997 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

So thanks for ignoring that.

Given that you were arguing against the s/s side with your previous line, I'd guessed that you were saying we should stop worrying about having romances that fit us because it was a video game.

[The Uncanny]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

According to research *snip*

The point is that if you're talking about fairness, and what is 'deserved' or whatever, then look at real-world  demographics.

Nice try but irrelevant.

I didn't use the word 'fairness'. You did. I didn't use the word 'deserved'. You did.

Real world demographics have nothing to do with it. I'm talking about choice. Simple as that.

[Carfax]

jlb524 wrote...

Letting the player decide the morality of the NPC with their dialogue is simply just...stupid.

LOL, the irony is strong with this one

She claims that letting the player decide the morality of the NPC via dialogue is stupid, yet she is perfectly fine with letting the player decide the sexuality of the NPC via dialogue

[Rinji the Bearded]

Luigitornado wrote...

It is one the few diversifications between playing as male or female, and it is an incentive to get players to choose to play through as the different gender. 

I really can not get simplier than that. Other than very few conversation points, there is no reason why a player would choose to play as the different gender during their second play through other than to see how the game would change.

This is assuming that players pick their preferred gender of Shepard based on who they want to romance eventually, and I could almost assure you that this is not the case.

[Inspectre]

I always thought that "don't change orientation of established characters" made no sense. Imo, every being is just as capable of doing good as committing evil, and every being is just as capable of being straight as being gay.

Nothing is certain.

[Luigitornado]

jlb524 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...
I don't want entire bisexual crew because it would limit the diversification between playing as male Shepard and female Shepard. If you want to romance Garus, then play as female Shepard. If you want to romance Tali, then play as male Shepard. The more the genders play alike, the less reason I have for choosing one over the other.

I personally don't ever want to play as male Shepard, so I don't care about 'diversity between the genders'.  There's nothing wrong with that.  In addition, consider that some people only like playing heterosexual romances while some only do homosexual ones, so the 'all bisexual thing' would be a non-issue here as far as 'lack of motivation to play as the other gender.'  Even if Garrus is available to MaleShep, I bet most would be uncomfortable romancing him with a male so will roll a female for it.

Luigitornado wrote...
You may argue that getting rid of gender-based romances would just increase the amount of options, and respectively the amount of play throughs, but not for me. With limitatations come more incentives to play as a different gender. And let's be honest, Bioware would put no thought into differing conversation points when having an increased amount of s/s options. Male Shepard romance with Garus, would be exactly the same as the Female Shepard romance with Garus. This whole argument is coming off as being immature demand of some fans; even though some fans who don't want the feature are being immature about it themselves.

Limitations = a good thing that gives us the incentives to diversifying play throughs.

Not always and not for everyone.  You speak from your own experience.  For me, these limitations lead to less playthroughs.

So if Garrus was available for both gender of Shepard and you wanted to romance him, you would do so with a male Shepard? 

How is this demand 'immature'?

I want Bioware to rid ME of the class system, renegade/paragon system, and leveling system. All are limitations of how I want to play the game, and only decrease the amount of options that limit the amount of my play throughs. 

With balanced limitations comes diversifications, that offer incentives for players to play a differently during their second play through. Once players realize that their choices do not shape on the game, then there is no incentive to play the game again.

Not to mention that limitations in story -- including romances, gives Bioware the tools for a more compelling narrative with different reactionaries: Jack saying no to FemShep. 

[Nashiktal]

Sundance31us wrote...

darkangelvxvx wrote...
Doesn't the flirty thing happen with Mordin and he shoots him down?

I had Mordin either flirt/tease my male Shepard.

From the Wiki: http://masseffect.wi...ki/Mordin_Solus

"If Shepard is pursuing a relationship, Mordin will give medical or personal advice, or—if Shepard has no romantic interests aboard the Normandy but frequently speaks to Mordin—tease Shepard by asking if the Commander is attracted to him. Mordin will then decline entering into a relationship, and if Shepard accepts this refusal, Mordin will state "If wanted to try human, would try you." (regardless of Shepard's gender)."

It makes sense that interspecies sex would be more open regardless of gender, but its perfect with salarians. They don't even have a normal sex drive, and they reproduce by fertilizing eggs. No concept of love, at least not romantic kind.

[Luigitornado]

Rojahar wrote...

As for the populist demographic arguments, if people want to argue that because homosexuals represent a small percentage of the population, that it means there shouldn't be any homosexual content, then doesn't that mean FemShep should be removed from the game? Afterall, Bioware cites that less than 20% even bother playing FemShep at all. Should we start removing LIs and dialog options that aren't the majority? Hey, the majority chooses Paragon, so lets get rid of even the option to go Renegade?

I think the argument stems from it being believable if your entire crew is made up of bisexuals. 

[jlb524]

Luigitornado wrote...
An entire bi crew is limiting incentives for diversifying play throughs. If you truly believe more options are better and less limitations are better, then I will make the argument that Bioware should scrap the paragon/renegade system, and the class system because their only purpose is to limit the player.

The Paragon/Renegade system provides more options to the players in the same way romances do (i.e., do I want to romance Tali/Miranda/Garrus/etc.?)  It's another optional way you can play, just like romances.

What you want is to limit some game options based on gender...that's like limiting morality choices (whether you go Paragon/Renegade) based on gender.  But the choice to go Paragon/Renegade is independent of the Shepard you create, including gender.

I want to diversify my pt's by romancing Liara in one and Miranda in the next. 

It's b/c of one decision I made before playing the game (male vs. female) that I'm limited to seeing content, and not due to how I actually play the game when I get started (i.e., Paragon/Renegade).

[Sundance31us]

Luigitornado wrote...
It is one the few diversifications between playing as male or female, and it is an incentive to get players to choose to play through as the different gender. 

With DAO I would agree with you to a point, but ME and DA2 are different.

I tried playing a female character in DA2, but had to stop when lady Hawk's hip movement started giving me ocular whiplash. I'd love to explore the Kaidan romance, but I do not care for and will not play femShep (no offence to her loyal army).

[shepskisaac]

Once again, why are you even discussing 'all bi' scenario? This is NOT going to happen in ME3.

Casey Hudson tweeted...

Some game sites saying "previously straight chars now available for both m&f chars" not necessarily true. Will have some new LI's in #ME3
twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/70154686367404032

Mac Walters tweeted...

Some, but not all characters will be available for same sex relationships.
twitter.com/#!/macwalterslives/status/102503866595160066

I'm just gonna keep posting this until Luigitornado stops trying to dereail the topic with his desperate 'zomg not all bi!!!" argument

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 août 2011 - 07:36 .

[Nashiktal]

Luigitornado wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...
I don't want entire bisexual crew because it would limit the diversification between playing as male Shepard and female Shepard. If you want to romance Garus, then play as female Shepard. If you want to romance Tali, then play as male Shepard. The more the genders play alike, the less reason I have for choosing one over the other.

I personally don't ever want to play as male Shepard, so I don't care about 'diversity between the genders'.  There's nothing wrong with that.  In addition, consider that some people only like playing heterosexual romances while some only do homosexual ones, so the 'all bisexual thing' would be a non-issue here as far as 'lack of motivation to play as the other gender.'  Even if Garrus is available to MaleShep, I bet most would be uncomfortable romancing him with a male so will roll a female for it.

Luigitornado wrote...
You may argue that getting rid of gender-based romances would just increase the amount of options, and respectively the amount of play throughs, but not for me. With limitatations come more incentives to play as a different gender. And let's be honest, Bioware would put no thought into differing conversation points when having an increased amount of s/s options. Male Shepard romance with Garus, would be exactly the same as the Female Shepard romance with Garus. This whole argument is coming off as being immature demand of some fans; even though some fans who don't want the feature are being immature about it themselves.

Limitations = a good thing that gives us the incentives to diversifying play throughs.

Not always and not for everyone.  You speak from your own experience.  For me, these limitations lead to less playthroughs.

So if Garrus was available for both gender of Shepard and you wanted to romance him, you would do so with a male Shepard? 

How is this demand 'immature'?

I want Bioware to rid ME of the class system, renegade/paragon system, and leveling system. All are limitations of how I want to play the game, and only decrease the amount of options that limit the amount of my play throughs. 

With balanced limitations comes diversifications, that offer incentives for players to play a differently during their second play through. Once players realize that their choices do not shape on the game, then there is no incentive to play the game again.

Not to mention that limitations in story -- including romances, gives Bioware the tools for a more compelling narrative with different reactionaries: Jack saying no to FemShep. 

Ironically enough I agree with your statement despite your intent. If they got rid of classes, you could build your own custom shep. If they got rid of paragon/renegade we could actually have our own morality and perhaps have a more logical persuasion, if they got rid of a leveling system, we could experiment new ways of advancing our shep's ability to grow.

These DO NOT DECREASE OPTIONS. They open them up. If what you said decreased options, well oblivion must be barren. 

[Luigitornado]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

It is one the few diversifications between playing as male or female, and it is an incentive to get players to choose to play through as the different gender. 

I really can not get simplier than that. Other than very few conversation points, there is no reason why a player would choose to play as the different gender during their second play through other than to see how the game would change.

This is assuming that players pick their preferred gender of Shepard based on who they want to romance eventually, and I could almost assure you that this is not the case.

Yep. But once they play through the game once, and realize they could not romance a certain character with their chosen gender, then that might be an inenstive to play as the opposite gender....all of which Bioware seems to want.

If the player wines about not wanting to play as the other gender to romance a certain character, then that's their own problem, and they are not enjoying the product to its fullest. 

[bleetman]

I'm sorry, I'm somewhat slow in the head. You'll have to explain something for me.

Hypothetical: There are six crew members available for romance. Three are male, three are female. Romancing them all would require six playthroughs, three of each gender.

There are six crew members available for romance. Three are male, three are female, all are bi-sexual. Romancing them all would require six playthroughs, between one and six for each gender.

...And this is supposed to discourage repeat playthroughs... how? I'd not consider what gender the player character was as some defining diversifying factor either, both Shepards being the same person with different voices.

Modifié par bleetman, 22 août 2011 - 07:37 .

[Luigitornado]

Rojahar wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

I think the argument stems from it being believable if your entire crew is made up of bisexuals. 

As opposed to every female on the crew desperately wanting you? Tali, Liara, Ashley... Oh hey, that's every female from ME1, and they all desperately want to have sex with male Shepard and no one else.

Tali does not show interest in Shepard in ME1
Liara is attractive to both Shepards
Ashley might have interest in Kaiden if you play as fem Shepard.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Luigitornado wrote...

Yep. But once they play through the game once, and realize they could not romance a certain character with their chosen gender, then that might be an inenstive to play as the opposite gender....all of which Bioware seems to want.

If the player wines about not wanting to play as the other gender to romance a certain character, then that's their own problem, and they are not enjoying the product to its fullest. 

So you're saying if a manshep player plays through his game, but feels a budding want to romance Garrus, this will get him to play femshep?

I don't think that's how it works at all.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 22 août 2011 - 07:37 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Eski.Moe wrote...

CommanderJessica wrote...

GodWood wrote...

CommanderJessica wrote...
And Tali's mum needed to open her suit to give birth..?
I don't see why a Quarian would just open up their suit, risking illnesses and fever, just to prove a point.

Shala'Raan and Tali's mother synchronised suits so that they could be in the same clean room for Tali's birth.

I meanttttt, why would Tali open her suit for femshep, just to prove trust.

Perhaps it's simply that. It's the ultimate sign of trust for a Quarian and she's extending that to Shep. No need to dig into it much further. 

In the profile on Tali in The Lair of The Shadow Broker it states that she downloaded a book about human sexuality and mating reguardless of Shepard's gender.  

[Luigitornado]

bleetman wrote...

I'm sorry, I'm somewhat slow in the head. You'll have to explain something for me.

Hypothetical: There are six crew members available for romance. Three are male, three are female. Romancing them all would require six playthroughs, three of each gender.

There are six crew members available for romance. Three are male, three are female. Romancing them all would require six playthroughs, between one and six for each gender.

...And this is supposed to discourage repeat playthroughs... how? I'd not consider what gender the player character was as some defining diversifying factor myself, both Shepards are the same person with different voices.

The differences of the play through becomes null becasuse there are no incentives. Dialogue would stay the same, and the changes would be soulless. 

Modifié par Luigitornado, 22 août 2011 - 07:37 .

[Luigitornado]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Yep. But once they play through the game once, and realize they could not romance a certain character with their chosen gender, then that might be an inenstive to play as the opposite gender....all of which Bioware seems to want.

If the player wines about not wanting to play as the other gender to romance a certain character, then that's their own problem, and they are not enjoying the product to its fullest. 

So you're saying if a manshep player plays through his game, but feels a budding want to romance Garrus, this will get him to play femshep?

I don't think that's how it works at all.

If they are into playing roleplaying games, then it will. 

[Deviija]

I'd prefer is Garrus was one of the LIs that are open to s/s relations in ME3. I'd be fine with Tali being open to this as well. But barring her, then I'm fine with Miranda filling that role instead.

It seems easier with the Garrus and Tali characters, imo. Tali idolizes Shepard and is a little obsessed no matter what gender you are, Garrus talks an awful lot about how he doesn't understand humans and how they differ/courtship/it's all the same to him, so it's not a giant step to have him fall for a human without knowing the relevance of their gender in human terms. I could say the same for Tali, maybe, as well. And the two of them have been with the series the longest, so it would have a bit more plot and character development, I think, for the long term fans of the series and can make plausible sense in their character arcs as is. Just my two cents.

(Sidenote, all I know is that I hope there are male-male choices enough to make up for Liara and Kelly. )

[Sundance31us]

IsaacShep wrote...
Once again, why are you even discussing 'all bi' scenario? This is NOT going to happen in ME3.

Fear of tribbles syndrome, once one is allowed on the Normandy they’ll be everywhere?

[Zkyire]

Xilizhra wrote...

So thanks for ignoring that.

Given that you were arguing against the s/s side with your previous line, I'd guessed that you were saying we should stop worrying about having romances that fit us because it was a video game.

I've never argued against the S/S romances. Ever.

I have argued against individual poster's attitudes.

But never against the goal itself.