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[Twizz089]

Saphra Deden wrote...

A genophage cure will undo everything Wrex has set-up anyway.

I would be a nice twist if the "traitor" depicted in the trailer/demo is Wrex.

Wrex is more then willing to cure his people, if it is done the right way.  The cure might "undo" the system Wrex has set up, but couldnt he adapt the cure into a better system that furthers his goals of advancing the krogan race in a good way?

[Aaleel]

leggywillow wrote...

Did you talk to the scientist guy on Tuchanka?  Krogan society has no interest in science beyond making things go boom.  Wrex assigned the scientist to research agriculture, which the scientist found to be a baffling waste of his time.  I'm sure one of the things on Wrex's list of things to do is to start researching genetics, but they aren't there yet.  It's not they aren't capable, but it has never been supported by their society before now.  I stand by my assumption that for the most part they can't tell which females are fertile or not.

All females are fertile, the genophage doesn't affect fertility, it just affects how many of the conceived children will be carried to term.  Every female Krogan has the possibility to become pregnant, the question is whether they'll miscarry, or have a still birth. 

Krogan females who have carried a child to full term and given birth are prized, but any female can become pregnant.

[Twizz089]

Xilizhra wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Cerberus was never going to stay as an ally. Even when you were working for them, they were presented as far too shady.

Oh, wait, hold on, I stepped in some BS just now.

I always thought that being an Alliance hardliner was going to stay the ultimate Renegade position. Cerberus is a twist on the concept that's clearly too dark for any Shepard to stay with, considering what it seems to have become (or, more likely, what it always was).

This,  judging by the dialouge options even after you save the base

[LilyasAvalon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

A genophage cure will undo everything Wrex has set-up anyway.

I would be a nice twist if the "traitor" depicted in the trailer/demo is Wrex.

Depends on how you want to write it, a good writer can make it slide either way. Genophage or not, if the krogan want to be respected by the galaxy, they have to evolve socially and stabily. You still need Wrex, or Urdnot anyway for that.

[Xilizhra]

So then I'm sure you can understand my confusion when Cerberus is revealed to be an enemy, and a major one at that with its own army.

Well, that's why they are an enemy. There's more than one way to human supremacy (they seem to have adopted your way), and only one group left who might give them the power they need to carry it out. And if TIM is free of indoctrination, it makes him more useful, more of an independent thinker.

[leggywillow]

Aaleel wrote...
All females are fertile, the genophage doesn't affect fertility, it just affects how many of the conceived children will be carried to term.  Every female Krogan has the possibility to become pregnant, the question is whether they'll miscarry, or have a still birth. 

Krogan females who have carried a child to full term and given birth are prized, but any female can become pregnant.

Yep, that's how I've always seen it.  "Fertile female" is just the simplest term for the krogan to use to describe their situation.  Kinda like how we always talk about "cheating" in regards to the Virmire Survivor.  It's not entirely accurate, but it is shorter than describing what's really going on and it still gets the point across.

[Twizz089]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Wrex is more then willing to cure his people, if it is done the right way.  The cure might "undo" the system Wrex has set up, but couldnt he adapt the cure into a better system that furthers his goals of advancing the krogan race in a good way?

Wrex's idea of a cure is a social one which will stop the krogan from mindlessly fighting and instead guide them into working together towards a productive, common goal.

I believe Wrex wants both cures, a social one and a medical one, Okeer is the only krogan to outright refuse a medical cure

[LilyasAvalon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

So then I'm sure you can understand my confusion when Cerberus is revealed to be an enemy, and a major one at that with its own army.

I thought it was kinda obvious Cerberus was gonna backstab you anyway. Shepard is a resource, once they use that resource for what they need, they throw it away. It was a little evident, to me anyway, it was NEVER about the colonists, not to TIM and whoever is up there in Cerberus HQ, but rather, the Collector/Reaper tech.

TIM is a business man, through and through.

...Though I do agree that Cerberus suddenly having an army the size of the geth makes nnnnoooo sense whatsoever. Got a sinking feeling though quite a few of those humans were... 'tankbreed' if you know what I mean.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 22 août 2011 - 04:12 .

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

To continue my thoughts about Cerberus...

All the talk of how much money they sunk into you drove home one point: Cerberus created YOU as their primary weapon in this fight. They could have had an army, but TIM decided Shepard was more important.

That choice left Cerberus close to broke and the turians finished the job.


Cerberus turning around in ME3 as overt enemies with a vast army completely undoes everything were were told about them in ME2 as well as invalidating it.

Well, remember that the stuff told in ME2 were what was told in-game... and TIM controls the information flow and is an inveterate liar.

[Twizz089]

Saphra Deden wrote...

To continue my thoughts about Cerberus...

All the talk of how much money they sunk into you drove home one point: Cerberus created YOU as their primary weapon in this fight. They could have had an army, but TIM decided Shepard was more important.

That choice left Cerberus close to broke and the turians finished the job.


Cerberus turning around in ME3 as overt enemies with a vast army completely undoes everything were were told about them in ME2 as well as invalidating it.

When was the amount of money Cerberus had after bringing Sheperd back ever discussed?  Cerberus is made up of many cells correct? Couldnt one of those cells been developing an defensive army for years to protect humanity? Couldnt they be the enemy force in the demo?  Was TIM ever named as the person in charge of that force?

[LilyasAvalon]

Also, if my theory is right, that means TIM didn't just choose between option A. Bringing back Shepard and option B. 'Raising' an army.

He choose both. o_o

[Aaleel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

I believe Wrex wants both cures, a social one and a medical one, Okeer is the only krogan to outright refuse a medical cure

No, he doesn't want a medical cure. If he did he'd have worked with Maelon and wouldn't have sent you off to kill him.

Well, that is if Mass Effect has any actual depth in its characters. I'm begining to think it doesn't. Wrex is a "good guy" so of-course he wants "good guy" things even when they directly contradict his goals.

Maybe he didn't want a rogue group finding a cure and turning them into slaves or just tools like Saren was trying to do.  But the gun he pulled on me on Virmire tells me he wants a cure under the right circumstances.

[LGTX]

I think one of the logs on Lazarus mentions four billions creds. And Timmy says so himself as well, if I recall correctly.

[Twizz089]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

I believe Wrex wants both cures, a social one and a medical one, Okeer is the only krogan to outright refuse a medical cure

No, he doesn't want a medical cure. If he did he'd have worked with Maelon and wouldn't have sent you off to kill him.

Well, that is if Mass Effect has any actual depth in its characters. I'm begining to think it doesn't. Wrex is a "good guy" so of-course he wants "good guy" things even when they directly contradict his goals.

Quotes.  I dont remember Shep telling Wrex that Maelon was working on a cure, and then Wrex saying "I dont want a cure go kill him"

Modifié par Twizz089, 22 août 2011 - 04:17 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I thought it was kinda obvious Cerberus was gonna backstab you anyway.

I think it is obvious you are a mindless drone who felt that way because characters kept saying "Cerberus can't be trusted" despite never explaining why or giving you any real reason to distrust them.

Cerberus is a private military/business organisation. You just don't trust these sorts of guys, plain and simple. If you do, you're an idiot.

They sweet talk you, rearrange the truth to better suit their needs and as soon as you do as they ask, sell you out quicker than a rabid varren with a salarian in the pit.

Also, I do not believe that Cerberus has been indoctrinated by the Reapers, I do believe they are simply looking out for themselves. But apparently in the books, it's evident TIM has been indoctrinated, but I have not read them myself, so I cannot say.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 22 août 2011 - 04:21 .

[Aaleel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Maybe he didn't want a rogue group finding a cure and turning them into slaves or just tools like Saren was trying to do.  But the gun he pulled on me on Virmire tells me he wants a cure under the right circumstances.

Wrex was a desperate, depressed, directionless man in ME1. He didn't believe in anything, he didn't want anything. When he learned of the cure he panicked and was overwhelmed by his desire to save his people. He didn't think about the decision, he didn't time to, that is until Shepard talked some sense into him.

The krogan are not dying because of the genophage, even Wrex knew this. That is the subtext running through his entire backstory.

The krogan could have survived and stayed strong and relevant, but they were too bloodthirsty to work together.

Yeah Shepard talked sense into him that it was a bad idea because they would have been slaves for Saren in the Reapers, and Wrex thought that would have been a worse fate.

But a cure where that's not the case, where the Krogan are as free as any other, I doubt Wrex just says OK.  

[LilyasAvalon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Twizz wrote...


Quotes.  I dont remember Shep telling Wrex that Maelon was working on a cure, and then Wrex saying "I dont want a cure go kill him"

When you talk to Maelon about why he worked with the Bloodpack he tells you that he first approached Wrex but Wrex wasn't willing to carry out the experiments.

...You did see what kind of experiments Maelon was carrying out, right? I think that was more of an issue that Wrex was not comfortable with what Maelon was doing to 'cure' the genophage, eg. experiment on living subjects. Even Wrex has lines.