200 réponses à ce sujet

[Blarty]

The difference for the Krogan race before the genophage and one that could be cured of it, is that they know, whilst being warlike race, that something did nearly wipe out their entire species, and although the Genophage is about slowing down viable birthing rates, Wrex understands that the Krogan more or less brought themselves to extinction, rather than focussing on sustaining their population.

If the genophage is cured, I believe hindsight is a wonderful thing and the possibility that a worse genophage could be wreaked upon them, as well as the hope that the clans can be brought together may help the Krogan as a race re-evaluate it's priorities and place within Council space. After all it is not really a population explosion that made the genophage a necessity but the Krogan rebellions and infighting

[Nizzemancer]

Yo, I'm bringing this here cure to my bro Wrex, can't read your thread right now.

[GodWood]

LGTX wrote...
In my Wrex being alive playthrough, certainly. He'll make sure to keep the krogan in line, I trust him.

And how will he do that?
He's barely in control as it is and if you cure the genophage he'll be no longer needed.

If you want the krogan to remain in tact you must destroy the genophage.

[LGTX]

I answered that. I trust him. Nothing is a 'must', I'm the one in charge of my playthrough.

[GodWood]

LGTX wrote...
I answered that. I trust him. Nothing is a 'must', I'm the one in charge of my playthrough.

No you're not.
You make the choices but Bioware makes the consequences.

Logic dictates your plans for the krogan will fail.

Modifié par GodWood, 22 août 2011 - 12:29 .

[LGTX]

Yeah well, Bioware surprising me with unforseen consequences is all the better, what's your point?

[GodWood]

Your plans will fail and it's from an in-universe perspective it makes more sense to destroy the cure.

You do understand this is a thread for discussing whether Shepard should or should not cure the krogan don't you?

[LGTX]

Yep, I know what the thread is about.

I don't care if my plans aren't integral with the logics of the universe. They are integral with the morals of my characters, consequences will be dealt with when they arise. I don't metagame too much when I play.

[Aaleel]

My curing of the genophage has nothing to do with the Reapers, my Shepards just don't agree with it in general.

- If it made it hard to conceive in the first place, but once a female did conceive they carried it to term maybe I would agree. But to let females conceive and have 999/1000 miscarry or have a stillborn child is just....

- Also avoiding future deaths by murdering people in the present isn't really a solution to me.

- Also the genophage was a military weapon that wasn't made to target soldiers, it was made to target women and children, which by any standards of war is just out of bounds.

So yeah, my Shepards are all for curing it, or drastically changing it's current form.

Modifié par Aaleel, 22 août 2011 - 12:49 .

[CroGamer002]

The PLC wrote...

No. Most Krogans are douchebags.

Not counting generic Krogan enemies, Krogan douchebags are in minority.

[CroGamer002]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
With Wrex in charge, yes.

You'd entrust the future behaviour of a whole species to one person? I find that a little naive.

He's a leader, we seen many good Krogans, so why not?

[Guanxi]

If Wrex becomes the de facto leader come savior of the Krogan I think it's pretty obvious that the Krogan will take a radically different path that involves thrivolous things that don't explode like crop genetics and such... therefore why would anyone want to deny them a shot at a real future... the Krogan may prove dangerous however if the cure rests in the hands of traditionalists for example say you forgot to do Mordins LM. Also I'm sure renegades get the chance to doom their race mirroring the fate of the Rachni.

[Slayer299]

Aaleel wrote...
- Also the genophage was a military weapon that wasn't made to target soldiers, it was made to target women and children, which by any standards of war is just out of bounds.

So yeah, my Shepards are all for curing it, or drastically changing it's current form.

No, the Genophage was targeted to hit *every* Krogan and its effect was to drasticly limit the birth rate otherwise Grunt wouldn't have the Genophage. Also, if yhou remember when you find Okeer he tells you that the greatest insult is to ignore your enemy and in this case that something in Grunt's makeup to ignore the effects of the Genophage.

- Also avoiding future deaths by murdering people in the present isn't really a solution to me.

We aren't talking about a Minority Report-style of stopping future murders, it is about lowering the birthrates of Krogan females to a point the Krogan can't go on a killing spree on a galactic level anymore.

edit - typo

Modifié par Slayer299, 22 août 2011 - 01:39 .

[Aaleel]

Slayer299 wrote...

No, the Genophage was targeted to hit *every* Krogan and its effect was to drasticly limit the birth rate otherwise Grunt wouldn't have the Genophage. Also, if yhou remember when you find Okeer he tells you that the greatest insult is to ignore your enemy and in this case that something in Grunt's makeup to ignore the effects of the Genophage.

Men can't have kids, so what ill effects are they suffering?  The point was to stop female Krogan from carrying baby Krogan to term.  Like I said if the genophage made it harder for male Krogan and female Krogan to conceive in the first place then maybe.  But it does nothing to this effect, it allows the females to conceive children as normal it just doesn't allow them to carry them to term.  So who were the targets.

We aren't talking about a Minority Report-style of stopping future murders, it is about lowering the birthrates of Krogan females to a point the Krogan can't go on a killing spree on a galactic level anymore.

What is the difference.  The genophage has been going on for what a millenia?  999/1000 don't make it, you do the math, 999,000/1,000,000 don't make it, if you carry it out some decimals.  How many lives lost in the present for the sake of lives in the future? 

And Edit:  They didn't even make an accompaning cure.  If some unforseen circumstance had come along,  Krogan don't even have the means like other races to replenish their numbers, it would have been extinction while they waited around for a cure to be made on the back end. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 22 août 2011 - 02:00 .

[Xilizhra]

Too circumstantial for me to decide now. I'll need to wait until the actual game comes out.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Absolutely not. The genophage was the right call. At best make it more gentle after the war and have it be 3 or 5 out of 1000 instead of the current 1/1000.

[Quething]

Aaleel wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

No, the Genophage was targeted to hit *every* Krogan and its effect was to drasticly limit the birth rate otherwise Grunt wouldn't have the Genophage. Also, if yhou remember when you find Okeer he tells you that the greatest insult is to ignore your enemy and in this case that something in Grunt's makeup to ignore the effects of the Genophage.

Men can't have kids, so what ill effects are they suffering?  The point was to stop female Krogan from carrying baby Krogan to term.  Like I said if the genophage made it harder for male Krogan and female Krogan to conceive in the first place then maybe.  But it does nothing to this effect, it allows the females to conceive children as normal it just doesn't allow them to carry them to term.  So who were the targets.

You know, this is the part that makes me think the krogan are actually much more advanced than anyone gives them credit for. Because the krogan actually don't take the Genophage as an excuse to turn crazy sexist and abuse their women. With the sole exception of Shiagur (at least that we know about), they hide their fertile females amongst the unfertile ones. It would be pretty easy - downright expected, in fact, if they were the savages galactic PR would have you think - for them to turn fertile females into possessions and bargaining chips and boot unfertile females out of the society entirely to save resources and promote their ostensible survival-of-the-fittest cultural philosophy, but instead they developed an entire system to protect all females from that treatment by obscuring the difference from anyone with reason to make an issue of it.

That said, I still think it's a bad idea to cure the thing. It's pretty clear that Wrexes and Chars are rare and Grunts and Okeers are common, and it's not a good idea to give a culture that produces that ratio any help in expanding or asserting itself.

[Plakto]

I am shocked at the comfort level of keeping an entire race of people "In check". Arguments that populations control aside, how comfortable would you feel if all the aliens in the galaxy made a human genophage. Consider. Humans are extremely adaptive. Can reproduce multiple times with a relatively short gestation, and despite we don't breed as far as krogan, we make it up by being smarter. We also have a habit of being very selfish and warmongering ourselves, kicking in the galactic door and taking of charge without being in citadel council space a good 50 years.

We made alot of enemies, if very viable to maintain our populations or hit us with something as brutally similar as a response to our diplomatic aggression.

I feel the only "truth" here is that it's not shepards right to make the call that an entire species should be cured. She it be made available? Hell yeah, but Wrex/Wreave (or if he had survived, Okeer; seriously.) should be determining who should be cured and in which capacity.

[leggywillow]

Quething wrote...
You know, this is the part that makes me think the krogan are actually much more advanced than anyone gives them credit for. Because the krogan actually don't take the Genophage as an excuse to turn crazy sexist and abuse their women. With the sole exception of Shiagur (at least that we know about), they hide their fertile females amongst the unfertile ones. It would be pretty easy - downright expected, in fact, if they were the savages galactic PR would have you think - for them to turn fertile females into possessions and bargaining chips and boot unfertile females out of the society entirely to save resources and promote their ostensible survival-of-the-fittest cultural philosophy, but instead they developed an entire system to protect all females from that treatment by obscuring the difference from anyone with reason to make an issue of it.

This is debatable.  Krogan society as a whole never took this initiative.  The females themselves saw the risk and entirely segregated from the males to avoid just this kind of abuse.  They did this because of the violent nature of krogan society.

[CroGamer002]

The PLC wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

The PLC wrote...

No. Most Krogans are douchebags.

Not counting generic Krogan enemies, Krogan douchebags are in minority.

You must have visited a different Tuchanka than me then.

I can say the same for you.

[TobyHasEyes]

Plakto wrote...

I am shocked at the comfort level of keeping an entire race of people "In check". Arguments that populations control aside, how comfortable would you feel if all the aliens in the galaxy made a human genophage. Consider. Humans are extremely adaptive. Can reproduce multiple times with a relatively short gestation, and despite we don't breed as far as krogan, we make it up by being smarter. We also have a habit of being very selfish and warmongering ourselves, kicking in the galactic door and taking of charge without being in citadel council space a good 50 years.

We made alot of enemies, if very viable to maintain our populations or hit us with something as brutally similar as a response to our diplomatic aggression.

I feel the only "truth" here is that it's not shepards right to make the call that an entire species should be cured. She it be made available? Hell yeah, but Wrex/Wreave (or if he had survived, Okeer; seriously.) should be determining who should be cured and in which capacity.

 If humans were trying to take over the galaxy, and kill all in their path, and were winning, I don't think I could hugely object to those aliens we were killing using a weapon against us, especially when it was designed not to wipe us out but to allow us to exist whilst not threatening the entire population of the galaxy bar us