997 réponses à ce sujet

[Zyandrel]

Agamo45 wrote...

Deejtage wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

You cannot be a true Christian while being a practicing homosexual. There is a huge contradiction there. It's that simple.

You cannot be a true Christian if you eat shellfish. Next.

You know nothing.

Actually, he's right.

If you want to sweep all those other sins under the run, sweep homosexuality under the rug too.  Because last I checked christianity was about loving thy neighbor.  So either you accept that you can't eat shellfish, wear clothes of mixed fabric, can't be gay or.... you can do all of those so long as you love everyone.

There is no middle ground here.

If you say "Homosexuality is bad" and then try and say "The shellfish and mixed fabric thing doesn't count" you're a hippocrite.  Period.

[Boiny Bunny]

Rojahar wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Then those people shouldn't be Christians.

The Bible is not friendly to homosexuals. Any Christians who is needs to take a step back and realise that they're not following their supposed holy text, and either do what the book says, or leave the damned religion behind where it belongs.

The original point this little argument seemed to stem from though is someone claiming Ash can't possibly be an S/S romance because she appears to be a devout Christian. As people mentioned though, there are MANY prominent people who appear to be a devout Christian, even moreso than Ashley, and we learn they're homosexuals, or at least bisexuals. Ashley already participates in premartial sex, so how is homosexuality somehow impossible?

Indeed.  This quoted post should end this thread.

If you want to talk about being a 'true' Christian, Ashley clearly does not meet this description.  Sex before marriage.  Big no no.  The game doesn't make it clear either - but fairly sure some kind of contraceptive is being used there too.  Another big no no...

[Tommy6860]

ipgd wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...
Judeo-Christian philosophy is clear regarding homosexuality and Ashley seems devout. No, it wouldn't make sense at all for her to be a lesbian.

So there are no Judeo-Christian homosexuals?

If they practice homosexual behavior, no.

Last time I checked, homosexuality didn't have some sort of elevated status above all other sins that also excommunicates you from your religion. There are plenty of homosexual Judeo-Christians, just like there are plenty of Judeo-Christian thieves, murderers, adulterers, liars, shellfish eaters, etc., etc.

Then those people shouldn't be Christians.

The Bible is not friendly to homosexuals. Any Christians who is needs to take a step back and realise that they're not following their supposed holy text, and either do what the book says, or leave the damned religion behind where it belongs.

Have you ever eaten shellfish? Have you ever worn a cotton-polyester blend? Have you ever had premarital sex? Have you ever worked on the sabbath? Have you ever been near or touched a menstruating woman? Have you ever cursed your parents? If so, you are a sinner and should not be a Christian. Actually, if we're taking Biblical laws seriously, a couple of those mandate that you should have been killed.

Good points^. I wish there were such a thing as a "Hammer of Agnosticism" (like from Oblivion), and that I could hit a few of those people on the head with it, and hope for the proper effect .

[leggywillow]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

You may have noticed that there were a few character 'betrayals' present in DA2 as well (in relation to this thread, Anders became gay if you were manHawke and decided to romance him).

The answer: Bioware don't care. Gameplay > Lore, from their design standpoint.

::shrieks wildly and rips all her hair out::  AFSLJIAFLJKJDLSKFKJFDSFLKKLJASKLJSKJAF:LK

[ipgd]

Agamo45 wrote...

You quoted archaic laws that no longer apply, such as the mixed-fabric verse. The coming of Christ washed those away. The law against homosexuality still very much applies, as there are verses about it in the New Testament.
In any case, the main point is that it would be bad-storytelling and blatant fanservice on Bioware's part to make established characters gay, especially ones like Ashley.

lolnope

[Tommy6860]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Then those people shouldn't be Christians.

The Bible is not friendly to homosexuals. Any Christians who is needs to take a step back and realise that they're not following their supposed holy text, and either do what the book says, or leave the damned religion behind where it belongs.

The original point this little argument seemed to stem from though is someone claiming Ash can't possibly be an S/S romance because she appears to be a devout Christian. As people mentioned though, there are MANY prominent people who appear to be a devout Christian, even moreso than Ashley, and we learn they're homosexuals, or at least bisexuals. Ashley already participates in premartial sex, so how is homosexuality somehow impossible?

Indeed.  This quoted post should end this thread.

If you want to talk about being a 'true' Christian, Ashley clearly does not meet this description.  Sex before marriage.  Big no no.  The game doesn't make it clear either - but fairly sure some kind of contraceptive is being used there too.  Another big no no...

It doesn't even argue that she's a Christian, only that she mentions a belief in God, and she doesn't say what/which God, IIRC. Even then, most of her beliefs when she discusses them, regards her family, her father and his military serice and the bigotry she developed for other non-human species. In any case, she also never lays claim to sexual morality in all of her dialogue, so I don't see any of this being  a factor.

[EDITED]

Modifié par Tommy6860, 22 août 2011 - 11:30 .

[Zkyire]

Her God could be Cthulu.

[shepskisaac]

Agamo45 wrote...

You quoted archaic laws that no longer apply, such as the mixed-fabric verse. The coming of Christ washed those away. The law against homosexuality still very much applies, as there are verses about it in the New Testament.

Brilliant, I knew you would say it. Yes, we're left with the New Testament. If you're such a great Christian as you say, you will of course know the only person in the New Testament who's against homosexuality is "Saint" Paul. The same one who supports slavery. :happy: What sane, Christian person will follow anything a fan of slavery says?

Agamo45 wrote...
In any case, the main point is that it would be bad-storytelling and blatant fanservice on Bioware's part to make established characters gay, especially ones like Ashley.

Yeah right, you've already exposed your true (religious) reasons why you don't want it. And that's the point of all these anti s/s threads. After 10 pages, it always comes out why do people actually don't want it. And surprise surprise, it's always either religion brought up or 'homosexuality is a choice'. Every thread ends the same way. But at the begining, all the anti s/s people always pretend it's about "established characters", nevermind these characters were never established as exclusively straight.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 août 2011 - 11:32 .

[Boiny Bunny]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Then those people shouldn't be Christians.

The Bible is not friendly to homosexuals. Any Christians who is needs to take a step back and realise that they're not following their supposed holy text, and either do what the book says, or leave the damned religion behind where it belongs.

The original point this little argument seemed to stem from though is someone claiming Ash can't possibly be an S/S romance because she appears to be a devout Christian. As people mentioned though, there are MANY prominent people who appear to be a devout Christian, even moreso than Ashley, and we learn they're homosexuals, or at least bisexuals. Ashley already participates in premartial sex, so how is homosexuality somehow impossible?

Indeed.  This quoted post should end this thread.

If you want to talk about being a 'true' Christian, Ashley clearly does not meet this description.  Sex before marriage.  Big no no.  The game doesn't make it clear either - but fairly sure some kind of contraceptive is being used there too.  Another big no no...

It doesn't even argue that she's a Christian, only that she mentions a belief in God, and she doesn't say what/which God, IIRC. Even then, most of her beliefs when she discusses them, regards her family, her father and his military serice and the bigotry she developed for other non-human species. In any case, she also never lays claim to sexual morality in all of her dialogue, so I don't see any of this being  a factor.

[EDITED]

That's actually true - not sure where the presumption that she was a devout Christian came from...She could follow any religion that has a 'God' for all we know (potentially including new religions that have sprung up between present day and the time ME is set in) - is there any source that discusses her faith in some more depth than one or two conversations in game?

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 22 août 2011 - 11:33 .

[Zyandrel]

This is also assuming that christianity has stayed the same as its current incarnation. You know, the whole aliens and proving that humans aren't the only living, sentients in the galaxy might muddle some of the doctrine a bit. Not to mention a simple evolution. Who is to say that in 50 years christianity might find a document that says "Homosexuality A-okay!" or simply it is voted on and deemed no longer a sin.

[Agamo45]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Then those people shouldn't be Christians.

The Bible is not friendly to homosexuals. Any Christians who is needs to take a step back and realise that they're not following their supposed holy text, and either do what the book says, or leave the damned religion behind where it belongs.

The original point this little argument seemed to stem from though is someone claiming Ash can't possibly be an S/S romance because she appears to be a devout Christian. As people mentioned though, there are MANY prominent people who appear to be a devout Christian, even moreso than Ashley, and we learn they're homosexuals, or at least bisexuals. Ashley already participates in premartial sex, so how is homosexuality somehow impossible?

Indeed.  This quoted post should end this thread.

If you want to talk about being a 'true' Christian, Ashley clearly does not meet this description.  Sex before marriage.  Big no no.  The game doesn't make it clear either - but fairly sure some kind of contraceptive is being used there too.  Another big no no...

It doesn't even argue that she's a Christian, only that she mentions a belief in God, and she doesn't say what/which God, IIRC. Even then, most of her beliefs when she discusses them, regards her family, her father and his military serice and the bigotry she developed for other non-human species. In any case, she also never lays claim to sexual morality in all of her dialogue, so I don't see any of this being  a factor.

[EDITED]

She mentions a singular 'God', which most likely means she is a follower of one of the 3 Abrahamic religions, all three of which reject homosexuality.

[LilyasAvalon]

...How the frick did you people start talking about Christianity in all this?

[Zkyire]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

...How the frick did you people start talking about Christianity in all this?

Ashley going bisexual.

[Zyandrel]

Agamo45 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Then those people shouldn't be Christians.

The Bible is not friendly to homosexuals. Any Christians who is needs to take a step back and realise that they're not following their supposed holy text, and either do what the book says, or leave the damned religion behind where it belongs.

The original point this little argument seemed to stem from though is someone claiming Ash can't possibly be an S/S romance because she appears to be a devout Christian. As people mentioned though, there are MANY prominent people who appear to be a devout Christian, even moreso than Ashley, and we learn they're homosexuals, or at least bisexuals. Ashley already participates in premartial sex, so how is homosexuality somehow impossible?

Indeed.  This quoted post should end this thread.

If you want to talk about being a 'true' Christian, Ashley clearly does not meet this description.  Sex before marriage.  Big no no.  The game doesn't make it clear either - but fairly sure some kind of contraceptive is being used there too.  Another big no no...

It doesn't even argue that she's a Christian, only that she mentions a belief in God, and she doesn't say what/which God, IIRC. Even then, most of her beliefs when she discusses them, regards her family, her father and his military serice and the bigotry she developed for other non-human species. In any case, she also never lays claim to sexual morality in all of her dialogue, so I don't see any of this being  a factor.

[EDITED]

She mentions a singular 'God', which most likely means she is a follower of one of the 3 Abrahamic religions, all three of which reject homosexuality.

And you're sure that said christian values are the same at that time (well over 100 years in the future) as they are now?

[jbblue05]

Zyandrel wrote...

This is also assuming that christianity has stayed the same as its current incarnation. You know, the whole aliens and proving that humans aren't the only living, sentients in the galaxy might muddle some of the doctrine a bit. Not to mention a simple evolution. Who is to say that in 50 years christianity might find a document that says "Homosexuality A-okay!" or simply it is voted on and deemed no longer a sin.

with God's approval of courseB)

[darkangelvxvx]

I cant help but laugh at all of this still!

Btw... wasnt... um... "Tali/Garrus = Character Development... But S/S = Character Betrayal" the concept of the entire plugged thread?

[ipgd]

IsaacShep wrote...

Yeah right, you've already exposed your true (religious) reasons why you don't want it. And that's the point of all these anti s/s threads. After 10 pages, it always comes out why do people actually don't want it. And surprise surprise, it's always either religion brought up or 'homosexuality is a choice'. Every thread ends the same way. But at the begining, all the anti s/s people always pretend it's about "established characters", nevermind these characters were never established as exclusively straight.

To be fair, religion isn't the reason for these posters' bigotries. Religion is the justification for an underlying bigotry that cannot be defended in any matter other than the refuge in irrationality that is religious faith. Their prejudice would exist with or without their religion; that their religion would seem to confirm their preconceived judgments is merely a convenience.

[jbblue05]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

...How the frick did you people start talking about Christianity in all this?

Apparently Ash was a devout Christhian the whole time=]

[Cartims]

So does the Catholics church....but it never stopped the priests. (pedos)....AMEN....religion comes from the heart, not the genitalia. or any freaking book...ok

[Sundance31us]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...
Ashley going bisexual.

This is all Asley's fault? I left her on Virmire with the bomb, which explains why everything blew up.

[Agamo45]

Zyandrel wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Then those people shouldn't be Christians.

The Bible is not friendly to homosexuals. Any Christians who is needs to take a step back and realise that they're not following their supposed holy text, and either do what the book says, or leave the damned religion behind where it belongs.

The original point this little argument seemed to stem from though is someone claiming Ash can't possibly be an S/S romance because she appears to be a devout Christian. As people mentioned though, there are MANY prominent people who appear to be a devout Christian, even moreso than Ashley, and we learn they're homosexuals, or at least bisexuals. Ashley already participates in premartial sex, so how is homosexuality somehow impossible?

Indeed.  This quoted post should end this thread.

If you want to talk about being a 'true' Christian, Ashley clearly does not meet this description.  Sex before marriage.  Big no no.  The game doesn't make it clear either - but fairly sure some kind of contraceptive is being used there too.  Another big no no...

It doesn't even argue that she's a Christian, only that she mentions a belief in God, and she doesn't say what/which God, IIRC. Even then, most of her beliefs when she discusses them, regards her family, her father and his military serice and the bigotry she developed for other non-human species. In any case, she also never lays claim to sexual morality in all of her dialogue, so I don't see any of this being  a factor.

[EDITED]

She mentions a singular 'God', which most likely means she is a follower of one of the 3 Abrahamic religions, all three of which reject homosexuality.

And you're sure that said christian values are the same at that time (well over 100 years in the future) as they are now?

The values have lasted for over 2000 years, I don't see why not.

[Zkyire]

Zyandrel wrote...


And you're sure that said christian values are the same at that time (well over 100 years in the future) as they are now?

Just shows how pointless it is as nothing in the Bible actually matters as people just label themselves Christian but don't actually adhere to anything their "holy text" dictates.

Like Ashley.

[LilyasAvalon]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

...How the frick did you people start talking about Christianity in all this?

Ashley going bisexual.

...I don't recall Ashley ever specifying being a Christian, I remember her believing in God, but to believe in God is not to be Christian.

Besides, you see how lax religion is today? Now, add an extra 170 years on that. Assuming religion is even still majoritly practised, I don't think anyone will care about homosexual religious people or not, just saying.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 22 août 2011 - 11:39 .

[darkangelvxvx]

Can we get someone to close this before we get a parade out of it?