997 réponses à ce sujet

[ISpeakTheTruth]

It would be sort of strange for Garrus to be a s/s romance since there was not even a sign of it at all. Tali I could understand because she worships Shepard and I could see that happening easier.

If any former characters are going to be s/s than it should really be Tali/Kaiden or Jack/Kaiden anyone else would feel out of place.
Like Anders being gay sort of came out of left field especially when you had him talking about how he wanted to run away and be with a young woman. Same thing with Garrus talking about plowing that female Quarian then to turn around to a male Shepard and say he wants to calibrate something else just wouldn't be right.

[BigBody26]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

BigBody26 wrote...

I am strongly against s/s relationships in ME3. It has nothing to do with my personal beliefs, which are not relevant to this topic. I had no problem with s/s relationships in Dragon Age because they were a possibility from the very beginning.
Adding them into the 3rd, and final, game in the ME trilogy is astoundingly stupid in my opinion. So, the entire galaxy is in danger of being annihilated, Shep admitted to Liara he had no idea how we are going to win, Earth has fallen........and this is the time Shepard decides is best to explore his sexual curiosity? Really? Do not think I am bashing homosexuality. This has nothing to do with that. I am simply saying that the timing of including this in Mass Effect makes absolutely no sense.
The time they spent creating s/s relationships would have been better spent creating more dialogue so you can continue having conversations with crew members past the half way point of the game. Or creating situations where, say, Garrus and Tali are talking and you can approach the both of them. The time spent on s/s relationships could have been used to create more conversation option to keep us interested in the characters longer.

It would work much like the Suicide Mission romances did in ME2, I think. That wasn't exactly a prime situation for a budding romance, but they happened like a "this is our last chance, let's make the most of it" kind of thing. I can see something similar happening in ME3 because, like it or not (and I happen to like it), both hetero and homosexual romances will be present and they have to make them work somehow.

I understand they will be included.  I was simply sharing my opinion.  I rarely disagree with Biowares decisions, but this one simply has me dumbfounded. 
And your idea of "this is our last chance, let's make the most of it"  Not this Shepard!  Loyal to Ashley all the way!

[Rinji the Bearded]

sedrikhcain wrote...

You could care less about the connotation of the word? That's ridiculous. We're discussing its meaning. Even more so because what I'm arguing is much closer to the denotative meaning than what you're arguing.

You brought up wikipedia, own it.

You said that I had a knee-jerk reaction because I thought it was a negative use of the word retcon, when all I was saying that it wasn't a retcon.  There is no retconning here because there was absolutely no changing of facts when the Garrus and Tali romances were made.  Fact -- they weren't romanceable in the first game.  Fact -- They develop feelings over the course of their relationship with Shepard.  Nope.  No retconning here.  Seems completely believable, even if some of us felt it was a result of fan demand.

And I did bring up wikipedia because it had the correct definition of retcon, right there in black and white.

GOODNIGHT ALL work in the morning and all that.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 23 août 2011 - 04:14 .

[shepskisaac]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Like Anders being gay sort of came out of left field especially when you had him talking about how he wanted to run away and be with a young woman. Same thing with Garrus talking about plowing that female Quarian then to turn around to a male Shepard and say he wants to calibrate something else just wouldn't be right.

You do realize bisexual men may talk about women they like since they like both men AND women, right?

BigBody26 wrote...
Not this Shepard!  Loyal to Ashley all the way!

Then be loyal to Ashley, who exactly forces you to go for a guy or another female LI for that matter? The presence of an option doesn't change your Shep. Renegade options will still be there even if only roll Paragon Shep.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 23 août 2011 - 04:16 .

[BigBody26]

Deejtage wrote...

BigBody26 wrote...

I am strongly against s/s relationships in ME3. It has nothing to do with my personal beliefs, which are not relevant to this topic. I had no problem with s/s relationships in Dragon Age because they were a possibility from the very beginning.
Adding them into the 3rd, and final, game in the ME trilogy is astoundingly stupid in my opinion. So, the entire galaxy is in danger of being annihilated, Shep admitted to Liara he had no idea how we are going to win, Earth has fallen........and this is the time Shepard decides is best to explore his sexual curiosity? Really? Do not think I am bashing homosexuality. This has nothing to do with that. I am simply saying that the timing of including this in Mass Effect makes absolutely no sense.
The time they spent creating s/s relationships would have been better spent creating more dialogue so you can continue having conversations with crew members past the half way point of the game. Or creating situations where, say, Garrus and Tali are talking and you can approach the both of them. The time spent on s/s relationships could have been used to create more conversation option to keep us interested in the characters longer.

Firstly, same-sex relationships were going to be in Mass Effect from the beginning, but they were cut because of "time constraints" or something to that effect. As far as dialogue and getting to know your crew members better goes, they have said that not only will you have less squadmembers than you did in Mass Effect 2 (meaning they have less people to write for on the Normandy), they've also said that friendship paths and the like will be possible without having to romance the specific crewmember that you want to get to know better or whatnot. So, I don't think Garrus is going to be in the middle of calibrations anymore, truthfully. With all of that in mind, I think the dialogue and conversations between Shepard and the crew will be more deep and numerous, or whatever. Either way, it doesn't matter in the end, because same-sex romances have been confirmed regardless.

In Dragon Age it was also possible to go the friend route.  Unfortunately, just being nice to your party members led them to believe you were interested.  (I am speaking of DAO....have not yet played DA2)  Just from being nice I had Zevran hitting on me constantly.....it got annoying.  I am concerned that may happen in ME3.  Be nice to your crew members and they will mistake that for you being interested.
Again, I am not saying Bioware should remove it.  It's confirmed, it's in and that's that.  I am simply sharing my opinion that the timing of its inclusion is, for lack of a better term, stupid. 

[Deejtage]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Deejtage wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

In the end it doesn't matter what the gays or bisexuals think. They are not running the game. In the end EA runs Bioware, and Bioware runs Mass Effect. EA is going to ask Bioware to cater to the majority... which are 18-25 year old heterosexual males/females.

Threads like these are wishful thinking at best.

Well, same-sex relationships are already confirmed for ME 3. As for Garrus and Tali, personally, I don't want either of them for s/s relationships. But that's just myself, my own tastes. The alien relationships are not my cup of tea.

Okay, so it's not your cup of tea.  BUT!

Would it diminish or somehow lessen your enjoyment of the game if Garrus/Tali were s/s relationship material?

I think not.  Since you won't be pushing for them in the first place.


This is the argument that never makes any sense.  People say "I don't want this, it's not my thing." ...But if it's something that you never cared about before and STILL don't care about, does it matter that it exists?

If Garrus/Tali were s/s relationship material or if they ended up being the options in ME 3? On both cases, no, it wouldn't lessen my enjoyment honestly. I would be rather disappointed, but I expect to be Mass Effect 3 to be an amazing game regardless of whether or not same-sex romances are confirmed or not.

That being said, it does matter that it still exists, to me. I support the integration of ANY same-sex relationship, whether I would find myself to enjoy that particular one or not, because being gay myself I am very much interested in equality and inclusiveness. Obviously, adding in s/s romances is an inclusive action. If Garrus and Tali ended up becoming the s/s romances, I would still throw my support in for them despite the fact that they are not my cup of tea. In the end, I might even try them out for curiosity's sake. Also, I know a lot of other people are vying for Garrus and Tali to become the same-sex relationships in the game, and I would support them in that aspect. I hope I got the meaning of your post.

[Deejtage]

BigBody26 wrote...

Deejtage wrote...

BigBody26 wrote...

I am strongly against s/s relationships in ME3. It has nothing to do with my personal beliefs, which are not relevant to this topic. I had no problem with s/s relationships in Dragon Age because they were a possibility from the very beginning.
Adding them into the 3rd, and final, game in the ME trilogy is astoundingly stupid in my opinion. So, the entire galaxy is in danger of being annihilated, Shep admitted to Liara he had no idea how we are going to win, Earth has fallen........and this is the time Shepard decides is best to explore his sexual curiosity? Really? Do not think I am bashing homosexuality. This has nothing to do with that. I am simply saying that the timing of including this in Mass Effect makes absolutely no sense.
The time they spent creating s/s relationships would have been better spent creating more dialogue so you can continue having conversations with crew members past the half way point of the game. Or creating situations where, say, Garrus and Tali are talking and you can approach the both of them. The time spent on s/s relationships could have been used to create more conversation option to keep us interested in the characters longer.

Firstly, same-sex relationships were going to be in Mass Effect from the beginning, but they were cut because of "time constraints" or something to that effect. As far as dialogue and getting to know your crew members better goes, they have said that not only will you have less squadmembers than you did in Mass Effect 2 (meaning they have less people to write for on the Normandy), they've also said that friendship paths and the like will be possible without having to romance the specific crewmember that you want to get to know better or whatnot. So, I don't think Garrus is going to be in the middle of calibrations anymore, truthfully. With all of that in mind, I think the dialogue and conversations between Shepard and the crew will be more deep and numerous, or whatever. Either way, it doesn't matter in the end, because same-sex romances have been confirmed regardless.

In Dragon Age it was also possible to go the friend route.  Unfortunately, just being nice to your party members led them to believe you were interested.  (I am speaking of DAO....have not yet played DA2)  Just from being nice I had Zevran hitting on me constantly.....it got annoying.  I am concerned that may happen in ME3.  Be nice to your crew members and they will mistake that for you being interested.
Again, I am not saying Bioware should remove it.  It's confirmed, it's in and that's that.  I am simply sharing my opinion that the timing of its inclusion is, for lack of a better term, stupid. 

From my understanding, the teams at Bioware are looking to not let this happen again. Atleast, that's what I've heard from lurking around here and such. I know they said that the squadmembers are going to be "reactive" to your Shepard, and that would indicate that unless you hit on them, rather than just being nice, then they would react accordingly. I'm hoping that's the way it goes, just as much as you are I'm sure. And honestly, I agree that it is rather "stupid" to include them in the end, in the last game of the trilogy. But obviously I am biased, in favor of it, and thinking "better late than never"!

[RenegadeXV]

Does anyone know the full list of characters that S/S dialogue was recorded for, but never actually used?

Off the top of my head, I can think of:

- Miranda
- Thane
- Tali
- Kaidan
- Ashley

I think they may be the S/S romances in ME3, possibly along with Jack and Vega.

[RiouHotaru]

Deejtage wrote...
If Garrus/Tali were s/s relationship material or if they ended up being the options in ME 3? On both cases, no, it wouldn't lessen my enjoyment honestly. I would be rather disappointed, but I expect to be Mass Effect 3 to be an amazing game regardless of whether or not same-sex romances are confirmed or not.

That being said, it does matter that it still exists, to me. I support the integration of ANY same-sex relationship, whether I would find myself to enjoy that particular one or not, because being gay myself I am very much interested in equality and inclusiveness. Obviously, adding in s/s romances is an inclusive action. If Garrus and Tali ended up becoming the s/s romances, I would still throw my support in for them despite the fact that they are not my cup of tea. In the end, I might even try them out for curiosity's sake. Also, I know a lot of other people are vying for Garrus and Tali to become the same-sex relationships in the game, and I would support them in that aspect. I hope I got the meaning of your post.

Yeah.  I guess the problem is, it doesn't matter WHO you choose, there will be people who won't be happy.  I mean, heck, there are folks lusting after LEGION of all people.  It's one of those situations where you'll never please everyone.  Hell, even if EVERYONE was an option for both genders people would complain (and rightly so, but I'm just giving hypotheticals)

It's a no-win situation for Bioware.  But, at the same time, I'm glad they're doing it.

Besides, as a gay male gamer who happens to be a Garrus fan (You have NO idea how ecstatic I was to find out Garrus was an option even for a FemShep), if I can't have Garrus as an s/s option?

There's always fanfiction and fanart 

[Erode_The_Soul]

BigBody26 wrote...


I understand they will be included.  I was simply sharing my opinion.  I rarely disagree with Biowares decisions, but this one simply has me dumbfounded. 
And your idea of "this is our last chance, let's make the most of it"  Not this Shepard!  Loyal to Ashley all the way!

Oh, I understand that completely. Personally, my Femshep has had a crush on Joker and has, as a result, remained celibate (and bitter <_<) thus far. I was just speaking specifically to instances of new romances, regardless of which side of the fence they fall.

[Deejtage]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Deejtage wrote...
If Garrus/Tali were s/s relationship material or if they ended up being the options in ME 3? On both cases, no, it wouldn't lessen my enjoyment honestly. I would be rather disappointed, but I expect to be Mass Effect 3 to be an amazing game regardless of whether or not same-sex romances are confirmed or not.

That being said, it does matter that it still exists, to me. I support the integration of ANY same-sex relationship, whether I would find myself to enjoy that particular one or not, because being gay myself I am very much interested in equality and inclusiveness. Obviously, adding in s/s romances is an inclusive action. If Garrus and Tali ended up becoming the s/s romances, I would still throw my support in for them despite the fact that they are not my cup of tea. In the end, I might even try them out for curiosity's sake. Also, I know a lot of other people are vying for Garrus and Tali to become the same-sex relationships in the game, and I would support them in that aspect. I hope I got the meaning of your post.

Yeah.  I guess the problem is, it doesn't matter WHO you choose, there will be people who won't be happy.  I mean, heck, there are folks lusting after LEGION of all people.  It's one of those situations where you'll never please everyone.  Hell, even if EVERYONE was an option for both genders people would complain (and rightly so, but I'm just giving hypotheticals)

It's a no-win situation for Bioware.  But, at the same time, I'm glad they're doing it.

Besides, as a gay male gamer who happens to be a Garrus fan (You have NO idea how ecstatic I was to find out Garrus was an option even for a FemShep), if I can't have Garrus as an s/s option?

There's always fanfiction and fanart 

Yeah, someone will always be upset, no matter what Bioware does sadly. And hearing that there are people (assuming they are genuine in their lusting, and not just joking) going after Legion is rather disturbing, in my opinion. But, I am pretty much in full support of them anyway, it's not like they're hurting anyone haha. As for "all-bisexual squadmates", I don't really like it either. That might possibily be because of the execution of it Dragon Age 2, though. But that's atleast something I can agree on with the anti-s/s crowd. And yes, there will always be fanfiction and fanart for the excluded I guess there is some good stuff out there, I know there is for Kaidan, though I haven't gone searching for Garrus/MShep stuff honestly lol.

Modifié par Deejtage, 23 août 2011 - 04:36 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

So why aren't brandnew characters good enough for the s/s option?

Other then this nonsense some pro s/s say they want their trilogy romance well outside of a modded game you don't have a trilogy romance with anyone ( except Liara) and if so and so still isn't made into a s/s option for 3 and you have a PC guess what you just mod it again.

Other pro supporters feel BW owes it to them what? BW owes you nothing unless you're a shareholder.

Then the last group that seems common are the ones who keep pining over so and so because in their minds their wanted character has yet to confess their true love for s/s shep sorry was never in the actual game scenarios in your head doesn't equal BW has to go that route.

Some of the most ridiculous scenarios I've heard yet for anyone could be made bi is the fact that they have yet to say they're hetro and not into s/s shep so by that logic every hetro who doesn't utter I"m straight man to anyone they've ever met is a bi option waiting to happen.....

Some of our characters have already stated their preferences loud and clear yet that doesn't stop people from wanting them retconed for instance Jack says to fshep she hated being with that girl and doesn't want to be with any future girls, Samara says she won't give into shep, Mordin says he's not interested yet all these characters some one at some point has said they should be sheps LI.....amazing how even statements seem to be hand waived by those wanting select characters enough.

Brand new characters are sooo much easier for the s/s option no wars, no continuity issues, no retcon issues yet for some reason they aren't supported how odd.

But one big thing to note everyone BW specifically said back in ME mshep was straight he got retconned for 3 and the shocker? No one cares! Shep is a blank slate. Unlike our squad members who have distinct personalities, traits, habits, and preferences already put into them.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 23 août 2011 - 04:36 .

[darkangelvxvx]

 <.<

>.>

I'll just leave this here:












http://www.vgcats.co...s/?strip_id=221

[sedrikhcain]

RinjiRenee wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

You could care less about the connotation of the word? That's ridiculous. We're discussing its meaning. Even more so because what I'm arguing is much closer to the denotative meaning than what you're arguing.

You brought up wikipedia, own it.

You said that I had a knee-jerk reaction because I thought it was a negative use of the word retcon, when all I was saying that it wasn't a retcon.  There is no retconning here because there was absolutely no changing of facts when the Garrus and Tali romances were made.  Fact -- they weren't romanceable in the first game.  Fact -- They develop feelings over the course of their relationship with Shepard.  Nope.  No retconning here.  Seems completely believable, even if some of us felt it was a result of fan demand.

And I did bring up wikipedia because it had the correct definition of retcon, right there in black and white.

GOODNIGHT ALL work in the morning and all that.

a definition you clearly didn't understand. I'd love to know how you explain away Garrus's "reach, flexibility" conversation.

Reality is reality.

[shepskisaac]

And Destroy Raiden is still a hypocrite. Why do you even bother? Everyone knows you're a Talimancer and no will will treat seriously an anti s/s Talimancer. Simple.

[Deejtage]

lightsnow13 wrote...

darkangelvxvx wrote...

 <.<

>.>

I'll just leave this here:












http://www.vgcats.co...s/?strip_id=221

<3 youuuuuuu.

<3double love<3

[darkangelvxvx]

My last point at this is from a monetary stand point... and then I'm done



Is there a chance we can just get the story points fleshed out without adding more to their already full plate? Aside from the fact that it's wanted by some and not wanted by others, a continuous argument wont get anywhere but deeper into an argument.

Maybe Bioware will do it, maybe they wont, personally (aside from the disgusting points I made earlier) I would rather see a fully realized relationship, than one cut, fudged, then forced into place to apease the other side. If they do it, fine, I would prefer they didn't out of fear it will constrict on their time, animation budgets, voice actors and so on...

Would it really be worth while at this point to get Garrus/tali romance? I mean... there's no back story in the previous games about it.

Would it be a betrayal to the characters? Garrus, yea it would, Tali... yes and no, but no one remembers things in the nature of strict family rules. Her family is important yada yada yada which was important... This would be like Morrigan from DA:O being gay as well. She would have a huge warp in her persona if she had to betray her beliefs and sleep with a man to father a child, which was a big plot point.


Felt a disturbance coming so I decided to head it off with this:
"But Morrigan and Tali aren't anything alike!"

Aside from one being a total **** and one being the "russian transfer student" Tali and Morrigan are both driven and directed by their parents.


People want to ignore the story and get it worked in that theirs is better.

Stop complaining

Modifié par darkangelvxvx, 23 août 2011 - 05:06 .

[littlezack]

And now I can never play Star Fox 64 again. Thanks.

[darkangelvxvx]

[Sherbet Lemon]

The problem with the "pre-established" sexuality argument is that they are made in away that discounts the nature of usability and game design.  Same-sex romance was not in the game in ME2, aside from one relationship with a non-squad member.  I repeat, same-sex romance was not a feature in ME2 because it was NOT DESIGNED to be a feature.  A character could be gay or lesbian or bi but the player character would not be allowed to enact because it was NOT designed to be enacted.  

The text (Mass Effect) can not be discussed in a vacuum.  In the case of video games, the text is not the text itself alone.  The text has to be considered in concert with what the games requires or allows you to do.  It differs from a book where an author unleashes a product and the product takes on a life of their own.  Games like Mass Effect and Dragon are in essence a form of interactive storytelling, but they are also reliant upon the aims of the game's design.  Sure you can discuss which character might be more or less likely to be bi/gay/lesbian, based upon ambient dialogue but there is no clear line because there was never a line to begin with. 

And then there's the obvious...why does it matter what someone else does in THEIR game?  Only one obvious answer...

EDIT: Grammar..

Modifié par Village Idiot, 23 août 2011 - 05:29 .

[darkangelvxvx]

It doesnt matter, but out of fear that it will hollow my own game due to heavy time constraints budget voice actors memory storage devices and other game related instabilites I would prefer they kept it the way it was and not fold under the thumb of non supporting consumers.

Dont assume I hate gay people

Modifié par darkangelvxvx, 23 août 2011 - 05:22 .

[Sherbet Lemon]

darkangelvxvx wrote...

It doesnt matter, but out of fear that it will hollow my own game due to heavy time constraints budget voice actors memory storage devices and other game related instabilites I would prefer they kept it the way it was and not fold under the thumb of non supporting consumers.

Dont assume I hate gay people

I don't assume anything and I didn't say that anyone hated anyone. 

I'm trying to understand?  What would make it hollow?  The dialogue for Male/Female Shepards are similar as is now with only few minor differences.  How would adding more content for more users make your experience hollow?

[darkangelvxvx]

you insinuated at it.

It would become hollow if they had to compress dialogue sequences game play actions, story concepts and player actions by adding additional actions for the other. Voice actors may not want to, payments may be required which wont be in their budget, additional scenes would need to be edited for taller/shorter character conformity, Extra "clean-up" bumpmapping and clean up protocols would need to be filtered and adjusted.

If its planned and they scheduled to fit it in great! If they're fudging it for appeasement of the crowd, then no not, and will ruin certain game play concepts. if it's forced into place and last minute it is not okay, and game devs are famous for last minute changes, just look at Lionhead's long history of disappointments that were shafted, at last minute.


Heavy weapons, lack of weapon choices, armor lack, Non-DLC vehicle segments, Non-adjustable companion armors, RPG scaling elements are just a few of the for examples, that cut away from it's experience.

Modifié par darkangelvxvx, 23 août 2011 - 05:41 .