148 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

FieryDove wrote...

What game are you talking about? Most of the paraphrases in DA2 when I played it were 2-3 words, maybe 4.

What I meant was poorly worded. People who want the paraphrase to list everything that's going to be said isn't going to work well because the paraphrase isn't tied to one line, picking a paraphrase can continue the conversation 3-4 lines through.

So if I highlight the sarcastic Hawke dialogue, would it list all the dialogue in the conversation, including what the other person is going to say?

[Hathur]

If you want an actual example as to why the paraphrasing system is needed / welcome, then play the original Witcher (not witcher 2).

There's something... tiresome... about using a system where you read the entire lines of dialogue, pick one.. then hear the protoganist say the same line verbatim.... it's awkward and grows tiresome "Goddamnit I just read that, I don't need to hear you say that entire line I just bloody read!".

The paraphrasing system is used because it leaves you more engaged / interested in the dialogue, since you don't know what the character is going to say already word for word.

What they really need to do is learn to make less vague / more accurate paraphrasing, as it is sometimes .. off, to put it mildly.

However, I don't EVER want to play a game again that has a voiced protagonist where we have to read & choose the entire line of dialogue, then hear the character say the whole bloody thing you just read all over again... it grows tiresome and old fast.

The full lines of text dialogue system only works in games like Dragon Age Origins where the protagonist is silent.

Think about it folks... it would get insanely redundant in a hurry... just play Witcher 1 and see.

[Teddie Sage]

I don't see anything bad about it. So no.

[darkrose]

I still prefer not having a voiced protagonist. I tried a second playthrough with a completely different male Hawke, and I really felt that having the same voice made it feel like essentially the same character. But if we have to have the voiced PC, can the dialogue actually match the options provided? I got very tired very quickly of having to save before every important conversation, knowing I'd probably have to redo it to make my Hawke sound like I wanted him to.

[Zubie]

Hathur wrote...

Think about it folks... it would get insanely redundant in a hurry... just play Witcher 1 and see.

Never bothered me. I'd take that over paraphrasing any day. Really though, this is just another reason why voiced protagonists suck to begin with.

Modifié par easygame88, 22 août 2011 - 05:24 .

[IanPolaris]

easygame88 wrote...

Hathur wrote...

Think about it folks... it would get insanely redundant in a hurry... just play Witcher 1 and see.

Never bothered me. I'd take that over paraphrasing any day. Really though, this is just another reason why voiced protagonists suck to begin with.

I don't think voiced protagonists ipso facto "suck", but rather we simply don't have the technology to simulate the dozens of realistic but different voices needed to do voiced characters justice (at least without putting near fatal contraints on the game...see DA2) without blowing the entire budget on voice acting alone.

In short, we just don't have the technology (yet) to do meaningful voiced protagonists in a cRPG while still permitting the player a broad choice of race, class, and general background.

-Polaris

[fchopin]

Brockololly wrote...

which when highlighted either give the full text response or a portion of the full text that sums up the whole response.

I want the full text not a summary of the full text.


Also the option to remove the icons.

Modifié par fchopin, 22 août 2011 - 11:04 .

[Jessihatt]

I'm used to the paraphrasing, but I would prefer the whole text thing like in DA:O but so the VA would also say it.
Which is probably more hassle than it's worth tbh.
But that's what I'd want in DA3.

[Persephone]

fchopin wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

which when highlighted either give the full text response or a portion of the full text that sums up the whole response.

I want the full text not a summary of the full text.


Also the option to remove the icons.

Full text toggle by hovering over the paraphrase and icon toggle would be sweet. And unlike DAO and DAII, don't do the Top: Nice.Middle: Snarky. Bottom: "Evil" thing.

[alex90c]

Persephone wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

which when highlighted either give the full text response or a portion of the full text that sums up the whole response.

I want the full text not a summary of the full text.


Also the option to remove the icons.

Full text toggle by hovering over the paraphrase and icon toggle would be sweet. And unlike DAO and DAII, don't do the Top: Nice.Middle: Snarky. Bottom: "Evil" thing.

^this^

I remember playing DA2 on a computer before and the dialogue options are all binded to keys - diplomatic (1), snarky (2), aggressive (3), delegate to companion (4), investigate (5), persuade (6).

So basically if I wanted to skip through dialogue I noticed I could just press 1, ESC a few times, 1, ESC a few times, 1, END and then I'd get a nice lovely outcome.

[vallore]

The system should include an option to read the actual full text answer, if the player so desires. I’m yet to see a good reason not to include it.

Anyone that prefers the voiced protagonist and is happy with the paraphrase would simply not use the option to read the full text answer. Why would he use it?

BUT

Anyone that his unhappy with the limitations of the paraphrase would use the full text option. Then, if the player wants to, he can still see the scene, and if he doesn’t, well, that’s his prerogative. He is playing the game as it works better for him.

It just a matter of preferences; the difference is that, this way, the player can actually play the game as it is more fun for him and is not forced to go a one-size-fits-all recipe that’s actually fun only for part of the audience.

[G00N3R7883]

I like the voice wheel for the most part so I would like to keep it, but I do agree with the group of fans who say an improvement should be made to make the full text lines clearer before we select our response.

I think the main problem is that some lines aren't really paraphrased, and instead the short version we pick and the long version that is spoken are actually two completely different lines. The lines where the short version and the long version are fairly similar, I have no problem with.

[Fallstar]

Deja Vu moment: http://social.biowar...1/index/7135611

And yes, I do think this. I do not think it that unreasonable to be able to choose my dialogue in an rpg. I accept that there's nothing we can do about voiced PCs, but for gods sake let me choose what I say. I have never seen a response from Bioware regarding the paraphrase system that is anything short of idiotic. I feel mostly apathetic to DA:2 at the moment, because I am pretty confidant/know that a lot of things that made DA:2 inferior in my eyes aren't going to be changed and there's nothing I can do about it.

But since Mike mentioned that he'll think about proper dialogue: There is absolutely no reason to implement a paraphrase system. I mean, since you have to write the paraphrase after the proper dialogue, they are a waste of resources for one. Also what exactly does making the player unsure when choosing dialogue accomplish? Everyone capable of signing up to this forum is capable of reading a couple of lines of text, so that can't be the issue.

I am genuinely stumped as to why this was included. If anyone can enlighten me, please do so.

[Zanallen]

DuskWarden wrote...

Deja Vu moment: http://social.biowar...1/index/7135611

And yes, I do think this. I do not think it that unreasonable to be able to choose my dialogue in an rpg. I accept that there's nothing we can do about voiced PCs, but for gods sake let me choose what I say. I have never seen a response from Bioware regarding the paraphrase system that is anything short of idiotic. I feel mostly apathetic to DA:2 at the moment, because I am pretty confidant/know that a lot of things that made DA:2 inferior in my eyes aren't going to be changed and there's nothing I can do about it.

But since Mike mentioned that he'll think about proper dialogue: There is absolutely no reason to implement a paraphrase system. I mean, since you have to write the paraphrase after the proper dialogue, they are a waste of resources for one. Also what exactly does making the player unsure when choosing dialogue accomplish? Everyone capable of signing up to this forum is capable of reading a couple of lines of text, so that can't be the issue.

I am genuinely stumped as to why this was included. If anyone can enlighten me, please do so.

It has been stated several times. It was implemented to cut down on the repetition of reading the line and then having it said back to you.

[willholt]

G00N3R7883 wrote...

I like the voice wheel for the most part so I would like to keep it, but I do agree with the group of fans who say an improvement should be made to make the full text lines clearer before we select our response.

I think the main problem is that some lines aren't really paraphrased, and instead the short version we pick and the long version that is spoken are actually two completely different lines. The lines where the short version and the long version are fairly similar, I have no problem with.

I agree...

There's a big difference between a player choosing a line and the character saying something  different that means the same, and the present system.

To use an example (no, it's not in the game)

Player chooses, ' I don't like Fruit,'

Character says,'I'm not a big fan of fruit... I don't like the taste.'


as opposed to:

Player chooses, 'I don't like fruit.'

Character says, ' My Granny slipped on a banana and killed herself'.

Which is where we are with the present level of paraphrasing in Da2!

[Fallstar]

Zanallen wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

Deja Vu moment: http://social.biowar...1/index/7135611

And yes, I do think this. I do not think it that unreasonable to be able to choose my dialogue in an rpg. I accept that there's nothing we can do about voiced PCs, but for gods sake let me choose what I say. I have never seen a response from Bioware regarding the paraphrase system that is anything short of idiotic. I feel mostly apathetic to DA:2 at the moment, because I am pretty confidant/know that a lot of things that made DA:2 inferior in my eyes aren't going to be changed and there's nothing I can do about it.

But since Mike mentioned that he'll think about proper dialogue: There is absolutely no reason to implement a paraphrase system. I mean, since you have to write the paraphrase after the proper dialogue, they are a waste of resources for one. Also what exactly does making the player unsure when choosing dialogue accomplish? Everyone capable of signing up to this forum is capable of reading a couple of lines of text, so that can't be the issue.

I am genuinely stumped as to why this was included. If anyone can enlighten me, please do so.

It has been stated several times. It was implemented to cut down on the repetition of reading the line and then having it said back to you.

I don't see how that's repetitive? Is it not the whole point of a voiced protaganist that you choose your dialogue and then listen to your character say it, whilst hoping that the voice contains the correct inflection and tone that you intended so as not to just be downright irritating?

[Requiesta De Silencia]

It's annoying sometimes, but it does make dialogue interesting. Seeing as what your character actually says is different depending on how you've shaped your character's personality it makes dialogue more interesting when you replay the game.

[fchopin]

DuskWarden wrote...

I am genuinely stumped as to why this was included. If anyone can enlighten me, please do so.

It was implemented because BW did not want you to know what your character would say.
 
It had nothing to do with not enough space for the text.

[Zanallen]

DuskWarden wrote...

I don't see how that's repetitive? Is it not the whole point of a voiced protaganist that you choose your dialogue and then listen to your character say it, whilst hoping that the voice contains the correct inflection and tone that you intended so as not to just be downright irritating?

The focus groups thought differently. This is also the reason that The Witcher 2 opted for a paraphrase system.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

EJ107 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

But that is not a compromise. That is asking them to entirely change their design principles to cater to your preferences. Which is an argument you can make, but you can't really sell it as a compromise that will satisfy all parties.

How is a toggle that let's you choose to play either way not a compromise between people who want full text and those who don't??  

How would it not satisfy everybody?? 

For some people here, it wouldn't.

[t0mm06]

fchopin wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

I am genuinely stumped as to why this was included. If anyone can enlighten me, please do so.

It was implemented because BW did not want you to know what your character would say.
 
It had nothing to do with not enough space for the text.

yes thats right they they did it just to annoy people witn no rational reasons other then they hate there audience. 

[happy_daiz]

fchopin wrote...

It was implemented because BW did not want you to know what your character would say.
 
It had nothing to do with not enough space for the text.

I'm guessing you play on a PC? There really isn't room for entire sentences on console.

[t0mm06]

willholt wrote...

G00N3R7883 wrote...

I like the voice wheel for the most part so I would like to keep it, but I do agree with the group of fans who say an improvement should be made to make the full text lines clearer before we select our response.

I think the main problem is that some lines aren't really paraphrased, and instead the short version we pick and the long version that is spoken are actually two completely different lines. The lines where the short version and the long version are fairly similar, I have no problem with.

I agree...

There's a big difference between a player choosing a line and the character saying something  different that means the same, and the present system.

To use an example (no, it's not in the game)

Player chooses, ' I don't like Fruit,'

Character says,'I'm not a big fan of fruit... I don't like the taste.'


as opposed to:

Player chooses, 'I don't like fruit.'

Character says, ' My Granny slipped on a banana and killed herself'.

Which is where we are with the present level of paraphrasing in Da2!

See i thought the best implemented times using the wheel wasn't when soemthing had been paraphrased, but when it told you what the jist of what you were going to say was,  the time i mainly remeber this is when the viscount asks you why the arishock was so interested in you the diplomatic selections wasnt a shortened version of what you said but rather it said 'tell the truth, keep it short' which to me is better as you know more what hawke is going to do,  like with your example i would rather

Player chooses, 'make a joke about fruit' 

this way i know exactly whats going to happen, even if i dont know the exact wording. 

[FaeQueenCory]

I found the paraphrasing (and the whole dialogue wheel) to be adverse to role playing... because it very quickly devolves into "pick nice answer", "pick heart answer", "pick nice answer" >> friendship points. Now, I know lots of people would always want people to adore them in Origins... but you had to work for it there because many answers would result in varying degrees of approval and they had no indication before you picked it... it made interactions more realistic.
And that is why I will always prefer the silent protagonist... the dialogue wheel simply is adverse to role playing. (I shouldn't have to WORK to role play, but I SHOULD have to work to please all of my companions... not just click the happy face option.)

[FieryDove]

Dave of Canada wrote...

What I meant was poorly worded. People who want the paraphrase to list everything that's going to be said isn't going to work well because the paraphrase isn't tied to one line, picking a paraphrase can continue the conversation 3-4 lines through.

So if I highlight the sarcastic Hawke dialogue, would it list all the dialogue in the conversation, including what the other person is going to say?

I think you are making it more complicated than it has to be. If you hover over *sarcastic* it would show that line only. If there is another response needed you would hover over that to show what the character would say. I never stayed with one tone on most of my games. I find it too limiting. I was nice to friends/family, sarcastic to other npcs most times and aggressive to idiot/evil npc's. Yes the game hate me for it too. So what else is new. lol