450 réponses à ce sujet

[ddv.rsa]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I most certainly agree and will choose the options that will ensure Human hegemony in a post-reaper galaxy. Weakening the Asari is crucial, especially since Humanity will be severily weakened after the destruction of Earth.

Did the Reapers build a Death Star?

Anyway, I'd say weakening the Turians is more important. With Palaven already under attack, there might even be an option to abandon it.

[TobyHasEyes]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Committing a galactic scale genocide because of some theory that sex with hot alien spaces babes might mean that there's only 50,000,000,000 rather than 100,000,000,000 humans in 2000 years seems more than a bit nuts.  Particularly since we could just choose to have more babies, if we really thought population growth was an important objective for our species.

Population growth is everything. We need a high population to settle many worlds and craft a large and indispensible economy. 50 billion when we could have a 100 billion is not acceptable.

The precedent for genocide was established by the Council long ago.

Fear not though, we need not carry it out. We'll just let the Reapers do it for us.

Then we get together with the STG and engineer a virus which mutates all asari to give birth to ardat-yakshi whenever they attempt to mate with a non-asari. This will curb their cultural subversion permanently.

 Or we could work with geneticists to cure the Asari of the genetic conditions such as that which plagues 'Ardat-Yakshi' and then convince them to culturally change to breeding within their species

[KotorEffect3]

I had a feeling Saphra would like this topic.

[Dean_the_Young]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

What is the galaxy's most important resource? Element Zero.

Where is this resource most concentrated? Thessia.

This is the cornerstone of the Asari dominance of Galactic economy and politics - they can single-handed control the price of Element Zero via effective monopoly. This is also very likely the environmental cause for the Asari's abundant Biotic potential, and the material source of their cultural arrogance and sense of superiority. If Humanity take over Thessia, all those advantages will be ours. Now is a best time to do that ever.

How can Humanity take control of this resource rich location? Simple. Sacrifice the Asari to defeat the Reapers. All of them. Let Thessia be burnt do the ground. In the resulting post-war power vacuum, Humanity can rightfully resettle Thessia, as the vanquisher of the Reapers and the savior of the Galaxy.

Karl Marx had summarized that all wars are fought for economic reasons. The Carthaginian Empire fought to monopolize the trade of dyes in the Mediterranean. The Dutch Republic fought to monopolize the trade of spices in the East Indies. A certain country in the early 21st century fought to monopolize the trade of oil in the Middle East. Controlling an important resource is essential for the independence and prosperity of a nation.

So fellow Humans, now is our time to take our rightful place in the Galaxy. In the immortal words of Cato the Elder,

Thessia Delenda Est!

Why destroy the planet when you can raze the Library?

[Wulfram]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Population growth is everything.

That's why Liberia, Burundi, Afghanistan, Western Sahara, East Timor, Niger, Eritrea, Uganda, DR Congo and the Palestinian territories are recognised as the 10 most successful states in the world.

We need a high population to settle many worlds and craft a large and indispensible economy. 50 billion when we could have a 100 billion is not acceptable.

Why?  How does that make our lives better?

Anyway, we could breed far faster than the Asari seem to even if half of humanity were choosing Asari mates.  And if we really thought it was important we could give incentives for having multiple children, or even limit access to contraceptives.

The precedent for genocide was established by the Council long ago.

The Rachni were indoctrinated and refused to negotiate or surrender.  While the Asari just want to have sex with us.

Fear not though, we need not carry it out. We'll just let the Reapers do it for us.

Allowing an enemy, who actually wants to wipe us out now, to destroy their 2nd most powerful foes and gain control of vast reserves of eezo because of a concern about how many babies we might be having 2000 years in the future.  Yes, that makes sense.

[Xilizhra]

If asari culture subsumes human culture because humans are willing... who gives a crap? Worry about things being taken from unwilling people before you add genocide to a self-declared culture war.

[Dean_the_Young]

Wulfram wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Population growth is everything.

That's why Liberia, Burundi, Afghanistan, Western Sahara, East Timor, Niger, Eritrea, Uganda, DR Congo and the Palestinian territories are recognised as the 10 most successful states in the world.

Saphara's exageration not withstanding, population growth is one of the key factors between powers of similar scales. Population growth is not only critical to economic/military potential at the moment, but also in maintaing a healthy economy.

By this time in 30/40 years, Russia and Europe and Japan are going to be having severe problems brought about by demographic imbalances of old-vs-young.

We need a high population to settle many worlds and craft a large and indispensible economy. 50 billion when we could have a 100 billion is not acceptable.

Why?  How does that make our lives better?

For starters, it enables better economy, technological progression, security, and cultural diversity/sub-culture differentiation.

You have a better chance to afford better things that you like with more people who share your interests.

Anyway, we could breed far faster than the Asari seem to even if half of humanity were choosing Asari mates.

This I agree with...

  And if we really thought it was important we could give incentives for having multiple children, or even limit access to contraceptives.

And this I don't, first and foremost for plausibility. Abortions have been going on for those who wanted them long before they were legal and accepted: it's like Russian efforts to end its alcohol epidemic.

Likewise, modern cultural trends seem to show that it's incredibly hard to raise birth rates once they've fallen. Incentives don't cut it by any means. (Again, see Russia. Or Singapore.)

The precedent for genocide was established by the Council long ago.

The Rachni were indoctrinated and refused to negotiate or surrender.  While the Asari just want to have sex with us.

Saphara could also have been referring to the Quarians (Genocide by default), the Krogan (not only in the rebellions but in the re-application by Mordin), the Rachni again (Shepard).

Allowing an enemy, who actually wants to wipe us out now, to destroy their 2nd most powerful foes and gain control of vast reserves of eezo because of a concern about how many babies we might be having 2000 years in the future.  Yes, that makes sense.

Besides the question of how much the Reapers need/would benefit from those reserves (if they already have enough with them, it's just a surplus), there are plenty of military-historical examples in which letting a greater threat focus on one area can enable and even improve the chances of an overall victory.

After all, while the Reapers are focusing on the Asari, that's X reapers who are not fighting the Turian fleets elsewhere. Whereas if you drive the Reapers away from Thessia, that's X-(however many were destroyed: potentially 0) Reapers that are now free to attack the Migrant Fleet/Turian homeworld/bombard Tuchanka/etc.

Depending on how things are going at the time, saving Thessia now may well endanger us all later.

[Dean_the_Young]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Somebody has to think long term and it obviously isn't going to be you. You can't see beyond your own nose (or weeny, in this case).

Don't insult others and personalize an argument, Saphara.

[Barquiel]

Xilizhra wrote...

If asari culture subsumes human culture because humans are willing... who gives a crap? Worry about things being taken from unwilling people before you add genocide to a self-declared culture war.

Yes...Vaenia will be the reason for humanity's downfall. They must be stopped at all costs!

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

If asari culture subsumes human culture because humans are willing... who gives a crap?

People who are aware of when cultural subsumation can become unwilling. Like, say, the indegenous peoples of North America.

Might as well ask why anyone should object to supplying a drug addict with drugs.

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If asari culture subsumes human culture because humans are willing... who gives a crap?

People who are aware of when cultural subsumation can become unwilling. Like, say, the indegenous peoples of North America.

Might as well ask why anyone should object to supplying a drug addict with drugs.

Is there any precedent for asari conquering another species and forcing their culture upon them? In thousands of years?

[TobyHasEyes]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If asari culture subsumes human culture because humans are willing... who gives a crap?

People who are aware of when cultural subsumation can become unwilling. Like, say, the indegenous peoples of North America.

Might as well ask why anyone should object to supplying a drug addict with drugs.

Is there any precedent for asari conquering another species and forcing their culture upon them? In thousands of years?

 People claim that is what the Council is -yawn- and it is a bad argument, assuming that because someone is in a position of power they must want to dominate you

[Xilizhra]

People claim that is what the Council is -yawn- and it is a bad argument, assuming that because someone is in a position of power they must want to dominate you

*checks for asari monoculture*
*finds nothing*

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If asari culture subsumes human culture because humans are willing... who gives a crap?

People who are aware of when cultural subsumation can become unwilling. Like, say, the indegenous peoples of North America.

Might as well ask why anyone should object to supplying a drug addict with drugs.

Is there any precedent for asari conquering another species and forcing their culture upon them? In thousands of years?

Yes to the first, and since cultural subsumission and adoption isn't the sort of thing that you still dwell on centuries later...

I mean, I'm not still dwelling on the Roman conquest of Europe much and the huge butterflies in history that's had on the development of culture. Once your subsummed, you tend not to care anymore because, well, assimilation. And we do know that the Asari make cultural export a priority of their foreign policy.

[Wulfram]

Inventing nonsensical theories which fly in the face of the available evidence is not thinking long term. You're ignoring the reality of the setting to concoct a nonsensical scenario which doesn't in fact seem at all problematic even if it did somehow come to pass.

Plus, the long term is rather irrelevant if we're all dead because we've been turned into reaper goo.

[Dean_the_Young]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If asari culture subsumes human culture because humans are willing... who gives a crap?

People who are aware of when cultural subsumation can become unwilling. Like, say, the indegenous peoples of North America.

Might as well ask why anyone should object to supplying a drug addict with drugs.

Is there any precedent for asari conquering another species and forcing their culture upon them? In thousands of years?

 People claim that is what the Council is -yawn- and it is a bad argument, assuming that because someone is in a position of power they must want to dominate you

The Asari are paternalists. It's the cornerstone of their politics and the Council system they created. The Council does seek to expand influence over other parties, and does pursue it's own interest above those of others.

[Xilizhra]

Yes to the first, and since cultural subsumission and adoption isn't the sort of thing that you still dwell on centuries later...

I mean, I'm not still dwelling on the Roman conquest of Europe much and the huge butterflies in history that's had on the development of culture. Once your subsummed, you tend not to care anymore because, well, assimilation. And we do know that the Asari make cultural export a priority of their foreign policy.

Then if the asari do try to force us into their culture at gunpoint, I'll resist then. Otherwise, I'll ask others to give it a rest.

[TobyHasEyes]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If asari culture subsumes human culture because humans are willing... who gives a crap?

People who are aware of when cultural subsumation can become unwilling. Like, say, the indegenous peoples of North America.

Might as well ask why anyone should object to supplying a drug addict with drugs.

Is there any precedent for asari conquering another species and forcing their culture upon them? In thousands of years?

Yes to the first, and since cultural subsumission and adoption isn't the sort of thing that you still dwell on centuries later...

I mean, I'm not still dwelling on the Roman conquest of Europe much and the huge butterflies in history that's had on the development of culture. Once your subsummed, you tend not to care anymore because, well, assimilation. And we do know that the Asari make cultural export a priority of their foreign policy.

 Its not exactly a horrifying spectacle though is it? Their foreign policy isn't to invade a planet/race, kill many inhabitants and insist those who remain name themselves as asari culture on pain of death..

 They introduce a species to the Mass Relay framework, explain what the Council is, and invite them to join. That includes exposure to Asari culture, horror of horros, but its hardly cruel and oppressive

 If they choose not to, then they are free to pursue their own ends, but they will not have the Council races protecting them nor will they share in Council resources

[TobyHasEyes]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If asari culture subsumes human culture because humans are willing... who gives a crap?

People who are aware of when cultural subsumation can become unwilling. Like, say, the indegenous peoples of North America.

Might as well ask why anyone should object to supplying a drug addict with drugs.

Is there any precedent for asari conquering another species and forcing their culture upon them? In thousands of years?

 People claim that is what the Council is -yawn- and it is a bad argument, assuming that because someone is in a position of power they must want to dominate you

The Asari are paternalists. It's the cornerstone of their politics and the Council system they created. The Council does seek to expand influence over other parties, and does pursue it's own interest above those of others.

 The Council has a series of conventions built up to avoid the kind of conflicts it has dealt with in the past. Those who are willing and able to put the needs of all the races in Council space above their own narrow interests are invited to join

 Those who join have to obey those rules which dictate peace, that is as paternalistic as they get. A government using its power is not always an example of paternalism. Those outside of Council space are not attacked or subdued.. 

Modifié par TobyHasEyes, 21 août 2011 - 01:27 .

[Dariustwinblade]

Even TIM prefers sleeping with Asari Matriarchs rather than humans. He slept with a MATRIARCH TWICE. While he only slept with the galaxy's hottest humans once.

After the Matriarch he stopped sleeping with people. The Asari even got to the leader of most xenophobic organisation to sleep with them.