23 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

So, the Robe of the Overseer, chestpiece of the Act 2 mage armor set, looks rather like the Chantry robes in Dragon Age 2. At first I thought it was just model recycling, but I no longer believe that; I've been pondering the idea that, for some reason, the Chantry copied the Overseer's design. The question is why, as the Overseer was mostly remembered for being a sadistic bastard... maybe it was an easily remembered symbol of power that the Chantry decided to appropriate? It's an interesting question. 

[Mr.House]

I think your reading too far into it XD

[Xilizhra]

Well, look at how patchy this game's lore is; we need to read pretty far into things.

At the very least, it would seem to indicate that the Tevinter Imperium used solar symbols that the Chantry later appropriated. Which, actually, if you look at a Tevinter shield...

Seems fairly likely.

[Icy Magebane]

The thing is... DA2 lacks polish. You see a lot of re-used terrain and enemies, and there are probably instances where symbols are re-used. I wouldn't put too much stock into it just yet. Not saying you're wrong, but it might be better to wait for DA3. I think the devs will have gotten their act together by then and will give fans the hints and whatnot that we've been clamoring for.

[Augustei]

Xilizhra wrote...

So, the Robe of the Overseer, chestpiece of the Act 2 mage armor set, looks rather like the Chantry robes in Dragon Age 2. At first I thought it was just model recycling, but I no longer believe that; I've been pondering the idea that, for some reason, the Chantry copied the Overseer's design. The question is why, as the Overseer was mostly remembered for being a sadistic bastard... maybe it was an easily remembered symbol of power that the Chantry decided to appropriate? It's an interesting question. 

Well the Tevinters were once part of the chantry - They still sort of are having the same prophets and beliefs, only their hierarchy is different So it doesn't seem to strange that Tevinter Chantry followers have the same symbols.

EDIT: Hmm just read he died in 25 ancient.. Well ok now im confused lol, Well the chantry may not have existed back then but The Cult of Andraste could have.. maybe he was secretly a follower or something lol

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 22 août 2011 - 03:35 .

[Xilizhra]

Filament wrote...

Maybe they were used by a circle mage since then and re-embroidered or such. I'm surprised a 1000-year-old set of robes is in wearable condition at all.

Well, they were heavily enchanted, apparently.

[Sajuro]

I thought the sun was an Orlesian symbol because the head of the chantry was considering naming the current age 'sun age' because of Orlais' power in Thedas before a dragon was like 'surprise ****es' and fried a lot of soldiers, so she named it Dragon Age to signify it was going to be a time of great change.

The Sun as a symbol isn't uncommon since many pagan religions would worship it as a life giver, and the chantry may have adopted the tevinter symbol to make the transition easier.

[Neminea]

Sajuro wrote...

The Sun as a symbol isn't uncommon since many pagan religions would worship it as a life giver, and the chantry may have adopted the tevinter symbol to make the transition easier.

This happened a lot with irl religions too, best answer, imo.

[whykikyouwhy]

Neminea wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

The Sun as a symbol isn't uncommon since many pagan religions would worship it as a life giver, and the chantry may have adopted the tevinter symbol to make the transition easier.

This happened a lot with irl religions too, best answer, imo.

I have to concur with this. The sun, the all-seeing eye, eagles and the like - all symbols that are re-used throughout various faiths and governments. They're familiar objects/entities, and the qualities or attributes associated with them are shared across numerous groups of people - so they're optimal to use. The symbol itself is easily identified, as is the intended meaning behind it.

Unless...unless the Overseer and the Chantry are both trying to say that there is only one sun!

[Rifneno]

Mr.House wrote...

I think your reading too far into it XD

One word.  Klendagon.

[Herr Uhl]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, look at how patchy this game's lore is; we need to read pretty far into things.

At the very least, it would seem to indicate that the Tevinter Imperium used solar symbols that the Chantry later appropriated. Which, actually, if you look at a Tevinter shield...

Seems fairly likely.

That is the symbol of The Imperial Chantry. I don't find it odd that they use a sun motif.

[sylvanaerie]

Also fire plays a huge part in Ferelden lore/culture what with burning bodies upon death. Denerim was the prophet's birth place. Andraste was burned at the stake, they keep flames burning eternally in the Chantry.

And one of the riddlemasters in the Gauntlet speaks of how the Maker caused the sun to bake the lands of the Tevinters so no crops would grow, and they were starving in a sun ravaged land.

What is the Maker's symbol? Is it the sun?

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 22 août 2011 - 12:47 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Yes, the Maker's common symbol is the sun. So too, in the elven pantheon, Elgar'nan cast the sun down from the heavens in anger for the sun scourging the lands (out of jealousy - what a vicious circle). Which is an interesting parallel to what is said in the gauntlet.

[Sajuro]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Neminea wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

The Sun as a symbol isn't uncommon since many pagan religions would worship it as a life giver, and the chantry may have adopted the tevinter symbol to make the transition easier.

This happened a lot with irl religions too, best answer, imo.

I have to concur with this. The sun, the all-seeing eye, eagles and the like - all symbols that are re-used throughout various faiths and governments. They're familiar objects/entities, and the qualities or attributes associated with them are shared across numerous groups of people - so they're optimal to use. The symbol itself is easily identified, as is the intended meaning behind it.

Unless...unless the Overseer and the Chantry are both trying to say that there is only one sun!

There can be only one! Unless you are on Tatooine, then there are two!

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Xilizhra wrote...

So, the Robe of the Overseer, chestpiece of the Act 2 mage armor set, looks rather like the Chantry robes in Dragon Age 2. At first I thought it was just model recycling, but I no longer believe that; I've been pondering the idea that, for some reason, the Chantry copied the Overseer's design. The question is why, as the Overseer was mostly remembered for being a sadistic bastard... maybe it was an easily remembered symbol of power that the Chantry decided to appropriate? It's an interesting question. 

Well, look at the Gallows. It was a former Tevinter slave prison, and it is full of statues and images created by the Tevinter slavers to demoralize, dehumanize, and break the slaves. Yet interestingly, when the Chantry took over, they never removed these statues or images when they converted it into a Circle of magi. The Chantry certainly did its best to destroy Tevinter imagery and symbols elsewhere in Kirkwall, including attempting to destroy or deface the old tevinter dragon god statues. But they left the Gallows pretty much as is. And I do not believe it's simply they forgot, didn't have the time, or couldn't be bothered, this was pretty deliberate. To constantly remind mages of their place in the new system, to bombard them with the irony that now they are the ones cast low, imprisoned, and dehumanized as the Magisters once did to non-Mages.

And the robes....The Chantry has now become the "Overseers" themselves. Which is not really that surprising, it is a common theme that has been repeated throughout history. Rebellions and revolutionaries overthrow a tyrannical, oppresive system, only to turn around and become tyrannical, oppresive tyrants themselves. And eventually, new revolutions or rebellions come to replace them with yet another tyrannical, oppresive system. So on and so forth, ad nauseum.

[Xilizhra]

Which is quite an interesting theme... I wonder who made the choice of the robe design? I wonder if anyone still remembers the origin?

[whykikyouwhy]

It's probably the same person or persons who made the headbands/headdresses/crowns with a sharp upward-pointing bit all the fashionable rage (as seen in the lyrium idol, with Flemeth, with Meredith, etc...) The true origin or purpose may be lost, it may predate the written record.

[Herr Uhl]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Well, look at the Gallows. It was a former Tevinter slave prison, and it is full of statues and images created by the Tevinter slavers to demoralize, dehumanize, and break the slaves. Yet interestingly, when the Chantry took over, they never removed these statues or images when they converted it into a Circle of magi. The Chantry certainly did its best to destroy Tevinter imagery and symbols elsewhere in Kirkwall, including attempting to destroy or deface the old tevinter dragon god statues. But they left the Gallows pretty much as is. And I do not believe it's simply they forgot, didn't have the time, or couldn't be bothered, this was pretty deliberate. To constantly remind mages of their place in the new system, to bombard them with the irony that now they are the ones cast low, imprisoned, and dehumanized as the Magisters once did to non-Mages.

This has been explained by that they're magically warded or somesuch. You'd imagine that the slaves would have torn it down in the initial rebellion otherwise.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Herr Uhl wrote...


This has been explained by that they're magically warded or somesuch. You'd imagine that the slaves would have torn it down in the initial rebellion otherwise.

Not really. The "twins, I can understand, since those statues are part of some mechanism that can be used to block access to Kirkwall's harbor in the event of invasion or attack by see.

The Gallows, however, are a different matter. The statues and various symbols/ images being warded is not really a good enough explaination. After close to a milenia of housing a mage Circle, it's silly to think that the Chantry, given its fear and revulsion of Tevinter magic, would have not directed the Circle of Magi to work on dispelling those wards, if that was the only thing keeping them around. They have had centuries to do so.

Not to mention that generally, magical wards wear off and weaken over time. So I still go with the theory that the horrific statues and imagery of the Gallows being left there on purpose, as a form of psychological warfare on the mages.

[Xilizhra]

Also, in one conversation with Cullen after Enemies Among Us, there are some very deliberate pans over the gate guardians and slave statues when he's talking about templars and mages, respectively.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, in one conversation with Cullen after Enemies Among Us, there are some very deliberate pans over the gate guardians and slave statues when he's talking about templars and mages, respectively.

Yep. Especially when the camera lingers on that one statue of the chained slave covering it's face and bent over cowering in fear and despair. It looked like it was meant to be a pretty obvious statement.

[Xilizhra]

Which is sort of amusing because that's when Cullen is talking somewhat disdainfully about the "poor chained apprentice" image that's damaging templar PR.

[Blah Blah Bleh]

It would actually be more accurate and questioning to compare the Robes Of Enchanter Illana to that of the Chantry Priests, she was straight up a mage and her mother made the first of those robes and her father used his power and money to in all but the Templar escort that she always had effectively made her a free mage, which in all honesty and seriousness would not go good because the Chantry bull**** about mages was just in it's teen years where they would douche bagginly enforce their laws more so back then when they have real reason to do so instead of now in DA2 where they all just do it because they're all a bunch of retarded butthurt ****s and ****es. I mean really she wore the very first pieces of clothing that made up the look of what every Chantry chick in DA2 wears and then this Overseer (who apparently was a bastardly piece of work) gets a set specifically designed for him two mages and possibly others that these clothes were made and designed for and yet all Chantry chicks (who enslave mages just because they used to seriously if they just kept all the mages that they had but never again try to take mages from their homes everything would be fine since the new mages wouldn't be in the circle they'd have no reason to rebel or anything) wear the same clothing. WHAT THE ****?!