the **** up!". That said, I do want to talk to companions in their homes or at the base when I want to, but about important things regarding the person.
  
• The combat animations for the companions isn't the problem, nor is the combat in general the problem. It's that Bioware didn't bother to give the enemies the same animations we now use or that they can't even make a tactical fight. A truly tactical fight. Though I absolutely don't want something like Fallout: New Vegas where what he said happened... well... happens. A player shouldn't have to tap X to win. They should have to think.
  
• FFXIII was a great game imo, save for the linearity. The characters and story was great for me. And the combat could be improved, but I liked it.
  
• I do miss being able to talk to people in the actual world. I could talk to Bella, Lloyd, Owen, Murdock, Sarel, etc. That's something the world of Dragon Age is missing right now.
  
• Those "wonky animations" he mentioned were part of DA:O. And I liked the new look of Flemeth and of each race , save for most of the Darkspawn (which I'm surprised he didn't talk about).
  
• He's right that the plot was extremely hard to buy into, and it's not just because of the reasons he stated (for the record, I could connect with most of the companions if not all of them).
• If this dude was a member on the BSN or even the Bioware team, I bet DAIII would be amazing

 




All in all, it was a good review of DAII

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 août 2011 - 06:35 .

[FieryDove]

Persephone wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

I realize they explained it.  I simply think it was the wrong design decision is all, and more NPC interaction is needed.  I don't think we are that far apart on this issue except perhaps on the precise balance.

-Polaris

Agreed. I do hope that Bioware will find that balance in future installments. They are aware of it being an issue, so here's to hoping. :happy:

They knew it was an issue from awakening. From everything I've heard and read feel that it's not a top priority. Add another conversation or scene but have to cut something else type comments. Frustrating when  I feel story and companions is what Bioware does best. It seems...undervalued by the higher ups.

[Pwnsaur]

[*]Dialogue for each companion background is actually more than what Origins had, if you take out all the dialogue in Origins that was just "Here's some lore and stories! Now shut the **** up!". That said, I do want to talk to companions in their homes or at the base when I want to, but about important things regarding the person.

[*]I don't take issue with anything you said except this. There is far less back-story and dialogue for each companion in DA2. I had played DA:O in it's entirety right before DA2 in preparation and it's no contest. Obviously I don't have detailed graphs depicting exact numbers, but DA2 had much less.

[dheer]

Pwnsaur wrote...

dheer wrote...
Adjective

1. Lacking sense, significance, or ideas; silly.

2. Empty; void.

Noun

3. Something that is empty or void, especially the void of infinite space.

Seems to fit just fine.

Everything I have said thus far is coherent. Significance is subjective and dependant upon the context, and with 6 pages and hundreds of views, I'd say it was plenty significant. It has not been silly in any way.

It was not empty or void, that would make no sense for this application.

The third is not applicable to this situation.

Again, I know it was audibly appealing and the aesthetic of the adj-to-noun is wonderful literary syntax.. but it just doesn't fit. Sorry. Take it from an Op/Ed writer with an MA in English; You're wrong.

Most of what you've written has been about how awesome the review was, rambling, telling everyone else they're wrong and swearing. So, no, it has lacked sense in many areas and many of your so called points were void of any real meaning.

Again, I know it upset you but it does apply. Take it from an astronaut/big brother volunteer with a double major of super english and space flight.

[TEWR]

Pwnsaur wrote...

[*]Dialogue for each companion background is actually more than what Origins had, if you take out all the dialogue in Origins that was just "Here's some lore and stories! Now shut the **** up!". That said, I do want to talk to companions in their homes or at the base when I want to, but about important things regarding the person.

I don't take issue with anything you said except this. There is far less back-story and dialogue for each companion in DA2. I had played DA:O in it's entirety right before DA2 in preparation and it's no contest. Obviously I don't have detailed graphs depicting exact numbers, but DA2 had much less.

There is more dialogue in DAO, but most of that is entirely "Tell me about this bit of lore". What isn't lore is their background story, and I feel that DAII had at the very least the same amount if not more, depending on the character. Though it's been a while since I've played DAII, so I'm going off of memory. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just what I feel is the case.

Anyway, DAII wasn't entirely successful in dialogue. That much is certain. There are some things that they needed to allow for. You couldn't really talk to Aveline about how she met Wesley (something the player only knows if they read her short story).

Now, for me I got to know Merrill, Varric, Sebastian, and Fenris really well. Anders gave me some background, but was more focused on the Mages then anything else. Isabela didn't really talk about her past that much, though admittedly I don't think she wanted to talk about it. She would talk about her life as captain, but anything before that was scarce. Aveline gave me some background, but she wanted to keep it to herself, so it was nice to find out more about her present life with Donnic.

I don't think Bioware did the siblings well in any regard. The first death was unnecessary imo, and I think both siblings should've lived. Had Bioware done that we would've been able to connect to them more because we would've had Hawke talking to both of his siblings in some instances. And that allows for a far deeper connection to them when one or both do actually die. Not to mention they just heap death on us like it's ****ing caramel on an apple. Only what they did left a ****ty taste in my mouth, to put it bluntly.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 août 2011 - 06:54 .

[Pwnsaur]

dheer wrote...
Most of what you've written has been about how awesome the review was, rambling, telling everyone else they're wrong and swearing. So, no, it has lacked sense in many areas and many of your so called points were void of any real meaning.

Again, I know it upset you but it does apply. Take it from an astronaut/big brother volunteer with a double major of super english and space flight.

All my points have had meaning and reasoning to support them. I have also not 'lacked sense,' otherwise known as being unreasonable. Additionally, telling people they're wrong and swearing is not being 'inane.' You can grasp tightly to that pillar of self-righteousness, but I have all but chipped it away.

[IanPolaris]

Pwnsaur wrote...

dheer wrote...
Most of what you've written has been about how awesome the review was, rambling, telling everyone else they're wrong and swearing. So, no, it has lacked sense in many areas and many of your so called points were void of any real meaning.

Again, I know it upset you but it does apply. Take it from an astronaut/big brother volunteer with a double major of super english and space flight.

All my points have had meaning and reasoning to support them. I have also not 'lacked sense,' otherwise known as being unreasonable. Additionally, telling people they're wrong and swearing is not being 'inane.' You can grasp tightly to that pillar of self-righteousness, but I have all but chipped it away.

I know this might sound odd coming from me, but I think you'd attract more flies with honey than vinegar.  In short, just because you basically agreed with that review (as did I and said so) doesn't mean you should take their style of conversation to the boards and expect anything other than a hostile response even by those that agree with you.

I hope you noted the conversation I had with another poster who I've disagreed with quite openly on many threads.  It was civil.  You might want to take this to heard.  Again just saying.

-Polaris

[Pwnsaur]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
[*]There is more dialogue in DAO, but most of that is entirely "Tell me about this bit of lore". What isn't lore is their background story, and I feel that DAII had at the very least the same amount if not more, depending on the character. Though it's been a while since I've played DAII, so I'm going off of memory. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just what I feel is the case.

[*]I don't have any numbers or anything to back me up, but character interaction and dialogue has always been my absolute favorite part of BioWare games (and games in general). So much so that I cannot wait to do another quest and trigger a new set of dialogue opportunities with my companions. All I can really say is that after playing DA:O and playing DA2 directly after, I was very disappointed. I felt like there were far, far less opportunities to speak with companions and they had far less to say. That's all I can really say though, and I would swear by it.. but sadly there is no way to prove it so I will just stop debating it.
[*]
[*]We agree on pretty much everything else, however. Especially the family member losses, which seemed very contrived to me. It seemed to be thrusted in awkwardly to add drama to the story. I wasn't affected very much, however, because I barely had an opportunity to get to know either person. Additionally, once they had died there was such little dialogue about it, it seemed trivial. I thought the Bethany being sent to the Circle was the worst. Literally not going to visit her once or even acknowledging her loss in almost any way? Not acceptable. And then you see her near the end of the game and you almost don't even say a word!? Unforgiveable.

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 20 août 2011 - 07:12 .

[alex90c]

Pwnsaur wrote...

Persephone wrote...

If you are done spouting venom, could we get back to discussing the game itself?

Yes, people have different priorities. Shocking, I know. Some people like what others dislike. It's an easy thing to grasp. Or so one might think.

Way to completely ignore my argument. I wasn't commenting on how you have different priorities, I was challenging your flawed perspective. Your rebuttal was that you can't acknowledge said argument because you don't deem the subject as being worthy. Not a valid response, unfortunately. It's a way of saying 'I have no counter-point.' You yourself admit to liking NPC dialogue, so 'liking what others dislike' is also a fallacious argument. You have no legs to stand-on and yet you refuse to admit that you're wrong. NPC interaction in DA2 was 99% marked or quest-related. Previous to that, it was not. The fact remains.

chill THE F*CK OUT

seriously

i hate DA2 as much as the next guy/girl but pretty much going "stfu b*tch" when perse says anything is just ...

....lame.