250 réponses à ce sujet

[whykikyouwhy]

I don't want to get into the semantics of RPG, but I felt like DA2 was part of that genre. I didn't need it to be a DA:O carbon copy to classify it as such.

[Aradace]

IanPolaris wrote...

Aradace wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

I'm not sure why a "sequel" has to involve the continuation of a single character's story. They've said over and over again that the story is centered around Thedas's history and the important people in it, not one character's glorious, blind charge through it.

A sequel continues a previous work's narrative, which Dragon Age 2 DID.

No it didn't really.  Other than an excuse to get Hawke out of Lothering, the blight may as well never have happened when it comes to the impact on DA2.  At BEST it's a parallel story.  Not a sequel.  When an RPG (like DAO) has a sequal labeled DRAGON AGE TWO, then I expect another RPG (esp if it's marketed as the spiritual successor of Balder's Gate) and not a badly done hybrid.

-Polaris

Regardless of how you feel, you can only blame yourself at this point for your disappointment.  Because had you just had the clarity of mind, as I said, to do the research, then you wouldnt even be here talking about this because Im sure you wouldnt have bought the game to begin with.  Now again, before you make MORE assumptions, Im NOT saying you CANT be disappointed with the game.  What I AM saying, is that in this very rare case, the disappointment, is YOUR fault.

Bolluxs.  If I buy Kibbles TWO then I expect to see a very similiar product to Kibbles and no amount of excuses will change that.  Same, same.

-Polaris

Bullcrap.  Its still YOUR fault for not doing the research.  How many more times do I have to post that before it sinks in?  The information was there.  YOU are the one who chose NOT to research it.  

[IanPolaris]

Aradace wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

 .... The expectation of an RPG is a valid one based on the name of the game alone.

-Polaris

Omfg....No...Just...No....Read VERY carefully:  Not.....When....The...Information....Is....there....Ahead....of.....time....to.....tell....you.....OTHERWISE!!!! There is no way you can spin this where it isnt YOUR fault for not researching the game.  You seem to be convienientlly dodging that aspect frequently.  You cannot use ignorance as an excuse here.

I can when I was mislead.  The very marketing (spiritual successor to Balder's Gate) and Dragon Age TWO was IMHO deliberately misleading.  Look at the pre-orders (most of them wanted DAO 2 as well) as Bioware's very late (but welcome) admission of an "expecatations" gap, as well as the fact that sales fell off a cliff once word got out, and this is a real problem. Bioware's problem.  Not mine. Caused because Bioware wanted to cash in on the Dragon Age name whether the product was actually like the preexisting Dragon Age or not.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Aradace wrote...

Bullcrap.  Its still YOUR fault for not doing the research.  How many more times do I have to post that before it sinks in?  The information was there.  YOU are the one who chose NOT to research it.  

Bolluxs.  If you tell the customer that they "should do the research" before buying a SEQUEL of their favorite game, then you are already in the wrong.

-Polaris

[Aradace]

IanPolaris wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Bullcrap.  Its still YOUR fault for not doing the research.  How many more times do I have to post that before it sinks in?  The information was there.  YOU are the one who chose NOT to research it.  

Bolluxs.  If you tell the customer that they "should do the research" before buying a SEQUEL of their favorite game, then you are already in the wrong.

-Polaris

Omg...Ok...I didnt want to say this but....You're a sodding idiot.  Seriously.  STILL.....YOUR.....FAULT.

Modifié par Aradace, 23 août 2011 - 03:23 .

[IanPolaris]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I don't want to get into the semantics of RPG, but I felt like DA2 was part of that genre. I didn't need it to be a DA:O carbon copy to classify it as such.

DA2 is not a classic cRPG. It's a hybrid and it was designed as such.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Aradace wrote...
No, it WASNT misleading when you were LITERALLY told that there would be NO ORIGIN STORIES and that you could ONLY PLAY AS HAWKE.  So no, it's stil your fault for not ****'ing researching the game.

You are going to blame the other 400,000+ preorders as well?  It's crystal clear (at least to me) that the reason DA2 sold so well initially and then fell off a cliff was BECAUSE the customers were led to believe this would be DAO 2.

-Polaris

[Aradace]

IanPolaris wrote...

Aradace wrote...
No, it WASNT misleading when you were LITERALLY told that there would be NO ORIGIN STORIES and that you could ONLY PLAY AS HAWKE.  So no, it's stil your fault for not ****'ing researching the game.

You are going to blame the other 400,000+ preorders as well?  It's crystal clear (at least to me) that the reason DA2 sold so well initially and then fell off a cliff was BECAUSE the customers were led to believe this would be DAO 2.

-Polaris

No Im not...Because they werent morons like yourself who dove in completely blind.  Most of them probably did their research.  Because I can guarantee most of those KNEW you wouldnt have any ORIGIN stories etc.  That's why this is YOUR fault.  Not that you dont like the game...That's your peroggative.  But for claiming ignorance, THATS why your disappointment is your fault.

Modifié par Aradace, 23 août 2011 - 03:26 .

[ipgd]

IanPolaris wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I don't want to get into the semantics of RPG, but I felt like DA2 was part of that genre. I didn't need it to be a DA:O carbon copy to classify it as such.

DA2 is not a classic cRPG. It's a hybrid and it was designed as such.

-Polaris

Oh please. Let's not pretend there is any substance to this argument; DA2 is a "hybrid" because you disliked it and need to associate it with a label you consider pejorative. This has nothing to do with any of its actual mechanics or qualities.

[whykikyouwhy]

Using numbers of pre-orders from others is a bit presumptuous. Did you get to interview all of those buyers and ask what they expected or wanted?

If you believe you were misled, again, you can try and ask for your money back. I guess for me, when I hear or read taglines of any kind, I scratch under the surface. A tagline does not bely the product - it's advertising flash. "New coke" was not new. "Super size" is not really all that hefty. "Spiritual successor" is, at best, subjective.

[Aradace]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Using numbers of pre-orders from others is a bit presumptuous. Did you get to interview all of those buyers and ask what they expected or wanted?

If you believe you were misled, again, you can try and ask for your money back. I guess for me, when I hear or read taglines of any kind, I scratch under the surface. A tagline does not bely the product - it's advertising flash. "New coke" was not new. "Super size" is not really all that hefty. "Spiritual successor" is, at best, subjective.

A "smart" consumer would have done their research before hand.  He obviously isnt.

[IanPolaris]

Aradace wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Aradace wrote...
No, it WASNT misleading when you were LITERALLY told that there would be NO ORIGIN STORIES and that you could ONLY PLAY AS HAWKE.  So no, it's stil your fault for not ****'ing researching the game.

You are going to blame the other 400,000+ preorders as well?  It's crystal clear (at least to me) that the reason DA2 sold so well initially and then fell off a cliff was BECAUSE the customers were led to believe this would be DAO 2.

-Polaris

No Im not...Because they werent morons like yourself who dove in completely blind.  Most of them probably did their research.  Because I can guarantee most of those KNEW you wouldnt have any ORIGIN stories etc.  That's why this is YOUR fault.  Not that you dont like the game...That's your peroggative.  But for claiming ignorance, THATS why your disappointment is your fault.

So explain why orders fell off a cliff after less than two weeks?  I think the reason is obvious.  Bioware tried to cash in the the name, and a lot of people bought it based on the name alone (Dragon Age TWO) and Bioware's reputation...things you are now ridiculing.

-Polaris

[Aradace]

IanPolaris wrote...

Aradace wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Aradace wrote...
No, it WASNT misleading when you were LITERALLY told that there would be NO ORIGIN STORIES and that you could ONLY PLAY AS HAWKE.  So no, it's stil your fault for not ****'ing researching the game.

You are going to blame the other 400,000+ preorders as well?  It's crystal clear (at least to me) that the reason DA2 sold so well initially and then fell off a cliff was BECAUSE the customers were led to believe this would be DAO 2.

-Polaris

No Im not...Because they werent morons like yourself who dove in completely blind.  Most of them probably did their research.  Because I can guarantee most of those KNEW you wouldnt have any ORIGIN stories etc.  That's why this is YOUR fault.  Not that you dont like the game...That's your peroggative.  But for claiming ignorance, THATS why your disappointment is your fault.

So explain why orders fell off a cliff after less than two weeks?  I think the reason is obvious.  Bioware tried to cash in the the name, and a lot of people bought it based on the name alone (Dragon Age TWO) and Bioware's reputation...things you are now ridiculing.

-Polaris

Not because they didnt know the information before hand.  Because it was posted all over the damned forums and the DA2 website.  Again, YOUR fault for not being a "smart" consumer and doing your research.  No matter how you spin this, it comes back to you and your inability to be smart about your purchases.  This is about YOU not being smart enough to research your purchase before hand, not the other folks who cancelled their pre-orders.

Modifié par Aradace, 23 août 2011 - 03:34 .

[Mr.House]

I per-ordred DA2 knowing it was going to be different and didn't expect much, I was happy with my purchase.

[Mr.House]

IanPolaris wrote...

So explain why orders fell off a cliff after less than two weeks?  I think the reason is obvious.  Bioware tried to cash in the the name, and a lot of people bought it based on the name alone (Dragon Age TWO) and Bioware's reputation...things you are now ridiculing.

-Polaris

Bioware never advertised that they where reusing the same cave,warehouses and mansion maps, that Hawke would be too reactive and there would be para troops. Just saying

Modifié par Mr.House, 23 août 2011 - 03:34 .

[IanPolaris]

Aradace wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Aradace wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Aradace wrote...
No, it WASNT misleading when you were LITERALLY told that there would be NO ORIGIN STORIES and that you could ONLY PLAY AS HAWKE.  So no, it's stil your fault for not ****'ing researching the game.

You are going to blame the other 400,000+ preorders as well?  It's crystal clear (at least to me) that the reason DA2 sold so well initially and then fell off a cliff was BECAUSE the customers were led to believe this would be DAO 2.

-Polaris

No Im not...Because they werent morons like yourself who dove in completely blind.  Most of them probably did their research.  Because I can guarantee most of those KNEW you wouldnt have any ORIGIN stories etc.  That's why this is YOUR fault.  Not that you dont like the game...That's your peroggative.  But for claiming ignorance, THATS why your disappointment is your fault.

So explain why orders fell off a cliff after less than two weeks?  I think the reason is obvious.  Bioware tried to cash in the the name, and a lot of people bought it based on the name alone (Dragon Age TWO) and Bioware's reputation...things you are now ridiculing.

-Polaris

Not because they didnt know the information before hand.  Because it was posted all over the damned forums and the DA2 website.  Again, YOUR fault for not being a "smart" consumer and doing your research.  No matter how you spin this, it comes back to you and your inability to be smart about your purchases.  This is about YOU not being smart enough to research your purchase before hand, not the other folks who cancelled their pre-orders.

So it wasn't Bioware's fault that they didn't manage their expectations correctly?  Funny because even Bioware is now admitting that it's at least partially an issue (i.e. their fault or the closest they will come to admitting fault with anything).

-Polaris

[Rovay]

@Aradace and IanPolaris

Perhaps you should stop derailing this thread? It's clear that any of you would sooner kill your own mother than admit being wrong (and in my opinion one of you is really, really wrong). So let's play nice, okay?

Or at least let me get my popcorn first.

Modifié par Rovay, 23 août 2011 - 03:41 .

[whykikyouwhy]

I'm sure you could do a comparison on a lot of "new" products and see a drop in sales a few weeks after actual release. That's not unique to DA2 or Bioware. That's consumer behavior.

At this point, I think we have established that you and I are different consumers. We look for different things, we shop and research differently. If I can impart anything, it would be to take any ad/tagline with a grain of salt, because at the very core, there is a profit to consider, so the media company hired for advertising may not represent the product to match your perspective.

That being said, I'll reiterate that I found no fault with DA2 being an RPG, nor did I feel misled. I wanted to play a game with a hero in a world "introduced" in Origins. I got that. I was satisfied in that regard. I don't feel like Bioware is out to bilk me of my funds. I actually appreciate the story they allowed me to participate in.

[Aradace]

@Ian - I love how you keep dodging the issue so you know what? Im just going to bow gracefully out of this because no matter what I say at this point, you think that you shouldnt need to research a title before you buy it. As I said before, a "smart" consumer would have. To which, you clearly arent. That's the last I'll say on it because your ignorance is killing me >.>

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Didn't need so much research, as simply follow all the pre-release hype and information, to know what to expect, which is why I did not pre-order. I already knew I was getting a canned character complete with unwanted PC voice, and most likely, limited RP value for my tastes. As well as what I felt were cheesy, dumbed down claims of "awesome buttons" and the like. Much of the pre-release hype was enough to make me decide not to pre-order, and what for fan opinions and reviews once the game was released to decide when and if I should buy it.

That said, even alot of players who had researched and looked into the game before buying, were still disappointed, and I think they had every right to feel screwed out of their money. The pre-release hype made claims of Hawke being "the most important person in Thedas" and the whole "rise to power" schtick gave many the expectation of a very different type of game that was implemented. People were expecting to be able to play a character who could make choices that had an impact on their game and immediate surroundings. They also had a reasonable expectation of continuity, and their Origins import choices would have more of a fixed impact than they did (I'm referencing not only rezzed characters who died in Origins, but also timeline and lore continuity issues as well).

DA2's marketing made expections that were not fulfilled, so you can't totally blame the consumer, because even with pre-order research, one could still end up incredibly disappointed.

[GavrielKay]

The justification for being a Warden in DAO was better done than the justification for being in Kirkwall in DA2, IMHO anyway. Where DAO insisted that you follow the plot railroad it tended to have more reasonable presentation.

And the Warden could tackle crazy odds if they wanted to - like rescuing Anora. It looked hopeless, and the Warden could actually be captured, but you had the opportunity to fight your way through and succeed if you were clever.

Hawke rarely had the opportunity to feel clever.

I know DA2 had a story to tell, but I wish they had told it in such a way that I felt I could role play too.

I mean, really, there were two scenes that weren't even "real" but just Varric telling stories. They went out of their way to make it obvious that you were just acting your way through a recall of events from Varric's point of view.

I don't remember any advertising that said that was what to expect.

[Aradace]

GavrielKay wrote...



I don't remember any advertising that said that was what to expect.

Actually, there was.  Here on the forums.  Dont remember which dev said it or whatnot but it was blatantlly stated that there would be scenes where Varric would be imbelishing or exaggerating details to tell his story and that you'd definitely be able to tell when he was doing it.

[GavrielKay]

So you're seriously suggesting that one should read possible spoilers on the forums before buying and playing a game where story is half the fun?

[Aradace]

GavrielKay wrote...

So you're seriously suggesting that one should read possible spoilers on the forums before buying and playing a game where story is half the fun?

Yes I do.  It's a trade off.  If you want information, then you need to suck it up that there could possibly be some spoilers.  Otherwise, it's kind of your fault when you fly into a game blind expecting one thing and getting another.  Not saying you dont have a right to be upset.  Some folks dont like the game.  What Im saying is that if your disappointment is based off of being willfully ignorant to information put right in front of you, then it's your fault, not the company's.

[IanPolaris]

Aradace wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

So you're seriously suggesting that one should read possible spoilers on the forums before buying and playing a game where story is half the fun?

Yes I do.  It's a trade off.  If you want information, then you need to suck it up that there could possibly be some spoilers.  Otherwise, it's kind of your fault when you fly into a game blind expecting one thing and getting another.  Not saying you dont have a right to be upset.  Some folks dont like the game.  What Im saying is that if your disappointment is based off of being willfully ignorant to information put right in front of you, then it's your fault, not the company's.

Saying you have to go to the company forums first before buying a game (esp if you don't want spoilers) is unreasonable at least to me.  I think most would find this to be an unreasonable requirement.

-Polaris