1104 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

My genes don't but my social environment did.

[Xilizhra]

Nashiktal wrote...

My genes don't but my social environment did.

And I live in a different social environment now.

[KotorEffect3]

I doubt it will come to this in the game, I know we might have to choose civilization vs civilization but I doubt it will be human vs asari when it comes to who we save.

[Nashiktal]

Xilizhra wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

My genes don't but my social environment did.

And I live in a different social environment now.

Even so why save Thessia? The Asari could save their entire species with only one living member, while humanity might not recover from losing Earth depending on how the war goes.

[Xilizhra]

Nashiktal wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

My genes don't but my social environment did.

And I live in a different social environment now.

Even so why save Thessia? The Asari could save their entire species with only one living member, while humanity might not recover from losing Earth depending on how the war goes.

Again, population numbers.

[SandTrout]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm looking at population numbers, nothing more. I feel no political affiliation with my species in any case; my genes don't determine my allegiance.

Your ability to reproduce and create a future for yourself beyond your own lifetime should, though. A healty individual looks after themselves first, then their immediate family, then social groups that are progressively larger.

If you try to take on too large of a scale before caring to the smaller scale, then you will likely find your efforts wasted because an individual's influence is diluted more and more with each larger social group.

[TobyHasEyes]

Luc0s wrote...

If Mass Effect was real I'm 100% every single human would answer with "no".

EVERY - SINGLE - ONE!

No-one in their rightful mind would put another species above their own in real-life. It just isn't natural!

 Our brain's development and structure (in so far as it relates to our personality) is largely determined by environment and culture, so natural loyalties can be overridden given the right development in a person's life

 The problem with this question as people put it is there are too many complications. People are debating here the comparitive abilities of humans and asari to survive without their respective homeworlds, or to what extent each needs defending etc. For me the greatest complication is that, if we are suggesting that either all humans will die or all asari will die, then the loss of life is hugely greater is all asari die

Imagine a viewpoint where, taking your own life out of the equation, we have the last human colony on one planet and the last asari colony on the adjacent planet. The human colony has just a big enough population to guarantee the survival of the human race were it saved. The asari colony has the exact same population number. Both planets are equally desirable, you have no LI or anything like that on either planet, nor do you have to consider which would help against the Reapers, the simple choice is which species do you save, condemning the other to extinction

 I suspect with all the variables taken out in such a way most people will pick humans, and I wouldn't berate them for it. Without all the variables, which would normally guide my own decision in these matters, on principal I would suggest a random choice. Or consider the consequences of my decision on either population..

[Xilizhra]

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm looking at population numbers, nothing more. I feel no political affiliation with my species in any case; my genes don't determine my allegiance.

Your ability to reproduce and create a future for yourself beyond your own lifetime should, though. A healty individual looks after themselves first, then their immediate family, then social groups that are progressively larger.

If you try to take on too large of a scale before caring to the smaller scale, then you will likely find your efforts wasted because an individual's influence is diluted more and more with each larger social group.

I've said it numerous times. Even though I don't believe the argument is valid, if it was, I'm reproducing with an asari. They would consist of my immediate family, and then I'd take on whichever larger social groups were in more need.

[Nashiktal]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

If Mass Effect was real I'm 100% every single human would answer with "no".

EVERY - SINGLE - ONE!

No-one in their rightful mind would put another species above their own in real-life. It just isn't natural!

 Our brain's development and structure (in so far as it relates to our personality) is largely determined by environment and culture, so natural loyalties can be overridden given the right development in a person's life

 The problem with this question as people put it is there are too many complications. People are debating here the comparitive abilities of humans and asari to survive without their respective homeworlds, or to what extent each needs defending etc. For me the greatest complication is that, if we are suggesting that either all humans will die or all asari will die, then the loss of life is hugely greater is all asari die

Imagine a viewpoint where, taking your own life out of the equation, we have the last human colony on one planet and the last asari colony on the adjacent planet. The human colony has just a big enough population to guarantee the survival of the human race were it saved. The asari colony has the exact same population number. Both planets are equally desirable, you have no LI or anything like that on either planet, nor do you have to consider which would help against the Reapers, the simple choice is which species do you save, condemning the other to extinction

 I suspect with all the variables taken out in such a way most people will pick humans, and I wouldn't berate them for it. Without all the variables, which would normally guide my own decision in these matters, on principal I would suggest a random choice. Or consider the consequences of my decision on either population..

The problem is, the entire asari species can be saved by just one really productive individual. Not kidding here.

Natural loyalties aside, the Asari are a mary sue race. They have almost every advantage that would help them survive. They can mate with anything with a nervous system, they can kill with their minds, and even have the ability to live for around 1000 years.

They will be fine.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 21 août 2011 - 08:46 .

[TobyHasEyes]

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm looking at population numbers, nothing more. I feel no political affiliation with my species in any case; my genes don't determine my allegiance.

Your ability to reproduce and create a future for yourself beyond your own lifetime should, though. A healty individual looks after themselves first, then their immediate family, then social groups that are progressively larger.

If you try to take on too large of a scale before caring to the smaller scale, then you will likely find your efforts wasted because an individual's influence is diluted more and more with each larger social group.

 The ME universe, and this asari or human decision, is taking place in the theoretical situation where those efforts would not be squandered

 Furthermore, if you live in a democracy it is worthwhile considering the options beyond your own social group. When given the choice to increase or maintain spending in various departments, your "healthy individual" would vote against any raise to international development or aid. I would suggest that the idea that that is a healthy decision is dubious, or the idea that your efforts in voting for that increase would be squandered

[Nashiktal]

Xilizhra wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm looking at population numbers, nothing more. I feel no political affiliation with my species in any case; my genes don't determine my allegiance.

Your ability to reproduce and create a future for yourself beyond your own lifetime should, though. A healty individual looks after themselves first, then their immediate family, then social groups that are progressively larger.

If you try to take on too large of a scale before caring to the smaller scale, then you will likely find your efforts wasted because an individual's influence is diluted more and more with each larger social group.

I've said it numerous times. Even though I don't believe the argument is valid, if it was, I'm reproducing with an asari. They would consist of my immediate family, and then I'd take on whichever larger social groups were in more need.

Technically the Asari is reproducing with your nervous system, your not reproducing at all. In fact, your not giving her anything really, shes just using your body to kick start the internal process.

Not to offend, but its essentially like you are a masturbation etch in sketch, she gets pleasure from you, looks at your nervous system, then makes the child internally. 

Not that there is a point in me explaining, im just a nerd here.

However I accept that they would be your social family, although I don't know why they are, you never get such an opportunity in game.

[Twilight_Princess]

Nashiktal wrote...

The problem is, the entire asari species can be saved by just one really productive individual. Not kidding here.

Natural loyalties aside, the Asari are a mary sue race. They have almost every advantage that would help them survive. They can mate with anything with a nervous system, they can kill with their minds, and even have the ability to live for around 1000 years.

They will be fine.

and I'm pretty sure their poop can be used as fuel to power 100 cruisers  

[Dave of Canada]

Nashiktal wrote...

Technically the Asari is reproducing with your nervous system, your not reproducing at all. In fact, your not giving her anything really, shes just using your body to kick start the internal process.

Hell, they don't need another body. Some have stated all that'd be necessary to reproduce is a small bit of radiation.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 21 août 2011 - 08:50 .

[Xilizhra]

Nashiktal wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm looking at population numbers, nothing more. I feel no political affiliation with my species in any case; my genes don't determine my allegiance.

Your ability to reproduce and create a future for yourself beyond your own lifetime should, though. A healty individual looks after themselves first, then their immediate family, then social groups that are progressively larger.

If you try to take on too large of a scale before caring to the smaller scale, then you will likely find your efforts wasted because an individual's influence is diluted more and more with each larger social group.

I've said it numerous times. Even though I don't believe the argument is valid, if it was, I'm reproducing with an asari. They would consist of my immediate family, and then I'd take on whichever larger social groups were in more need.

Technically the Asari is reproducing with your nervous system, your not reproducing at all. In fact, your not giving her anything really, shes just using your body to kick start the internal process.

Not to offend, but its essentially like you are a masturbation etch in sketch, she gets pleasure from you, looks at your nervous system, then makes the child internally. 

Not that there is a point in me explaining, im just a nerd here.

However I accept that they would be your social family, although I don't know why they are, you never get such an opportunity in game.

I honestly don't care how it works biologically, just that whatever daughters I have would be just as loved as if they were human.

As for why... well, Liara.

[marshalleck]

Xilizhra wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm looking at population numbers, nothing more. I feel no political affiliation with my species in any case; my genes don't determine my allegiance.

Your ability to reproduce and create a future for yourself beyond your own lifetime should, though. A healty individual looks after themselves first, then their immediate family, then social groups that are progressively larger.

If you try to take on too large of a scale before caring to the smaller scale, then you will likely find your efforts wasted because an individual's influence is diluted more and more with each larger social group.

I've said it numerous times. Even though I don't believe the argument is valid, if it was, I'm reproducing with an asari. They would consist of my immediate family, and then I'd take on whichever larger social groups were in more need.

Which is actually great. It's probably best that your Shepard's tendencies will not be passed to the next generation.

[TobyHasEyes]

Nashiktal wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

If Mass Effect was real I'm 100% every single human would answer with "no".

EVERY - SINGLE - ONE!

No-one in their rightful mind would put another species above their own in real-life. It just isn't natural!

 Our brain's development and structure (in so far as it relates to our personality) is largely determined by environment and culture, so natural loyalties can be overridden given the right development in a person's life

 The problem with this question as people put it is there are too many complications. People are debating here the comparitive abilities of humans and asari to survive without their respective homeworlds, or to what extent each needs defending etc. For me the greatest complication is that, if we are suggesting that either all humans will die or all asari will die, then the loss of life is hugely greater is all asari die

Imagine a viewpoint where, taking your own life out of the equation, we have the last human colony on one planet and the last asari colony on the adjacent planet. The human colony has just a big enough population to guarantee the survival of the human race were it saved. The asari colony has the exact same population number. Both planets are equally desirable, you have no LI or anything like that on either planet, nor do you have to consider which would help against the Reapers, the simple choice is which species do you save, condemning the other to extinction

 I suspect with all the variables taken out in such a way most people will pick humans, and I wouldn't berate them for it. Without all the variables, which would normally guide my own decision in these matters, on principal I would suggest a random choice. Or consider the consequences of my decision on either population..

The problem is, the entire asari species can be saved by just one really productive individual. Not kidding here.

Natural loyalties aside, the Asari are a mary sue race. They have almost every advantage that would help them survive. They can mate with anything with a nervous system, they can kill with their minds, and even have the ability to live for around 1000 years.

They will be fine.

 But the question is, if one species will die, which would you save? The point of that 'imagined viewpoint' was that it took those considerations out of the equation, because as I say, the actual loss of life from my decisions would sway me more than the survivability of those saved

 So with all other considerations taken into account, the choice is that if one will definately become extinct, and you can choose which of the two will not become extinct, which do you choose

 As I say, I am sure most people will pick humans, but my point is that this then goes to the heart of the alleged choice

[TobyHasEyes]

marshalleck wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm looking at population numbers, nothing more. I feel no political affiliation with my species in any case; my genes don't determine my allegiance.

Your ability to reproduce and create a future for yourself beyond your own lifetime should, though. A healty individual looks after themselves first, then their immediate family, then social groups that are progressively larger.

If you try to take on too large of a scale before caring to the smaller scale, then you will likely find your efforts wasted because an individual's influence is diluted more and more with each larger social group.

I've said it numerous times. Even though I don't believe the argument is valid, if it was, I'm reproducing with an asari. They would consist of my immediate family, and then I'd take on whichever larger social groups were in more need.

Which is actually great. It's probably best that your Shepard's tendencies will not be passed to the next generation.

 Except the extent to which your tendencies are passed on are more defined by how you raise the child than the genetics you give it, so those tendencies of 'not putting your own species first' would likely pass on to the asari child even though it has none of your genetics

[Nashiktal]

Xilizhra wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm looking at population numbers, nothing more. I feel no political affiliation with my species in any case; my genes don't determine my allegiance.

Your ability to reproduce and create a future for yourself beyond your own lifetime should, though. A healty individual looks after themselves first, then their immediate family, then social groups that are progressively larger.

If you try to take on too large of a scale before caring to the smaller scale, then you will likely find your efforts wasted because an individual's influence is diluted more and more with each larger social group.

I've said it numerous times. Even though I don't believe the argument is valid, if it was, I'm reproducing with an asari. They would consist of my immediate family, and then I'd take on whichever larger social groups were in more need.

Technically the Asari is reproducing with your nervous system, your not reproducing at all. In fact, your not giving her anything really, shes just using your body to kick start the internal process.

Not to offend, but its essentially like you are a masturbation etch in sketch, she gets pleasure from you, looks at your nervous system, then makes the child internally. 

Not that there is a point in me explaining, im just a nerd here.

However I accept that they would be your social family, although I don't know why they are, you never get such an opportunity in game.

I honestly don't care how it works biologically, just that whatever daughters I have would be just as loved as if they were human.

As for why... well, Liara.

Which is fine. (although you do realize that you won't live long comparably to make much of an impact on your daughters right?)

However I have to ask, why does Liara suddenly make the species you have grown around, learned from, essentially your social group from the very beginning more important? Love is love yes, but what about your family? Even earth born shep had his/her own human social groups, ranging from the human gangs to the human miltary.

Not knocking liara, or even the Asari. Just curious how a lifes worth of social groups gets outed by one person, who doesn't even accounts for a year of your life.

[SandTrout]

Except the extent to which your tendencies are passed on are more defined by how you raise the child than the genetics you give it, so those tendencies of 'not putting your own species first' would likely pass on to the asari child even though it has none of your genetics

Even better! That way it is the Asari that are more likely to destroy themselves, rather than the Humans. Works for me.

Modifié par SandTrout, 21 août 2011 - 09:02 .

[Nashiktal]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm looking at population numbers, nothing more. I feel no political affiliation with my species in any case; my genes don't determine my allegiance.

Your ability to reproduce and create a future for yourself beyond your own lifetime should, though. A healty individual looks after themselves first, then their immediate family, then social groups that are progressively larger.

If you try to take on too large of a scale before caring to the smaller scale, then you will likely find your efforts wasted because an individual's influence is diluted more and more with each larger social group.

I've said it numerous times. Even though I don't believe the argument is valid, if it was, I'm reproducing with an asari. They would consist of my immediate family, and then I'd take on whichever larger social groups were in more need.

Which is actually great. It's probably best that your Shepard's tendencies will not be passed to the next generation.

 Except the extent to which your tendencies are passed on are more defined by how you raise the child than the genetics you give it, so those tendencies of 'not putting your own species first' would likely pass on to the asari child even though it has none of your genetics

Eh, that depends on how old the child is before you die. We have no idea the state of sheps health, however even assuming that shep lives to be of ripe old age, she will die sometime in the childs early life.

We can't know when exactly without knowing the proper span of an asari's child life, but we definitely know its before the asari is a teenager. With that... We don't even know if the tendancies will live on without more information.

[TobyHasEyes]

SandTrout wrote...

Except the extent to which your tendencies are passed on are more defined by how you raise the child than the genetics you give it, so those tendencies of 'not putting your own species first' would likely pass on to the asari child even though it has none of your genetics

Even better! That way it is the Asari that are more likely to destroy themselves, rather than the Humans. Works for me.

 Or, who knows, maybe the tendency to not put your own species first would not be the insta-kill everyone here thinks it is, and could lead to an improved galaxy?

 If there was a future galactic situation of enjoyment, peace and respect, in which due to their reproductive status all asari had outbred all other races which has peacably passed into extinction, I wouldn't care

 Just because they have those reproductive abilities, does not mean they have malicious intent to dominate the galaxy

 - Ensues the statement that I am a weak member of my species, claims that as I state that anything beyond selfish motivations exist means I must be naive despite your own view being unfalsifiable and unverifiable, and the argument descends into another waste of time

[SandTrout]

In regards to Liara, she is not exactly a shining example of an emotionally healthy person. She attached herself emotionally to the first person willing to listen to her. After Shepard dies, she becomes obsessed with finding his/her body, just to turn it over to an extremely shady organization, and spend the next two years hunting down the Shadow Broker because he took Feron, whom she had only known for a matter of days, captive. After Shepard returns and helps her find Feron, she then becomes obsessed with running the Shadow Broker's network.

She's about as emotionally healthy as Jack.

[Nashiktal]

It wouldn't be an instakill for the asari, because their survival is stacked WITH them. Not because putting another species first is not destructive or whatever.

The asari can afford to make sacrifices, humanity? Less so.

If we were arguing for the destruction of the flotilla, to the destruction of earth it would make more sense to save the flotilla.

The destruction of Thessia compared to the destruction of earth? Earth needs to be saved.

I just don't see how people arn't getting it. The asari can survive if only one individual survives, most other species needs a sample size in the thousands to maintain a viable population.

The asari can live for around a thousand  years, and reproduce for most of it. Others species are lucky to hit 100, and are only viable for about half that.

The asari can reproduce with anything that has a nervous system. Other species have to reproduce within their own species, and usually of a different gender at that.

The asari have had a few thousand years to establish colonies, LONG before even discovering the citadel!

No matter how you stack it, the asari would be fine without Thessia. While humanity is far more in danger of being destroyed in the reaper invasion if they lose earth, especially since the alliance seat of government is the only gateway to earth!

Modifié par Nashiktal, 21 août 2011 - 09:13 .

[Dave of Canada]

Nashiktal wrote...

I just don't see how people arn't getting it.

People see sacrifice as a bad thing for some reason or another.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 21 août 2011 - 09:14 .