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[M8DMAN]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

M8DMAN wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Carfax wrote...

I'm glad Bioware isn't going down the same road as DA2 with going overboard on the homosexuality, because that would make them open to the same backlash.

A lot of people don't care to see homosexuality when they're playing video games, while many obviously want it in their games.

The best thing for Bioware to do would be to leave previous characters and their sexual orientation unchanged, while making new characters available for S/S.

That would be fair to both groups I believe.

Oh god the DA2 arguments.

This forum is so sad I might cry.

Dragon Age 2 was so sad It made me cry.

I think so too. But it wasn't because of the s/s romances.

I agree. It was the bad writing and the short dev time that killed DA2.

Modifié par M8DMAN, 22 août 2011 - 08:12 .

[M8DMAN]

IsaacShep wrote...

M8DMAN wrote...

Thanks for posting that Isaac. I wish some people would read this before posting the same crap ad nauseum

Sorry to say that but your previous "DA2 s/s romances were oh-so horrible!" post falls in the same category...

Everything about DA2 was horrible.  Hell, even the straight romances were horrible.

[Sundance31us]

M8DMAN wrote...
Everything about DA2 was horrible.  Hell, even the straight romances were horrible.

/sarcasm on

What wasn't to like about the..

• Pirate sl*t.
• Clueless bloodmage.
• Celibate priest.
• Emo x-slave.
• Abomination.

/sarcasm off

[Carfax]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Oh god the DA2 arguments.

This forum is so sad I might cry.

I think you need to read my post again.  I was responding to the fact that Casey Hudson's tweets make it clear that ME3 will NOT be like DA2, in that all LIs would be romanceable by both genders.

[shepskisaac]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
Sorry, I was jumping the gun. It's just that the DA2 arguments are really annoying to me.

Same here. I never played it, but I have no doubts all the 'everything was sit in DA2' arguments are gross extravagation, just as with 'everything was **** in Deus Ex: Invisible War/Splinter Cell: Conviction/any other less succesful & hardcore sequel'. Where these games dumbed down? Yeah, most likely it would be an objective opionion. Were they total **** without a single value? Hell to the no. But that's the hardcore gamers' mentality. If it ain't 90+ on MetaCritic and/or dumbs down some of the mechanics, then it automatically means every single bit of art/design was total crap.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 août 2011 - 08:22 .

[bellabri287]

wow... and here i came to this thread thinking it was going to discuss the possible betrayal Kaidan/Ashley could feel knowing/seeing Shep in a romantic relationship with Garrus/Tali. That could be a issue...

[Sundance31us]

IsaacShep wrote...
Same here. I never played it, but I have no doubts all the 'everything was sit in DA2' arguments are gross extravagation, just as with 'everything was **** in Deus Ex: Invisible War/Splinter Cell: Conviction/any other less succesful & hardcore sequel'. Where these games dumbed down? Yeah, most likely it would be an objective opionion. Were they total **** without a single value? Hell to the no. But that's the hardcore gamers' mentality. If it ain't 90+ on MetaCritic and/or dumbs down some of the mechanics, then it automatically means every single bit of art/design was total crap.

I actually enjoyed the game, but found things to be a little...overacted at times to the point where I haven’t replayed it.

[Zkyire]

M8DMAN wrote...
Garrus trying to flirt with my Male Shepard is something I do NOT want to see in ME 3.

Well Garrus didn't flirt with FemShep until Femshep (blatantly) initiated it.

So unless you playing as MaleShep comes up to Garrus like “Hey Garrus, I don't know if you're into me but I like the cut of your jib.” then not seeing Garrus trying to flirt with you isn't going to be an issue.

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 22 août 2011 - 08:32 .

[BubbleSauce]

IsaacShep wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
Sorry, I was jumping the gun. It's just that the DA2 arguments are really annoying to me.

Same here. I never played it, but I have no doubts all the 'everything was sit in DA2' arguments are gross extravagation, just as with 'everything was **** in Deus Ex: Invisible War/Splinter Cell: Conviction/any other less succesful & hardcore sequel'. Where these games dumbed down? Yeah, most likely it would be an objective opionion. Were they total **** without a single value? Hell to the no. But that's the hardcore gamers' mentality. If it ain't 90+ on MetaCritic and/or dumbs down some of the mechanics, then it automatically means every single bit of art/design was total crap.

Dragon Age 2 is no where near as bad as everyone says it is, it's bloody weird, I'll give you that, as a big fan of the origanal dragon age, I was really left scratching my head as to why they felt the need to redo the entire combat system, oh, and I like how they had my favourite character in awakening, possesed by another one of your party members in awakening, it was certainly odd, but wasn't an inherently bad game, it doesn't hold a candle to the original, but a lot of sequels don't anyway.

Although I have to disagree with you, invisible war was about as fun getting your d*ck caught in a revolving door, and putting that iraq flashback in a splinter cell game was as bad an idea as giving yourself a nose job with a cheese grater. 'nuff said...

[Carfax]

Rojahar wrote...

That's all beside the point though. How is having nearly every woman Shepard encounters fall prey to his charm and lust after him... on a military vessel, on a military mission... any more "realistic" than Shepard being able to persuade (if the player chooses so) some existing crew members to try homosexuality just as Shepard can persuade Garrus or Tali to try out sex with humans? The argument I'm curious about is why ALL of the established LIs are off-limits. What if only Ashley and Kaiden were made bi-possible? What would the objection be then?

LOL, this is ridiculous.  First off, you are trying to equate homosexuality with heterosexuality, when they are not on equal footing.  Heterosexuality is the default sexuality in humans, and in other creatures that rely on sexual reproduction.  Homosexaulity is nothing but a fringe sexuality, practiced by a very small segment of the population.

You are also saying that sexuality is something thats changeable, when all research says that our sexual orientation is hard wired before we're even born.

You can't "persuade" someone to try homosexuality or be homosexual, unless they themselves have bicurious or bisexual tendencies. 

Why can't Jack be bisexual? She IS bisexual, according to the story and game. Shepard has dialog files for a lesbian romance with Miranda. Why are all previous LIs not allowed to be bi? It's not even like it would require work to implement them. Look up "Gay Kaiden" on YouTube. The romances in ME1, for example, were so vaguely worded that even just changing gender flags led to an entire romance storyline without plot holes or dialog errors. It made sense still.

I wouldn't oppose Jack being available to FemShep in ME3, as she is bisexual (with more of a leaning towards men it seems).  However, Miranda is not bisexual, and neither is Ashley.

Bioware never stated the reason why dialogue files for S/S romances exist for LIs, but it's obvious that if they were going to be used, they would have been used already.

Neither Ashley or Miranda were ever presented as being bisexual in the actual game dialogue, unlike Liara and Jack.

The point is, it seems like people are grasping at straws to try and think up excuses to limit homosexuality in ME as much as possible. It seems like the motivation of most is simply that they are homophobic, and don't want "the gay agenda" or whatever "tainting" their game. If people just don't like homosexuality, and want it as far away from them as possible, I wish people would just state it. If that's not their motivation, then as I said, I'm interesting in hearing a solid argument for being so blanketly against it other than personal taste.

Homosexuality limits itself due to it's very nature..  As I said earlier, you can't equate heterosexuality and homosexuality, because they are not on equal footing.

It isn't as though half the human population is gay, and the other half straight now is it?  And yet you want homosexuality to be given the exact same treatment as heterosexuality in the game

[Sundance31us]

Maturity, not for everyone evidently. 

[Warlock Adam]

Carfax wrote...

LOL, this is ridiculous.  First off, you are trying to equate homosexuality with heterosexuality, when they are not on equal footing.  Heterosexuality is the default sexuality in humans, and in other creatures that rely on sexual reproduction.  Homosexaulity is nothing but a fringe sexuality, practiced by a very small segment of the population.

Homosexuality limits itself due to it's very nature..  As I said earlier, you can't equate heterosexuality and homosexuality, because they are not on equal footing.

It isn't as though half the human population is gay, and the other half straight now is it?  And yet you want homosexuality to be given the exact same treatment as heterosexuality in the game

[shepskisaac]

Carfax wrote...

LOL, this is ridiculous.  First off, you are trying to equate homosexuality with heterosexuality, when they are not on equal footing.

He's not doing it, he's equating the probability of every single female on board of one vessel to being into the same guy (not very likely) with the probability of all LIs being bisexual (also not very likely).

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 août 2011 - 08:46 .

[bellabri287]

jreezy wrote...

bellabri287 wrote...

wow... and here i came to this thread thinking it was going to discuss the possible betrayal Kaidan/Ashley could feel knowing/seeing Shep in a romantic relationship with Garrus/Tali. That could be a issue...

Not for Kaidan. He understands the attraction people have with alien species. Ashley on the other hand...

Actually what I am talking about has nothing to do with wether or not it's right for those relationships to have happened, that is not the point.  They were a team when they defeated Saren.  They trusted one another.  It must have been obvious that Shep was involved with A/K after Shep died,  knowing that A/K had a relatioship with Shep and seeing A/K grieve and then actually having a relationship with Shep is a total slap to A/K.  I can see A/K getting pissed at G/T for having a relatiohip when they knew about A/K and Shep's relationship.  G/T would possibly bring up Horizon, blah blah blah...

EDIT: OMG I just turned ME3 into a daytime soap if this happens...

Modifié par bellabri287, 22 août 2011 - 08:47 .

[Carfax]

IsaacShep wrote...
He's not doing it, he's equating the probability of every single female on board of one vessel to being into the same guy (not very likely) with the probability of all LIs being bisexual (also not very likely).

Well you can thank Bioware for that, since they actively tried to portray Sheploo as "James Bond" in space, or another Captain Kirk, and we all know both of those characters managed to nail any thing female that crossed their path.

Also, it isn't rare to see lots of women (not every woman though) be interested in a single man in tight quarters with limited prospects, due to women being genetically programmed to seek out the highest quality mates.  Ask anyone that ever served in the Military or especially, on a Navy Ship.

Most women are drawn whether they want to or not to alpha male types, and Shepard is nothing if not an alpha male.

On the flipside, men are drawn in droves to very attractive women in the same situations.  I have a few stories I could tell you about that

Modifié par Carfax, 22 août 2011 - 08:56 .

[leggywillow]

Luigitornado wrote...

I think the argument stems from it being believable if your entire crew is made up of bisexuals.

It always fascinates me what stretches the limits of a person's suspension of disbelief.

Half the alien species we meet evolved to be bipedal?  Out of all the evolutionary options, we ended up with a species (asari) that seems to be extremely similar to humans?  The idea that humans are sexually compatible with any of the alien species we meet is pretty far-fetched.

And yet it often seems to come down to this on the forums: BUT HAVING 4 BISEXUALS IN THE SAME VICINITY JUST ISN'T REALISTIC.  It's very, very strange to me.

[shepskisaac]

Carfax wrote...

Well you can thank Bioware for that, since they actively tried to portray Sheploo as "James Bond" in space, or another Captain Kirk, and we all know both of those characters managed to nail any thing female that crossed their path.

So it's justified because style came before realism? You've been arguing realism should come first. If that's the case, you can't argue realism should come first when it is about bi LIs but not when it's about every female being into the same male.

Carfax wrote...
Also, it isn't rare to see lots of women (not every woman though) be interested in a single man in tight quarters with limited prospects, due to women being genetically programmed to seek out the highest quality mates.  Ask anyone that ever served in the Military or especially, on a Navy Ship.

Yeah, you forgot there's also drop-dead handsome & succesful Kaidan & Jacob on board. And badass Zaeed. And if they're into aliens, there's Garrus & Thane. Asari are known to be into Krogans so there are super badass & masculine Wrex & Grunt etc. They're all, or nearly all alpha males. Yet no female's into anyone but Shepard. Gimme a break.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 août 2011 - 09:07 .

[Carfax]

IsaacShep wrote...

So it's justified because style came before realism? You've been arguing realism should come first. If that's the case, you can't argue realism should come first when it is about bi LIs but not when it's about every female being into the same male.

I'm not saying it's justified, just that thats how Bioware intended to portray Shepard when they created his character.

In how many interviews did Bioware reps equate Shepard to James Bond, or Captain Kirk? 

Thats part of the reason why I think there was such a delay in giving MaleShep a gay love interest, because Bioware had invested so much effort into making him into a James Bond like character (for marketing reasons), and James Bond was never interested in sausage.

Looks like EA convinced/ordered them to finally have a gay love interest for Sheploo though.

Carfax wrote...Yeah, you forgot there's also drop-dead handsome & succesful Kaidan & Jacob on board. And badass Zaeed. And if they're into aliens, there's Garrus, Asari are known to be into Krogans so there are super badass & masculine Wrex & Grunt etc. They're all, or nearly all alpha males. Yet no female's into anyone but Shepard. Gimme a break.

In ME1, Ashley expresses interest in Kaidan if you play as FemShep if I'm not mistaken?  Also, Kasumi expresses an interest in Jacob in ME2 if Shepard is male..

We also know that Jacob and Miranda had a previous fling.  Oh, and I remember Kaidan saying that Liara was "easy on the eyes."

Modifié par Carfax, 22 août 2011 - 09:19 .

[shepskisaac]

Carfax wrote...

I'm not saying it's justified, just that thats how Bioware intended to portray Shepard when they created his character.

In how many interviews did Bioware reps equate Shepard to James Bond, or Captain Kirk? 

Thats part of the reason why I think there was such a delay in giving MaleShep a gay love interest, because Bioware had invested so much effort into making him into a James Bond like character (for marketing reasons), and James Bond was never interested in sausage.

Looks like EA convinced/ordered them to finally have a gay love interest for Sheploo though.

Then why do you post it as an argument? In the end, style still came before realism, which means realism is not always the most important if it's about providing the players lots of options. It's an RPG afterall, so it's only naturally their goal to give as many options as possible.

Carfax wrote...
In ME1, Ashley expresses interest in Kaidan if you play as FemShep if I'm not mistaken?  Also, Kasumi expresses an interest in Jacob in ME2 if Shepard is male..

Yes Kasumi would be one single example. But then of course, it never goes anywhere other than appreciation while Shep can go all the way to bed with all the chicks. As for Ash, it was just her sister saying Kaidan's cute which only happens if you turn Ash down.

Carfax wrote...

We also know that Jacob and Miranda had a previous fling.

Which ended just in time for ME2 so Shep could bang them. Again, the goal to provide lots of options came before realism.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 août 2011 - 09:19 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Carfax wrote...

I'm not saying it's justified, just that thats how Bioware intended to portray Shepard when they created his character.

In how many interviews did Bioware reps equate Shepard to James Bond, or Captain Kirk? 

Thats part of the reason why I think there was such a delay in giving MaleShep a gay love interest, because Bioware had invested so much effort into making him into a James Bond like character (for marketing reasons), and James Bond was never interested in sausage.

Looks like EA convinced/ordered them to finally have a gay love interest for Sheploo though.

EA didn't convince them to do anything.  They aren't "ordering" s/s for TOR for example.  This was a decision made by the Bioware developers -- they didn't HAVE to add anything if they didn't want to.

The notion that "Sheploo" is somehow a James Bond and paragon of heterosexuality is ridiculous, because he's not a static character.

In ME1, Ashley expresses interest in Kaidan if you play as FemShep if I'm not mistaken?  Also, Kasumi expresses an interest in Jacob in ME2 if Shepard is male..

We also know that Jacob and Miranda had a previous fling.

Ashley's sister says he's cute I think but she definitely does not move to pursue.  Neither does any other character for that matter.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 22 août 2011 - 09:23 .