87 réponses à ce sujet

[chrisuuuu]

  Some of it reads as veiled racism imo. But on to the main issue. Regardless if you think that jrpgs have
fallen
off since the PS2 days, it appears that a lot of people on this forum
will use that to trash almost anything coming out of Japan even from the
past. I enjoy both Western games and games from the east, but I'll
leave
some of my observations here. If games from Japan have always been utter trash, why do a lot of them
still garner respect and praise from western game media sites and critics along with regular players?

   
If you look at IGN's top game developers of all time feature from last
year, Miyamoto tops at #1. Even Bioware's founder had nothing but praise
for the creator of Mario and Zelda. If you look at the games this
generation
that IGN gave perfect 10s to, only one US game, GTA IV,
made the list while japanese developed Metal Gear Solid 4, Super Mario
Galaxy 2, Pacman Championship Edition DX all got perfect 10s. In fact,
the only rpg this generation to get perfect 10s from IGN was just
awarded one a month ago: Chrono Trigger, rereleased for the WII.

  
If you head over to metacritic and compared Dragon Age to Final Fantasy
VII which so many here love to do, both aggregate scores for critics
and regular users scored FFVII higher. DA - 91 critics, 83
user.....FFVII - 92 critics, 9.2 user. And I consider FFVII to be
flawed. The first portion, the whole Midgar section was such an
indelible gaming experience but it went downhill from there. IMO Chrono
Trigger, Xenogears, and FFVI are superior...it is a legendary japanese
game, Legend of Zelda: TOoT that has the highest metacritic game score
of any major game console release with a 9.9 average. It is widely
regarded by many to be the pinnacle of video game design. I'm willing to
bet some members here would argue that US-developed Duke Nukem Forever
is the superior title. Where were these bashers during jrpgs heyday
during the SNES and PS1 heydays? Fuming over the fact that their
favorite game Eye of the Beholder (which is actually a pretty fun
game) wasn't getting the same amount of press.

I find it funny
that when asked which games deserved to be immortalized in the
Smithsonian, none of the Western developers mentioned ANY Bioware game. It seems that ICO was mentioned numerous times.  Greg Zeschuk, co-founder of BioWare, co-creator of Dragon Age and Mass Effect franchises: "Super Mario 64. It showed what you could do in a 3D environment
and felt incredibly freeing. Really, it brought the idea of adventure
to a new scale. Games today owe a lot to this one. http://techland.time.../#ixzz1VgeRhmMz


 
Why all the bashing of everything Japanese on this forum? Can't we have
a more open mind to different gaming experiences? Both Japanese and
Western developers put out gems and bombs all the time this generation. I
loved aspects of both Mass Effect 2 (character dynamics, exploration)
and Xenogears (godly music, great storyline). I think some critiques are
valid. For Japanese games, there are way too many Cloud
lookalikes/knockoffs...and for Western games too many Sam Fisher
lookalikes/knock offs.

[Ulous]

I used to love JRPG's and Japanese games in general, but I feel they have fell behind the west by refusing and/or just not realising they need to make changes, you can only use the same formulas for so long before people get pissed off.

[Chromie]

Ulous wrote...

I used to love JRPG's and Japanese games in general, but I feel they have fell behind the west by refusing and/or just not realising they need to make changes, you can only use the same formulas for so long before people get pissed off.

Bioware uses the same forumla over and over. Some people just seem to hate jrpg because it's different. I play them because they are different.

Modifié par Ringo12, 21 août 2011 - 06:30 .

[Ulous]

Ringo12 wrote...


Bioware uses the same forumla over and over. Some people just seem to hate jrpg because it's different. I play them because they are different.

Depends what you mean by formula? Baldurs gate through to Mass effect 2 are completely different games, the formula is only the same in that they are Bioware RPG's, like any developer they carry their own hallmark which makes people instantly recognise them.

Japanese games on the other hand have hardly changed at all since the 90's, to cover up their shocking lack of changes they try blinding the gamer from the truth with pretty graphics and nostalgia.......... but people are now seeing through that and are losing faith in the Japanese games market.

[KenKenpachi]

Ulous True in the Western Market, not in the growing Eastern Market. Besides we don't seem to care much about game changes our self (Sports and COD never changes hardly).

It really comes down to costs versus profit. Market to Africa, China, Russia, and the rest of Asia, with the stories your people love, and need very little..well social studies to make more effective. Or do you try and make changes to please the western market constantly (Capcom tries this with hit and miss results.) which will require more insight and study.

Back in the 80's and on back it made sense. But With China nearing the same ability to project power, at least economically, and population booms in the East and Africa, versus population declines (and economic) in the west, the picture gets more and more murky. More so when you take into account western demands that politics and ecnomics should mix. In a way it reflects the Wii's market, do I try and please group a thats made out of 12 members while selling a new type of food everyday, to keep them "looking" at me. Or do I seel to group b that loves ANYTHING I put out and is made up of 20 members. Plus there are cultural issues to take into account. The home market tends to love whats happening. And the same things, its kinda like trying to get Europeans to love baseball as much as Football as they call it, and vise versa. Just isn't going to happen.

As to the topic OP, some here are like that, some just don't like the games for other reasons, and some like them.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 21 août 2011 - 06:42 .

[Ulous]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Ulous True in the Western Market, not in the growing Eastern Market. Besides we don't seem to care much about game changes our self (Sports and COD never changes hardly).

True but I suppose it depends on the individual, myself i've chosen not to play COD again after MW1, the sports thing is a bit different in that they have still at least evolved some, they haven't pushed football games forward with graphics alone, FIFA for example has come a long way since it first arrived, same with Pro-evo.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I just can't stand JRPGs. I can't stand the settings, characters, etc. I suppose you can argue I make some exceptions, but I've always considered the Zelda games more "adventure" titles than true RPGs. Most Zelda and Mario titles are also made with Western audiences partly in mind.

As per other foreign developers, I have increasing respect for Eastern European developers who have been making realistic fight sims and other simulations that nobody in the west makes anymore, plus titles like Stalker and The Witcher. I hope they don't follow the downright idiotic trends so many Western developers seem to be doing.

[Volus Warlord]

ReconTeam wrote...

I just can't stand JRPGs. I can't stand the settings, characters, etc. I suppose you can argue I make some exceptions, but I've always considered the Zelda games more "adventure" titles than true RPGs. Most Zelda and Mario titles are also made with Western audiences partly in mind.

As per other foreign developers, I have increasing respect for Eastern European developers who have been making realistic fight sims and other simulations that nobody in the west makes anymore, plus titles like Stalker and The Witcher. I hope they don't follow the downright idiotic trends so many Western developers seem to be doing.

I hear that.

Tropico was made in eastern Europe and I love it.

[KenKenpachi]

Yeah in the case of FIFA I think it has more to do with its limited market, in terms of overall gamers. Least stateside. They have a small market and can't really "******" in the cornflakes so to speak, when it comes to the fans it has. Which all tend to agree. And individualism is true enough,

I find most RPG fans here just don't see eye to eye on those games period. In the East given the culture it tends to be more, as a whole than the few. Western regions can differ, as well such as most in my area loving DA:2 and FF:7 while finding origins boring, and this forum to be insane and full of whiners. Versus say a large multicultural and diverse views city such as London, where are are as many opinions as people.

Which in turn breaks down into more sociopolitcal debate, and who is "right." Point is if I were say selling civil War confederate flags, I have a much higher chance of a sell in the South and Midwest, than I would in England. Its easier to relate, exploit, and sell to those of like minded views, than those who are more hostile to your very culture. Or that needs alot of tact in dealing with.


Funny the Eastern market and "dead" game types was mentioned. I find they tend to use the older technologies and are able to do more with them, given limits to the budgets, and there own...developing national identies, has paved the way for creativity. For nations that are culturally set in stone, or that are market based, the common denominator is the most used. I suspect the Eastern Europe markets may do the same at some point.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 21 août 2011 - 06:58 .

[bussinrounds]

ReconTeam wrote...

I just can't stand JRPGs. I can't stand the settings, characters, etc. I suppose you can argue I make some exceptions, but I've always considered the Zelda games more "adventure" titles than true RPGs. Most Zelda and Mario titles are also made with Western audiences partly in mind.

As per other foreign developers, I have increasing respect for Eastern European developers who have been making realistic fight sims and other simulations that nobody in the west makes anymore, plus titles like Stalker and The Witcher. I hope they don't follow the downright idiotic trends so many Western developers seem to be doing.

   I like Japanese made games, just not the ones with that anime art style.  (like most all of they're rpgs seem to have)

[Funkcase]

I love Japanese people and there culture.

I used to hate JRPG's but then I played Lost odyssey and that blew me away, now I really like some JRPG's.

[Jiggasaurus]

Playing through Xenoblade Chronicles this weekend, felt like a slight gamble purchase at the time but it was rated highly by the gaming media, and I have to say it’s one of the better games released this year. Addictive, great gameplay, really enjoyed exploring the world they’ve created, I'm around 15 hours in as it stands, but it's a quality addition to the Wii gaming libary that has been a tad threadbare recently. I think there's a large core group of gamers that would like to see JRPG's return with a vengence, unfortunatly there is also a loud minority who will shred any Eastern based/related game to pieces in the gaming media, which whilst anoying has become tedious nowadays. When was the last time any JRPG was released without critisism being leveled at it just for being from the respected genre by a random comment?

Modifié par Jiggasaurus, 21 août 2011 - 08:27 .

[Agamo45]

I've never liked them much. The art sytle doesn't appeal to me at all, it's bad when I can't tell the difference between the guys and the girls. And they usually have incoherent storylines.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

The only JRPG I really liked was Legend of the Dragoon, but that is like a really low like level. I won't disagree that they make some really good games like the RE series and MGS, but when it comes down to RPGs (the only game type that I play a lot of), they really fall flat. I had a friend that used to love all the JRPGs, so I usually played some of the games like Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy X, and others.

The only RPG from Japan that actually had a certain level of depth was Demon's Souls, but only because the storyline was very dark and the gameplay was fantastic. Regardless, though, I think it is more of a WRPG inspired JRPG. Since there was virtually no storyline, I don't favor the game as a whole. Just imagine if Obsidian got the rights to Demon's Souls would be an epic game.

Anyways, the thing that always pushed me away from JRPGs was the linearity, lack of C&C, and especially lack of morally grey storylines.

[Warheadz]

Well, some people bash Japan 'cause when they think of it something like this pops into their mind.

Sure, Japan produces weird stuff, but it produces a lot of great stuff as well.

JRPG's, now that's a big topic.

[bussinrounds]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

The only JRPG I really liked was Legend of the Dragoon, but that is like a really low like level. I won't disagree that they make some really good games like the RE series and MGS, but when it comes down to RPGs (the only game type that I play a lot of), they really fall flat. I had a friend that used to love all the JRPGs, so I usually played some of the games like Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy X, and others.

The only RPG from Japan that actually had a certain level of depth was Demon's Souls, but only because the storyline was very dark and the gameplay was fantastic. Regardless, though, I think it is more of a WRPG inspired JRPG. Since there was virtually no storyline, I don't favor the game as a whole. Just imagine if Obsidian got the rights to Demon's Souls would be an epic game.

Anyways, the thing that always pushed me away from JRPGs was the linearity, lack of C&C, and especially lack of morally grey storylines.

   Demons Souls is more of an action game than a true rpg anyways, imo.

[Volus Warlord]

The OP would accuse me of hating black people if I talked crap on fried chicken. No taste once you get past the skin!

[marshalleck]

BSN hates everything Japanese. JRPG, anime, Japanese people, etc.

This place is incredibly racist toward RPG and anime

Modifié par marshalleck, 21 août 2011 - 09:57 .

[marshalleck]

ReconTeam wrote...

As per other foreign developers, I have increasing respect for Eastern European developers who have been making realistic fight sims and other simulations that nobody in the west makes anymore, plus titles like Stalker and The Witcher. I hope they don't follow the downright idiotic trends so many Western developers seem to be doing.

Incidentally, it's not just video games they do right. Eastern Europe is the last stronghold of true metal as well. Especially Ukraine. The bands coming out of there are amazing. Between the metal bands and the game developers, they're basically taking western creative arts, stripping out all the commercialized base-pandering and distilling the forms to a pure essence. I'm really looking forward to that new cyberpunk FPS Hard Reset, looks amazing. Quality FPS with no bull****. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 21 août 2011 - 10:41 .

[TW2GERALT]

GTA IV is made in UK not US

[Chuvvy]

I signed off on JRPGs awhile ago. The last really good one I've played is Demons Souls.

[chunkyman]

marshalleck wrote...

BSN hates everything Japanese. JRPG, anime, Japanese people, etc.

This place is incredibly racist toward RPG and anime

I really hope that's a joke... 

 Most Anime and JRPG's are just plain goofy, and kinda deserve to be mocked. I've watched anime before and it's mostly a mixture of boring, uninspired plot and bizarre artistic design (that often depicts rather young women in skimpy clothing). With the exception of Fire Emblem, all JRPG's I've tried are very linear borefests. 

[Chromie]

chunkyman wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

BSN hates everything Japanese. JRPG, anime, Japanese people, etc.

This place is incredibly racist toward RPG and anime

I really hope that's a joke... 

 Most Anime and JRPG's are just plain goofy, and kinda deserve to be mocked. I've watched anime before and it's mostly a mixture of boring, uninspired plot and bizarre artistic design (that often depicts rather young women in skimpy clothing). With the exception of Fire Emblem, all JRPG's I've tried are very linear borefests. 

Like any movie, show or game there will be crap.

Dragon Quest series are still great, The Last Story which I've played in Japanese yes but very fun, As for anime there are good ones like Moribito which is based on a book so there is a lot of depth. Inuyasha is awesome.

BSN just hates anything japanese.

[Sundance31us]

Ringo12 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
BSN hates everything Japanese. JRPG, anime, Japanese people, etc.

This place is incredibly racist toward RPG and anime

BSN just hates anything japanese.

Generalities again, some of us just don't care enough to have a view either way.