1104 réponses à ce sujet

[SpiffySquee]

Izhalezan wrote...

self·ishadjective
1.[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)">devoted to or caring only for oneself]with[/color] one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

Choosing your own race over another simply because it affects you the most is the very definition of selfish. You are ignoring the needs and concerns of other species simply because you feel stronger attachment to humans. Saving my child over a random person is also selfish becasue I am only thinking about myself and what is important to me. perhaps you should look up the definition of a word before calling people idiots for using them correctly. 

The rest of humanity isn't my property or something, I don't see how chosing to save one over the other is selfish.

Choosing Humans over another simply because you ARE human and you feel a greater attachment to them is selfish. He says any human would save humanity becasue it is their own race. This means he believes that  I would save humans becasue the loss of humans would affect me more than the loss of Asari. That is selfish becasue I am only concerned with my own interests.

[RAF1940]

Siansonea II wrote...

Let's see, while Babylonians, Romans, Etruscans etc., were fighting amongst themselves over various stupid things, the asari were discovering the Citadel and founding a galactic society that has existed more or less peacefully for almost three thousand years. Yeah, I'm more impressed with the asari than humanity.

Moot point. Asari evolving faster (keep in mind we don't know the conditions on Thessia; something could cause their advancement) doesn't make them more impressive.

Or think about the raloi. They've advanced from 1960s technology to ME-level tech just because they saw a cruiser. How do we know the asari didn't discover something prothean?

[RAF1940]

Ferris95 wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...

Ferris95 wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...

Ferris95 wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...

Ferris95 wrote...

• Advanced biotics
• Easy breeding
• Long life spans
• Diplomatic outlook
• Advanced technology

Take your pick. :happy:

Advanced biotics - only useful to asari

Easy breeding - only useful to asari since it produces more asari

Long life spans - only useful to asari

Diplomatic outlook - boring

Advanced technology - only useful to asari, since if they shared everyone would have the same technology.

Oh I know it's only useful for asari, but I figure their pretty much the best race in the Mass Effect 'verse.

I think it's the salarians. They're awesome (except for the extremely short lifespan).

Short life is the problem, asari life very long. Would make it easier for the galaxy to restablize with them still running about.

I've always wondered this: if salarians only live 40 years with 22nd century technology, how long did they live when they were "cave-salarians"?

10 years?

Day 1: Birth
Day 2: Learning society's rules
Week 3: Breeding
Week 4: Death

And that's if your healthy.:happy:

Sounds fun.

[RAF1940]

Luc0s wrote...
...THEY would NEVER do the same for humanity.

This is a good point. I don't think any asari would sacrifice their species.

[bobdooly]

Siansonea II wrote...

Let's see, while Babylonians, Romans, Etruscans etc., were fighting amongst themselves over various stupid things, the asari were discovering the Citadel and founding a galactic society that has existed more or less peacefully for almost three thousand years. Yeah, I'm more impressed with the asari than humanity.

And what have they done since finding an ancient relic and declaring themselves rulers of the galaxy by default? Nothing. What has humanity accomplished during one Asari lifetime? Progressed from using donkeys to carry supplies to making an interstellar civilization. Yeah, I'm more impressed with humanity than the asari.

[Xilizhra]

Luc0s wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

This means he believes that  I would save humans becasue the loss of humans would affect me more than the loss of Asari. That is selfish becasue I am only concerned with my own interests.

I do not BELIEVE that, I KNOW that. Without humanity you lose the ability to procreate. And that's basically what live is all about, to procreate and preserve your genes. That's how nature works. And you're going right against your nature. You're unnatural.

According to your logic, you are selfish too, because you are also only concerned with your own interests, which is the asari race.

I'll make my own definition for what my life is all about, not your antiquated gene-based morality.

[didymos1120]

Luc0s wrote...

Next to your asari daughter and wife, I'm 100% you would (should) save humanity over the asari.

You know, you really should stop telling other people what they would or wouldn't do.  The fact of the matter is we don't have some "save the species" instinct.  We have a variety of fairly generalized instincts and behaviors which are there because they help our genes propogate, not some abstract notion of "the human race".   That's something one has to acquire.

[RAF1940]

bobdooly wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Let's see, while Babylonians, Romans, Etruscans etc., were fighting amongst themselves over various stupid things, the asari were discovering the Citadel and founding a galactic society that has existed more or less peacefully for almost three thousand years. Yeah, I'm more impressed with the asari than humanity.

And what have they done since finding an ancient relic and declaring themselves rulers of the galaxy by default? Nothing. What has humanity accomplished during one Asari lifetime? Progressed from using donkeys to carry supplies to making an interstellar civilization. Yeah, I'm more impressed with humanity than the asari.

Another good point.

[Quole]

Yes.

[SpiffySquee]

Luc0s wrote...

It's EXACTLY the opposite.

You ignore the needs and concerns of humanity simply because you feel stronger attachment to the asari. You think they're better, so that's why you save them over us. I'm sure the asari will be very grateful and at the same time point and laugh at you how you basically doom your own species for the asari while THEY would NEVER do the same for humanity.

You should read my original post again. I said I viewed them as equal and would save whoever I had the greater chance of saving. I never said I felt a stronger attachment to the Asari. I said I would not have a stronger attachment to humans just becasue I was one.

SpiffySquee wrote...

Saving my child over a random person is also selfish becasue I am only thinking about myself and what is important to me. perhaps you should look up the definition of a word before calling people idiots for using them correctly. 

How is saving your own child selfish? Are you insane? Of course my child is more important than me! But does that make me SELFISH? Heck no!

Acording to your logic, I should ALWAYS pick the option of what is the least important to me, or else I risk being selfish. How does that make sense?


Why do YOU pick the asari over humanity? Because the asari are more important TO YOU! That's why. So how am I more selfish than you are?

You really need to look at the definition of the word... seriously. You are selfish for choosing your child over a random person. Period. You are more concerned with your own pain and personal bonds than the pain and bonds of the random persons family. That is selfish. Would I be selfish too in that case? Of course. But, as I said, the bond with your own child, is not the same as an entire race. What if my child was asari? should I save the random human?

Again, I never said I cared about Asari more. that was you putting words into my mouth. I said I viewed both species as equally deserving to be saved.

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 21 août 2011 - 02:24 .

[RAF1940]

Xilizhra wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

This means he believes that  I would save humans becasue the loss of humans would affect me more than the loss of Asari. That is selfish becasue I am only concerned with my own interests.

I do not BELIEVE that, I KNOW that. Without humanity you lose the ability to procreate. And that's basically what live is all about, to procreate and preserve your genes. That's how nature works. And you're going right against your nature. You're unnatural.

According to your logic, you are selfish too, because you are also only concerned with your own interests, which is the asari race.

I'll make my own definition for what my life is all about, not your antiquated gene-based morality.

I think he's coming at this from a scientific angle. And, scientifically, he is right.

[RAF1940]

[quote]SpiffySquee wrote...


[quote]SpiffySquee wrote...

Saving my child over a random person is also selfish becasue I am only thinking about myself and what is important to me. perhaps you should look up the definition of a word before calling people idiots for using them correctly.  

[/quote]

How is saving your own child selfish? Are you insane? Of course my child is more important than me! But does that make me SELFISH? Heck no!

Acording to your logic, I should ALWAYS pick the option of what is the least important to me, or else I risk being selfish. How does that make sense?


Why do YOU pick the asari over humanity? Because the asari are more important TO YOU! That's why. So how am I more selfish than you are?
[/quote]

You really need to look at the definition of the word... seriously. You are selfish for choosing your child over a random person. Period. You are more concerned with your own pain and personal bonds than the pain and bonds of the random persons family. That is selfish. Would I be selfish too in that case? Of course. But, as I said, the bond with your own child, is not the same as an entire race. What if my child was asari? should I save the random human?

Again, I never said I cared about Asari more. that was you putting words into my mouth. I said I viewed both species as equally deserving to be saved.

[/quote]


...did you just argue with yourself?

[Xilizhra]

RAF1940 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

This means he believes that  I would save humans becasue the loss of humans would affect me more than the loss of Asari. That is selfish becasue I am only concerned with my own interests.

I do not BELIEVE that, I KNOW that. Without humanity you lose the ability to procreate. And that's basically what live is all about, to procreate and preserve your genes. That's how nature works. And you're going right against your nature. You're unnatural.

According to your logic, you are selfish too, because you are also only concerned with your own interests, which is the asari race.

I'll make my own definition for what my life is all about, not your antiquated gene-based morality.

I think he's coming at this from a scientific angle. And, scientifically, he is right.

"Should" is entirely morality-based. The glory of sapience is that we don't have to be led around by genes.

You do realize that our morality is based on that "gene-based morality", right? Our "gene-based morality" is the very foundation of every single morality there is today in human society.

I never said that my life is all about procreation, but it is the foundation of life.

Sure, I have my own beliefs, philosophies, moral values and what not, but I do realize that somewhere deep inside me it's all build around my primal instrinct, the primal instrinct to survive and the primal instinct to procreate.

You're ignoring that I am procreating in this scenario anyway.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 août 2011 - 02:23 .

[Zaxares]

I'll wait to see what the situation is in ME3 before making my decision. It seems likely that we won't be able to save everyone, in which case I already have a few races slated to be the "sacrificial lambs":

1. The batarians. In all honesty, this is likely to be a decision out of our hands anyway. The Reapers first arrive in batarian space, which means that by the time the Council races can organise their defenses and mount a counter-offensive, the batarian systems are likely to be all but destroyed and/or indoctrinated. Without any way to tell which batarians have been compromised, the safest solution would simply to abandon the batarians to their fate. (Or at least, quarantine their systems for a decade or two until the neural degeneration caused by indoctrination manifests itself.)

Batarians obviously exist in systems other than batarian space (you see lots of them in Omega and on various uncharted worlds working as mercenaries), so it's likely that even if the Hegemony was wiped out completely, the race wouldn't be completely extinct.

2. The krogan. Blessed with their high fecundity (coupled with the fact that the krogan HAVE evolved past the genophage once before, AND Maelon/Mordin could potentially have the genophage cure on their hands), it would only take a handful of krogan to completely repopulate the entire species. A population of as low as 500 would be enough to maintain genetic diversity, which again, could probably be found from the krogan scattered about on various worlds. Not to mention that if the krogan were nearly wiped out, it would eliminate any long-term issues such as massive krogan overpopulation for at least a couple of centuries.

3. The geth. This one is driven primarily due to my knowledge of how geth "society" works. As long as the geth "hubs" remain safe and intact, the geth cannot truly die. Therefore, the first thing to do is to make backups of all the geth hubs and seed them on several remote, hidden locations throughout the galaxy. The geth can then wade into battle without fear; even if they're all annihilated, all it would take is for some survivors to return to their backup locations and restart the server. The geth can then slowly reconstruct their mobile platforms as necessary as part of the clean-up and reconstruction work.

This also has the added benefit of keeping the geth hubs hidden from any organic races who might wish to take advantage of their weakened state to try to exterminate them completely.

[RAF1940]

[bobdooly]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

It's EXACTLY the opposite.

You ignore the needs and concerns of humanity simply because you feel stronger attachment to the asari. You think they're better, so that's why you save them over us. I'm sure the asari will be very grateful and at the same time point and laugh at you how you basically doom your own species for the asari while THEY would NEVER do the same for humanity.

You should read my original post again. I said I viewed them as equal and would save whoever I had the greater chance of saving. I never said I felt a stronger attachment to the Asari. I said I would not have a stronger attachment to humans just becasue I was one.

SpiffySquee wrote...

Saving my child over a random person is also selfish becasue I am only thinking about myself and what is important to me. perhaps you should look up the definition of a word before calling people idiots for using them correctly.  

How is saving your own child selfish? Are you insane? Of course my child is more important than me! But does that make me SELFISH? Heck no!

Acording to your logic, I should ALWAYS pick the option of what is the least important to me, or else I risk being selfish. How does that make sense?


Why do YOU pick the asari over humanity? Because the asari are more important TO YOU! That's why. So how am I more selfish than you are?

You really need to look at the definition of the word... seriously. You are selfish for choosing your child over a random person. Period. You are more concerned with your own pain and personal bonds than the pain and bonds of the random persons family. That is selfish. Would I be selfish too in that case? Of course. But, as I said, the bond with your own child, is not the same as an entire race. What if my child was asari? should I save the random human?

Again, I never said I cared about Asari more. that was you putting words into my mouth. I said I viewed both species as equally deserving to be saved.

This. When it's a simple "you or me" and the only difference is who walks out, You pick yourself becuase They only matter as much as you do. Of course, I'm assuming humanity and asari are exactly analogue in the given scenario from OP.

EDITED TO FIX QUOTE

Modifié par bobdooly, 21 août 2011 - 02:28 .