312 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonfire100]

Pwnsaur wrote...

Persephone wrote...

What argument would that be exactly? It may have been lost between all the tantrums, swearing and juvenile ranting.

Still complaining about ad-hominem, dearie? Oh dear, he can dish it out but not take it. Phew!

OK, lets be civil for a moment...

Thats what could have been said hours ago!

[Pwnsaur]

Everwarden wrote...

On topic:

I really liked the review. I think the venom was a bit tongue-in-cheek, or if not I at least got a chuckle from it. Some decent points were made, and some of the lines were.. if not clever, at least well delivered.

I quite like you

Additionally, your signature link is EPIC! So good, hahahaha!

[Persephone]

Pwnsaur wrote...

Persephone wrote...

What argument would that be exactly? It may have been lost between all the tantrums, swearing and juvenile ranting.

Still complaining about ad-hominem, dearie? Oh dear, he can dish it out but not take it. Phew!

OK, lets be civil for a moment...

You said that the video reviewer blatantly lied about there being almost no NPC's to talk to outside of those marked with arrows and ones related to quests. You countered with a paltry example, and I maintained that those examples represented the extreme minority and did not accurately represent the gaming experience as a whole. To this, you replied that you will not acknowledge this obvious and well-documented shortcomming of DA2 because you have greater priorities.

Now, having greater priorities does not preclude you from being able to acknowledge anything. It was an attempt at circumnavigating the point I had made to avoid admitting you were incorrect in calling the reviewer a 'blatant liar.'

That's where we've been for a while now.

Ah, I see.

Let me put it this way then:

I agree that NPC interaction has been severely limited. But to flat out state that it takes a quest marker to initiate dialogue is untrue. Now, given that it happens far less than in Origins, this may be an acceptable oversight. I tend to be more sensitive in that area because I've seen stuff fabricated about DAII that made me utterly sick. I agree that I have overreacted there and I do apologize for that. As you may imagine, enjoying DAII here does not do you any favors. I have had people impersonating me, trolling my FF.net account, threatening/harassing me via PM etc. That kind of wears you down just a tad. However: I do have issues with DAII that are deeply rooted within its core design and rushed dev cycle. Cut NPC interaction being one of them.

"blatant lies" was an unfortunate choice of words, it may really have been an honest mistake on the reviewer's part. Benefit of the doubt applies.

Now, I hope we can move past this. Peace?:happy:

[Stanley Woo]

This discussion should get back to discussing DA2 rather than discussing review systems.

[Pwnsaur]

Persephone wrote...
Now, I hope we can move past this. Peace?:happy:

Absolutely! One thing though, you must admit that the non-companion/family-member NPC interaction was 99% quest/arrow marked and 1% random unmarked NPC's. Because this was the single most disappointing aspect of DA2 for me, and it was what I was most sensitive to. No hard feelings. :innocent:

[Persephone]

Pwnsaur wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Now, I hope we can move past this. Peace?:happy:

Absolutely! One thing though, you must admit that the non-companion/family-member NPC interaction was 99% quest/arrow marked and 1% random unmarked NPC's. Because this was the single most disappointing aspect of DA2 for me, and it was what I was most sensitive to. No hard feelings. :innocent:

Pssssssssssssst!!! Turn off the quest markers in the Options menu.....

I kid, I kid!

[alex90c]

You're very forgiving, Perse.

[Persephone]

alex90c wrote...

You're very forgiving, Perse.

I value my life, ya know? 

But yes, I know I tend to be on the forgiving end of things. A twisted part within me thinks that if I am forgiving, I may receive the same treatment on the other end.

Diplomacy is a handy tool.

[Cutlass Jack]

Pwnsaur wrote...

Absolutely! One thing though, you must admit that the non-companion/family-member NPC interaction was 99% quest/arrow marked and 1% random unmarked NPC's. Because this was the single most disappointing aspect of DA2 for me, and it was what I was most sensitive to. No hard feelings.

But I hope you would agree that not everyone would be bothered by that to the same level yes? I think is where much of the disagreements come from. What drives one person to distraction might not register at all to someone else because their attention is focused elsewhere.

[Pwnsaur]

alex90c wrote...

You're very forgiving, Perse.

We both said some unflattering things to each other buddy, don't treat her like such a victim. She held her own just fine.

[Persephone]

Fandango9641 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You're very forgiving, Perse.

As a fan of DA2, she has to be.

And as a hater, you just had to make that unnecessary jab, I take it?

[Mr.House]

Fandango9641 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You're very forgiving, Perse.

As a fan of DA2, she has to be.

I'm not very forgiving and I enjoyed DA2.

[Persephone]

Pwnsaur wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You're very forgiving, Perse.

We both said some unflattering things to each other buddy, don't treat her like such a victim. She held her own just fine.

Very true, we did. Here's to improved DAII debates in the future! *Raises imaginary glass*

[Pwnsaur]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
But I hope you would agree that not everyone would be bothered by that to the same level yes? I think is where much of the disagreements come from. What drives one person to distraction might not register at all to someone else because their attention is focused elsewhere.

Most players who have voiced their concerns about DA2 have mentioned the drastically reduced NPC interaction. Additionally, the person with which I was debating admitted that NPC interaction was something she liked about BioWare games. This argument was never on the importance of the element, but the lack of the element being present in the game.

[alex90c]

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You're very forgiving, Perse.

I value my life, ya know? 

But yes, I know I tend to be on the forgiving end of things. A twisted part within me thinks that if I am forgiving, I may receive the same treatment on the other end.

Diplomacy is a handy tool.

Never.

Next thread we will be at war once again.

[Persephone]

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You're very forgiving, Perse.

I value my life, ya know? 

But yes, I know I tend to be on the forgiving end of things. A twisted part within me thinks that if I am forgiving, I may receive the same treatment on the other end.

Diplomacy is a handy tool.

Never.

Next thread we will be at war once again.

Our alliance is hereby broken!!! TO ARMS!

[Persephone]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

You're very forgiving, Perse.

As a fan of DA2, she has to be.

And as a hater, you just had to make that unnecessary jab, I take it?

Couldnt resist Perse, soz. Just as an aside, and in all seriousness, I think it's disgusting that you are being trolled for loving DA2 (admin should do something about that for sure). x 

Thanks. :happy: But we made peace now and I do not believe in holding grudges. (For long )

[Pwnsaur]

Persephone wrote...

Very true, we did. Here's to improved DAII debates in the future! *Raises imaginary glass*

I'm afraid that this video only reawakened a firestorm of hatred from within me that died out months ago. Now that it has been unleashed and subsequently quelled, I suspect I'll do what I was doing for months before this.... Completely ignoring the existence of DA2 in hopes that BioWare will right the ship and start putting out A+ titles again. Hahaha, I'd imagine you may not see me around until ME3 comes out... which may be too soon for some of these people hahaha! If we do happen to meet again on the forums, I promise to be less :devil: and more :lol:.

Unless ME3 sucks... in which case I may just stop playing BioWare games altogether haha

[AtreiyaN7]

IanPolaris wrote...

Well, I have to say that over the past few months I have been less than thrilled (to put it very mildly) with how Bioware and it's staff have taken honest criticism from it's customer base, but that's another long topic that probably should be discussed at length elsewhere.

-Polaris

Judging by Legacy, I would have to say that they clearly have been listening to the "honest criticism" (in the giant constructive criticism thread). If you mean this in some other sense such as having BW kow-tow and offer up and apology as if they've somehow done something wrong (which I've seen some people demand), well, no. I don't see why they should. If people didn't like the game or aspects of the game, well, it's just unfortunate, and they can offer their opinions, but they shouldn't expect an apology or anything more than that their feedback will be taken into account.

[Ianamus]

Yes, he may have overused swearing, and may have turned his arguments into a rant, but that does not change the fact that he has many valid points.

When making Dragon Age 2 they threw away many things that made the game great, and have pretty much told us that we will not be seeing those things again. 

It's not about about the waves of enemies or re-used environments. They were not changes made from Origins for a deliberate purpose, but a product of the limited development time and need of more enemies. 

The problem is things like the dialogue wheel, a completely unnecessary and over-simplified addition from Mass Effect, and the crafting system, which might as well be the dragon age equivelent of an Argos catalogue. 

Those are the real problem, unnecessary changes that Bioware plan on keeping in future games. Yes they have adressed the waves of enemies and re-used environments, but the core problems, the little things that made Dragon Age 2 weaker than it's predecessor, will probably still be present in the next game. 

I'm actually getting annyoyed that Bioware insist Dragon Age 2 is a step forward for the franchise. Yes, I liked the game, but myself, everybody I know who played the game, and many people online, including reviewers, agree that it was not as good as Origins. If that is the case then how is it a step forward? They call it polarising, but the people who think that it was better than origins overall seem to be a minority. It seems to be polarisation between people who think it was as good as Origins, and people who think it was much worse. 

With that as the case it was nothing but a step back overall, and if it takes people yelling and swearing to make Bioware realise that, and that just taking a lot of features back to how they were in Origins is the real step forwards here, then so be it. 

Modifié par EJ107, 20 août 2011 - 08:16 .

[IanPolaris]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Well, I have to say that over the past few months I have been less than thrilled (to put it very mildly) with how Bioware and it's staff have taken honest criticism from it's customer base, but that's another long topic that probably should be discussed at length elsewhere.

-Polaris

Judging by Legacy, I would have to say that they clearly have been listening to the "honest criticism" (in the giant constructive criticism thread). If you mean this in some other sense such as having BW kow-tow and offer up and apology as if they've somehow done something wrong (which I've seen some people demand), well, no. I don't see why they should. If people didn't like the game or aspects of the game, well, it's just unfortunate, and they can offer their opinions, but they shouldn't expect an apology or anything more than that their feedback will be taken into account.

I was referring to other things such as a persistant need to "blame the customer" for "not getting" how good DA2 is.  We've heard that a lot from a number of Bioware sources the past few months and I am tired of it.  There is also a refusal (even in Legacy) to admit that Bioware failed to listen and undertstand it's customers to start with.

Based on prior discussions on these points, I doubt we will ever agree.

-Polaris

[MorrigansLove]

This thread hasn't been locked yet?

[Persephone]

EJ107 wrote...

With that as the case it was nothing but a step back overall, and if it takes people yelling and swearing to make Bioware realise that, and that just taking a lot of features back to how they were in Origins is the real step forwards here, then so be it. 

I doubt that that is the kind of feedback they will note. The Constructive Criticism thread on the other hand....now there's a chance to be heard and being noticed by the devs.