450 réponses à ce sujet

[KotorEffect3]

You renegades do realize that it is going to be hard to set up your evil empire when earth is getting stomped by the reapers.

[SandTrout]

mauro2222 wrote...

Self interest is ok, I told you that xD As long you don't prejudice somebody or you intervene with the liberty of others is ok. When that self interest turns to being selfish is when the problem appears, such as allowing a whole species to go extinct just because it doesn`t involves your "interest" or your species "interests"

*Cough*Mourning War*Cough*

I agree that within a society, its members should not be allowed to unduely infringe uppon the rights of other members. However, when dealing with forces outside of that defined society, you cannot presume that anyone else will care in the least about your rights. Those rights which your society protects for its members must be protected from outside forces.

I actually disagree with the OP's methods of ensuring human dominance. It is unwise to allow an asset that can be used against the Reapers to burn w/o gaining a comparable strategic asset. Even after the war, I figure that cooperating with the Asari will yeild better results than attempting a conquest. I'm not ruling out the possibilty, though, if the circumstances fit.

[Saaziel]

SandTrout wrote...
Self-interest is what keeps species alive. Without it, the only possibility is extinction.

I'm not sure if this is a matter of Real life or Mass effect.

That said ,the current predicament our species is facing (Some of which could very well put in jeopardy our survival ) : Global weather changes , Economic ruin , Ecological disasters & Biological extinction (Specifically overfishing) and so on and so forth... Are , by in large , due to this blind faith in self interest.

That said , its late here and i don't wish to debate this point further. I'll try and read up your reply , i cannot guarantee i'll answer back

Modifié par Saaziel, 22 août 2011 - 04:17 .

[SandTrout]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

You renegades do realize that it is going to be hard to set up your evil empire when earth is getting stomped by the reapers.

Much easier if the Asari homeworld is devastated, though.

I am a Paragon though, and consider overtly hostile attempts at empire to be overly hazardous.

[SandTrout]

Saaziel wrote...

SandTrout wrote...
Self-interest is what keeps species alive. Without it, the only possibility is extinction.

I'm not sure if this is a matter of Real life or Mass effect.

Both. ME was based on Drew K. and the other writers' best estimates of human development as extrapolated from history and current events.

That said ,the current predicament our species is facing (Some of which could very well put in jeopardy our survival ) : Global weather changes , Economic ruin , Ecological disasters & Biological extinction (Specifically overfishing) and so on and so forth... Are , by in large , due to this blind faith in self interest.

That said , its late here and i don't wish to debate this point further. I'll try and read up your reply , i cannot guarantee i'll answer back

I'm not going to try to debunk the individual points, but while self-interest can result in some negative consequences, the net progress is positive. Humans live longer, healtier lives and areas are capable of supporting greater numbers of humans than ever before in our history, due to the progress made by self-interested individuals.

[Kaiser Shepard]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

You renegades do realize that it is going to be hard to set up your evil empire when earth is getting stomped by the reapers.

Not really, as the balance of power shifts more easily in times of war.

[Nashiktal]

If it came to earth or thessia, earth is priority.

When humanity has colonies spread amongst the stars that our around 1000 years old that have similar population to their homeworld, then earth could be sacrificed if need be.

As it is now, the asari would still be strong population wise, economically wise, and probably even come out stronger.

If humanity were to lose earth, thats the majority of our population. Most colonies are barely the population of modern day nations.

Also, the asari could theoretically be a viable species, even if there was only one individual. One asari lives to be 1000, can reproduce for most of it, and can reproduce with anything that has a nervous system.

[Alexnssilent]

DEATH TO THE BLUE HEATHENS

[CrazyCatDude]

 But, if you let the Reapers wipe out the Asari, there will be a galaxy wide stripper shortage.  My god man, won't someone please think of the stippers?

[SandTrout]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

 But, if you let the Reapers wipe out the Asari, there will be a galaxy wide stripper shortage.  My god man, won't someone please think of the stippers?

We are thinking of the strippers. Well, the human ones, at least. Their wages will skyrocket as their craft becomes more scarce!

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

SandTrout wrote...

CrazyCatDude wrote...

 But, if you let the Reapers wipe out the Asari, there will be a galaxy wide stripper shortage.  My god man, won't someone please think of the stippers?

We are thinking of the strippers. Well, the human ones, at least. Their wages will skyrocket as their craft becomes more scarce!

It's also why we have to save the quarians man.

[BSN89000]

SandTrout wrote...

That said ,the current predicament our species is facing (Some of which could very well put in jeopardy our survival ) : Global weather changes , Economic ruin , Ecological disasters & Biological extinction (Specifically overfishing) and so on and so forth... Are , by in large , due to this blind faith in self interest.

That said , its late here and i don't wish to debate this point further. I'll try and read up your reply , i cannot guarantee i'll answer back

I'm not going to try to debunk the individual points, but while self-interest can result in some negative consequences, the net progress is positive. Humans live longer, healtier lives and areas are capable of supporting greater numbers of humans than ever before in our history, due to the progress made by self-interested individuals.

Dear Texan, contemplate the "Tuchanka" and "Rakkana" scenarios, please.

[SandTrout]

BSN89000 wrote...

Dear Texan, contemplate the "Tuchanka" and "Rakkana" scenarios, please.

Tuchanka a fictional result of a species failing to recognize what is in its self-interest.

I'm not familiar with whatever Rakkana you're refering to, and my searches have come up with nothing.

[Seboist]

SandTrout wrote...

BSN89000 wrote...

Dear Texan, contemplate the "Tuchanka" and "Rakkana" scenarios, please.

Tuchanka a fictional result of a species failing to recognize what is in its self-interest.

I'm not familiar with whatever Rakkana you're refering to, and my searches have come up with nothing.

Rakkana is the Drell homeworld.

[SandTrout]

Seboist wrote...

Rakkana is the Drell homeworld.

Ah, ok. In that case, it is an example of what happens when a sapient species reaches equilibrium with its enviroment. I can understand a population crash of, say 25% of the population, but how it is described as threatening the extinction of the species seems rather implausible considering population patterns of other species.

Self-interest has little to do with it.

Modifié par SandTrout, 22 août 2011 - 08:31 .

[TobyHasEyes]

SandTrout wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Self-interest is what keeps species alive. Without it, the only possibility is extinction.

Example?

USSR, Communist China, Cuba, Tibet, North Korea.

Now, these are not true examples of an absense of self interest, because I cannot think of any that lasted long enough to be noticed, but they are examples of the rusults of a culture that suppresses self-interest as evil.

The USSR killed more of their own people than any other in history that I am aware of, excluding Communist China, which is going to have severe demographic problems because of the 1-child policy.

Cuba and North Korea have practically no economy, military, or political clout.

Tibet fell to China and has been brutally oppressed since. At least part of their fall to the Chinese is due to their buhdist philosophy of non-aggression, resulting in no feasable military.

The fact that no species evolves sucessfully to have altruistic instincts also speaks volumes for the value of self-interest in terms of survival. Absolutely every species on earth is self interested, without exception.

 Most higher level primates (apes and ourselves) have evolved to have altruistic instincts, at least within the species (indeed if altruism is simply defined as putting others first then ants, bees and other colony-based insects have 'altruistic' instincts)

[_FLANDERS]

Save there home world, you will need them in the end.

[Made Nightwing]

Cool. So, after the Reaper War, it appears that the Paragons will be fighting a War of Independence from the Renegades' empire. We will probably lose, due to the Renegades ruthlessness, but to quote Malcolm Reynolds:

We may be on the losing side, but you'll never convince us that it is the wrong one.

[Fixers0]

FLANDERS wrote...

Save there home world, you will need them in the end.

No, they are nothing more but a handy distraction for the Reapers while the Alliance is cooking up a weapon to defeat them.

[Arijharn]

But, isn't saving your species in itself altruistic, because it isn't about you per say, because there's more humans out there than those you know or even (dare I say it), care about?

Besides, why on Earth would the Asari sacrifice themselves or Thessia to 'save' humanity and/or Earth? Even if it's to 'stop' the Reapers, can't that be considered 'selfish' then due to the fact that invariably they're saving themselves too by their actions?

[oOmpie]

Hahaha, nice theory. However, the Reapers arrive at your own doorstep. Just curious how you intend to convince them to move to Thessia instead?

[KotorEffect3]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Cool. So, after the Reaper War, it appears that the Paragons will be fighting a War of Independence from the Renegades' empire. We will probably lose, due to the Renegades ruthlessness, but to quote Malcolm Reynolds:

We may be on the losing side, but you'll never convince us that it is the wrong one.

My canon  paragon soldier has a widow,  I am sure he will do fine against any renegades that come after him.