450 réponses à ce sujet

[SojournerN7]

After the attack on Eden Prime, several Terminus Colonies, and the Reapers wiping the face of the Earth, I doubt Humanity will be in any position to take Thessia. Actually, I'm kinda hoping humanity will get the short end of the stick.

That gives a lot more room for humanity's struggle in the Mass Effect universe and potential for more compelling story. I'm tired of the "Humans are the most abundant and adaptive race" cliche.

[Luigitornado]

Wouldn't it be funny if we play as an Batarian solider in the next ME Series trying to overcome a human dominant galaxy?

[Xilizhra]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Is there any precedent for asari conquering another species and forcing their culture upon them? In thousands of years?

They've spread to thousands of systems, having the most colonies among all Council speices.

So none of those systems had any indigenous sentient life forms. Unlike Humans, who keep running into Turians, Batarians, Vorcha, and various aliens in their colonization efforts.

It's like looking at the Spanish Empire at 1700 without knowning any previous history of it. Wow, the Americas must be culturally Spanish since the beginning of time. The Spanish are such benevolent and peaceful colonizers who spread their influence through nothing but the sheer power of their culture. Bravo.

Asari are an older spacefaring race than all of them. They seem to be pretty much the oldest, as a matter of fact.

Everything about what the asari do is explicitly stated in the codex. Including the stuff about cultural subversion and using their longevity to outlive competitors.

I still find it somewhat difficult to see how this hurts anyone.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 août 2011 - 01:57 .

[Golden Owl]

Luigitornado wrote...

Wouldn't it be funny if we play as an Batarian solider in the next ME Series trying to overcome a human dominant galaxy?

Please no......I can't make custom eye candy out of that......

[Luigitornado]

robarcool wrote...

Also, I think that this thread must be destroyed. Enough of these hate threads already.

UGH! An actual interesting conversation?

Go to the romance board and talk about your love for Asari there.

[Last Vizard]

Sure, you can never have too much ezo.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still find it somewhat difficult to see how this hurts anyone.

I explained how already.

Then it seems you did it badly. Could you give it another shot?

[Jessihatt]

I wouldn't let it burn to the ground, just so humanity can sit upon all the eezo.
But if asari and any other species are as weakened as humanity after the war, I won't complain.
I don't want my species being the only one with significant casualties for the simple reason of not wanting humans being taken advantage of.

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I bet we paragons end up saving more humans than the renegades do since we will be coming back to earth with a bigger army.

How many would die after the war due to your foolishness, though?

"Oh hey turians, you want to invade us? No worries, bro. Just come help us out! :D"

With Renegades, there won't be any other races left because of their racist ignorance.

And I just love how everyone completely fails to grasp the fact that the Reapers are attacking everyone. Nobody will be fit for a lasting invasion once they're done.

Especially not the turians.

[Merchant2006]

Thessia,

[kumquats]

I don't need to destroy Thessia, my Renegade has other plans. She will win this war on how many races she can blackmail and manipulate.

The council races can show humanity how thankful they are by paying war reparations to earth. Resources or Credits are both is acceptable.

But I won't hold my breath, Renegades are screwed anyway, so take as many races down with you as possible and then elope with your LI as the galaxy is thrown into chaos.

That's my plan B.

[Dean_the_Young]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 Its not exactly a horrifying spectacle though is it? Their foreign policy isn't to invade a planet/race, kill many inhabitants and insist those who remain name themselves as asari culture on pain of death..

It depends on the culture, and the context. The Asari aren't so different from us, so it isn't so bad, I agree... though I'd sooner buy influence in their assembly and make them more like us than the other way around.

But as for cultural imperialism at all, it can be. On one hand, it depends on how much you value culture in general: the death of most languages fills me with barely a reminder that it occurs, but I have a friend who is actively upset that these languages are not being learned anymore. He sees far more value in them than I get. The same can go for other aspects of culture. Cultural export is more about enjoyability than suitability: simply because something is adopted doesn't mean it's better than what's being replaced. Cultures don't really work like that.

 They introduce a species to the Mass Relay framework, explain what the Council is, and invite them to join. That includes exposure to Asari culture, horror of horros, but its hardly cruel and oppressive

It's implied that there's a good deal more cultural exporting going on, but they don't go into in the same sense that they never really go on about those Council battle stations in orbit above Tuchanka.

 If they choose not to, then they are free to pursue their own ends, but they will not have the Council races protecting them nor will they share in Council resources

This is a bit less clear, both in practice and in alternatives. The alternative to the Council is the Terminus, which has a well deserved reputation as a bad place.

Let's say you're one of those species. You are a young, puny race. If you do not adopt our laws (which you will almost certainly never be in a position to help write), pay our taxes (ditto), and open your borders to our agencies and agents who can kill any of you without legal consequence (and most likely never have any of your own appointed), you will be exiled to the place where there are entire inter-stellar crime empires that would enslave your people and steal your resources for themselves.


There's a word for circumstances like these, and that word is 'exortion.' Oh, it's entirely voluntary...

[Vyse_Fina]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

What is the galaxy's most important resource? Element Zero.

Where is this resource most concentrated? Thessia.

This is the cornerstone of the Asari dominance of Galactic economy and politics - they can single-handed control the price of Element Zero via effective monopoly. This is also very likely the environmental cause for the Asari's abundant Biotic potential, and the material source of their cultural arrogance and sense of superiority. If Humanity take over Thessia, all those advantages will be ours. Now is a best time to do that ever.

Ok since when did we take "cultural arrogance" for granted? Is Liara arrogant? Is the police officer on Illium arrogant? To once again quote Kaiden on the attitude of Aliens: "They're saints and jerks. Just like us"
It's the same as calling all Turians arrogant bastards because the Turian councilor acts like one.

Also: Why would HUMANITY take over Thessia. Apart from the reaper-invasion being the most idiotic time to start a war with the Asari, why would only humanity take over Thessia? This is in the interest of the whole galaxy and I seriously doubt the Asari would even try to keep their resources to themselves in this situation. There is simply no logic reason for doing this except for taking over the galaxy after the reaper inasion which seems to be your real plan...

iOnlySignIn wrote...
How can Humanity take control of this resource rich location? Simple. Sacrifice the Asari to defeat the Reapers. All of them. Let Thessia be burnt do the ground. In the resulting post-war power vacuum, Humanity can rightfully resettle Thessia, as the vanquisher of the Reapers and the savior of the Galaxy.

And leave the Planet with the enormous Element zero resources to the Reapers? Yeah... great strategy.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Karl Marx had summarized that all wars are fought for economic reasons. The Carthaginian Empire fought to monopolize the trade of dyes in the Mediterranean. The Dutch Republic fought to monopolize the trade of spices in the East Indies. A certain country in the early 21st century fought to monopolize the trade of oil in the Middle East. Controlling an important resource is essential for the independence and prosperity of a nation.

A lot of people summarized a lot too, that doesn't mean it should be done. Especially Marx' ideas turned out to not work in the long run at all. I'm sure provding the Reapers with enormous Ezo resources during the war would work out just as well.

iOnlySignIn wrote...
So fellow Humans, now is our time to take our rightful place in the Galaxy. In the immortal words of Cato the Elder,

Thessia Delenda Est!

Uhm yeah... All power to Terra Firma? 
Or was it Cerberus?

Modifié par Vyse_Fina, 21 août 2011 - 02:15 .

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Then it seems you did it badly. Could you give it another shot?

Yes, I suppose.


The asari espouse a cultural that encourages all asari to go forth and seek alien spouses. Of-course all species but the krogan are much shorter lived than the asari. We've seen plenty of examples of an alien mating with an asari for life. What is the result of this?

In most cases the alien will stay with the asari until they die and will produce no children. The asari herself may produce a child, but the child is asari, not alien. Even if the asari only has one child in her life-time she will in many cases stay with several alien spouses over their lifetimes. None of these spouses will have children of their own.

This means that unions with asari lower the birth-rate for the non-asari spouse's species. The asari however still have children, so their birthrate remains stable and their population continues to grow. As I'm sure you know, a lowred birthrate means a shrinking population or one that at least does not grow as fast. This is the case for any species closely associated with the asari.

It is stated in the codex that the asari plot their politics on the basis that given enough time (be it decades or centuries), their culture will blend with alien societies and make them more susceptible to asari practices and demands. Naturally this would be even easier for them because all these asari-alien unions means that the asari in those relationships will, in many cases, become defactor citizens of those other species' societies, at least a cultural and social basis.

This allows the asari to manipulate and control other species at that species expense. That species growth is stunted and their culture subverted. This allows the asari to gradually rise to a position of dominance. Influence on an international or interstellar level is a zero-sum game. You can't have influence without taking it from someone else.

Any species which competes with asari (which is any species that is not asari) thus has a vested interest in fighting this cultural and biological war the asari wage.

Another example is the Council.  The codex states the asari seek to find "balance" in politics. However balance is a broad concept. It doesn't mean everyone is equal. What it means in this case is that the galaxy is organized in such a way that the asari can decide which way to tip it. Naturally they tilt it in their favor.

The other species respect and revere the asari, so they pine for their approval. This gives the asari much sway.

Interesting, but if it doesn't involve violence or oppression, which I don't see this doing so much, then I'm not terribly interested in fighting against it.

[Wulfram]

Saphra, you're still not giving me any consequences I'd count as bad. Even if I ignored the practical realities of the setting which make the Asari outbreeding anyone nonsensical

[RyuGuitarFreak]

With threads and posts like I see here I wonder if your Shepards actually fight for survival and preservation of life. And seriously, what goods will humanity dominance bring to the galaxy if the rise to the top is by means like that? The Alliance was doing fine so far.

I'm okay with shades of grey...but wow.

Edit: It's just an observation, I'm not trying to judge anyone.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 21 août 2011 - 02:33 .

[Xilizhra]

It isn't violent, but it is oppressive. Most racism isn't violent, but we still consider it oppressive, do we not? The systematic subversion of another culture is something that most anti-racists would condemn.

I'm actually not one of them. I don't believe culture deserves protection like race does; if a culture has negative aspects, those should be expunged if possible. Ultimately, I hope that one peaceful culture can be shared by all, and the asari one seems to be the best starting template for this at the moment, if it being species-centric can fade out. I'd be more likely to work on that.

And since your means are violent, I would interfere.