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Tali/Garrus = Character Development... But S/S = Character Betrayal?


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#51
Jessihatt

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IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

All the more reason for the Garrus romance to never have happened.

I don't get the connection of "I respect you Shepard.. so let's bang.. even though I find all you humans kinda gross"


Haha, I know. But people can fall in love with the ugliest people ever.
But I don't think interspecies relationships make sense anywho. Just because they're as intelligent as humans and have building and hovercars and that.
If monkeys suddenly did, I don't think that would be a justifiable relationship..

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

I don't think it's fair to use that logic for both a Male and Female relationship.

The fact that Shepard is female during that romance may have played a big part. As far as we know, Garrus is attracted to females. That may have helped his decision as far as the FemShep romance goes.  


I know, it was just what made sense for making Garrus a s/s option if they did. :wizard:

Modifié par CommanderJessica, 22 août 2011 - 03:16 .


#52
Sundance31us

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CommanderJessica wrote...
Haha, I know. But people can fall in love with the ugliest people ever.
But I don't think interspecies relationships make sense anywho. Just because they're as intelligent as humans and have building and hovercars and that.
If monkeys suddenly did, I don't think that would be a justifiable relationship..

Indeed, dogs try to open interspecies relationships all the time (think: dog humping someone's leg), but it usually doesn't work out. :blink::?:pinched:

#53
littlezack

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IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

CommanderJessica wrote...

GodWood wrote...

--> S/S Romance thread


It'd get lost in the shuffle.

I think Garrus and Tali make sense for s/s.
As you said, no love for Shep in ME1, and Garrus says he doesn't find humans attractive.
So he doesn't like Shepard for her looks, but for her brains and what she stands for. Ergo, gender shouldn't be an issue, at least for Garrus.
Tali said something about opening up her suit to my femshep.. which sounded mildly flirtatious, so I don't think it'd be that much of a stretch for Tali either. Not that I care if she is, I wouldn't romance her anyway. I don't understand the unconditional love lots of ME fans have for her. I don't hate her but she's not my favourite character by any means.


All the more reason for the Garrus romance to never have happened.

I don't get the connection of "I respect you Shepard.. so let's bang.. even though I find all you humans kinda gross"


I don't recall him saying that he found humans  'gross', just that he never considered the possibilitiy before.


It'd be like if I had a friend - a girl - who one day brought up the idea of being more than friends. Some guys wouldn't be down for it, some guys would. Garrus falls into the latter category.

Modifié par littlezack, 22 août 2011 - 03:33 .


#54
Guest_Luc0s_*

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Garrus/Tali romance in ME2 was pure fan-service.

Garrus/Tali s/s romance in ME3 will be the pinnacle of fan-service.


I think Garrus and Tali are both victims of their fanbase and BioWare's willingness to deliver fan-service.

Modifié par Luc0s, 22 août 2011 - 03:35 .


#55
Meshaber

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*ahem*

All homosexuals do not instantly fall in love with everyone of the opposite sex. It is possible to develop such feelings later on. You do not necessarily *change* the sexual orientation of anyone just because they **** around with people of their own gender two years later.

#56
littlezack

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At the core, videogame romances are always fanservice.

#57
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COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

I'd prefer is the S/S reomances stayed with:

Ashley
Kaidan
Jack
Liara
Vega

One thing I don't want is the majority of characters turning gay.

Simple, don't flirt with the characters you have a problem with. Problem solved.

#58
LilyasAvalon

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Both Tali and Garrus were both 'baby' characters in ME1, they were young, maybe a bit naive, trying to find their place in the world, unable to see Shep, etc.

ME2, they've both seen some serious, s*** by now, both stronger, older, more mature people, with a more focused view, a more focused view of Shepard.

... Also, I'm in favour OF S/S romances. I swear to the Maker, up and down, I thought Kaidan WAS a bisexual option in ME1. You can imagine the look on my Sheploo's face when I found out he wasn't...

#59
Reptillius

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

... Also, I'm in favour OF S/S romances. I swear to the Maker, up and down, I thought Kaidan WAS a bisexual option in ME1. You can imagine the look on my Sheploo's face when I found out he wasn't...


This was my thought somewhat on both kaidan and ashley... They both go through certain dialogues if you choose them whether male or female... and then it's like the subtle little flirting with either one just stops after a certain point if you aren't a particular sex and you hit that far in their conversations.  it's like you get just so far and sudeenly somebody made the "let's just be friends" dialogue option for you.

#60
RenegadeXV

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jreezy wrote...

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

I'd prefer is the S/S reomances stayed with:

Ashley
Kaidan
Jack
Liara
Vega

One thing I don't want is the majority of characters turning gay.

Simple, don't flirt with the characters you have a problem with. Problem solved.


I don't recall flirting with Ashley or Jack, and yet they still developed quite far down the romance path

It's not "problem solved." Changing estalbished characters for the sake of fan service, is in my opinion, wrong.

Modifié par COGNiTiON 1, 22 août 2011 - 03:59 .


#61
BubbleSauce

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COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

I'd prefer is the S/S reomances stayed with:

Ashley
Kaidan
Jack
Liara
Vega

One thing I don't want is the majority of characters turning gay.

Simple, don't flirt with the characters you have a problem with. Problem solved.


I don't recall flirting with Ashley or Jack, and yet they still developed quite far down the romance path

It's not "problem solved." Changing estalbished characters for the sake of fan service, is in my opinion, wrong.


Yes but only with characters you like, you don't seem to mind in Jack suddenly became bi, or kaiden, or ashley for that matter. God forbid a character you cared about became bi.

#62
Destroy Raiden_

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GreenSoda wrote...

Thing is Tali/Garrus were a blank state when it came to their sexuality in ME1. That gap got filled in ME2 when it was established that they actually *are* attracted to Shephard. And they even made a destinction between gender (they would flirt with the opposite gendered Shep but not with their same-gender counterpart).

...thus introducing any of the already established LI's as s/s romance in ME3 would be kind of a retcon (aside from Liara) as their sexuality has actually already been established.


Exactly the social cues have been made Garrus prefers fshep and Tali likes mshep she not only tells kelly this with mshep she also only tells him of the romance side of things if it is a m/f suit link. Rann shows the societal aspect of s/s suit links via her telling shep, Tali, and second squadmember of the 2 times she linked suits once before Tali was conceived she linked suits to show her bff status with her mom. She linked up again when Tali was born yet again to show trust. So when Tali says to fshep I would trust you enough to link suits it is only friendship she wants. End game results portray both these characters as hetro suddenly having them go round 2 with s/s shep saying, " Oh I was hiding it all along I love you!" is a retcon they were established in 2 as hetro.

Only brandnew characters like vega and if they start the flings up for 3 should they be s/s options. All past LIs should stay as portrayed hetro or not interested in the cases of Mordin and Samara.

You already have established in game that Kelly and Liara are s/s options. Kelly may be expanded into a real LI for 3.

I still don't get why the s/s crowd feel that brandnew characters for s/s is no good or not good enough and need to have BW for many reasons open up established characters into that field. They're making a deep friendship path so why can't s/s pros just have deep friendships with past LIs and start brandnew relationships with new characters? 
 

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 22 août 2011 - 04:06 .


#63
LilyasAvalon

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Reptillius wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

... Also, I'm in favour OF S/S romances. I swear to the Maker, up and down, I thought Kaidan WAS a bisexual option in ME1. You can imagine the look on my Sheploo's face when I found out he wasn't...


This was my thought somewhat on both kaidan and ashley... They both go through certain dialogues if you choose them whether male or female... and then it's like the subtle little flirting with either one just stops after a certain point if you aren't a particular sex and you hit that far in their conversations.  it's like you get just so far and sudeenly somebody made the "let's just be friends" dialogue option for you.

HE LED ME ON, DAMNIT! :crying:

#64
littlezack

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BubbleSauce wrote...

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

I'd prefer is the S/S reomances stayed with:

Ashley
Kaidan
Jack
Liara
Vega

One thing I don't want is the majority of characters turning gay.

Simple, don't flirt with the characters you have a problem with. Problem solved.


I don't recall flirting with Ashley or Jack, and yet they still developed quite far down the romance path

It's not "problem solved." Changing estalbished characters for the sake of fan service, is in my opinion, wrong.


Yes but only with characters you like, you don't seem to mind in Jack suddenly became bi, or kaiden, or ashley for that matter. God forbid a character you cared about became bi.


I'm actually quite certain Jack IS bi, she just isn't up for a relationship with Femshep at the time.

#65
Sundance31us

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I can only assume that the bulk of BSN members haven't experienced a friend or family member coming out of the closet. Speaking from experience (both friend and family) it's not always clear beforehand. :huh:

#66
RenegadeXV

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BubbleSauce wrote...
Yes but only with characters you like, you don't seem to mind in Jack suddenly became bi, or kaiden, or ashley for that matter. God forbid a character you cared about became bi.


Please don't make ridiculous assumptions. I like every cahracter I listed. The only character I don't like is Tali.

Jack already appears to be Bi, and Ashley and Kaidan were already planned to be Bi roamnces.

Sundance31us wrote...

I can only assume that the bulk of
BSN members haven't experienced a friend or family member coming out of
the closet. Speaking from experience (both friend and family) it's not
always clear beforehand. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]


I've had an uncle and cousin admit to being gay.

Modifié par COGNiTiON 1, 22 août 2011 - 04:17 .


#67
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COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

I'd prefer is the S/S reomances stayed with:

Ashley
Kaidan
Jack
Liara
Vega

One thing I don't want is the majority of characters turning gay.

Simple, don't flirt with the characters you have a problem with. Problem solved.


I don't recall flirting with Ashley or Jack, and yet they still developed quite far down the romance path

It's not "problem solved." Changing estalbished characters for the sake of fan service, is in my opinion, wrong.

It's very difficult to know for certain the sexual orientation of Mass Effect characters anyway since no one has ever stated "I'm not gay or Bi". 

#68
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This is honestly pretty stupid. You can't just accept the characters for how the professional writers intended them to be? Does making Garrus and Tali change sexual orientation for the finale of the series really count as a "win" for anybody but a very vocal sub-group on a forum most fans of the games will probably never see? It's also insulting to the writers who took a lot of time developing these guys only to cave in to the weird slash fiction demands of a few fans.

#69
RenegadeXV

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jreezy wrote...
It's very difficult to know for certain the sexual orientation of Mass Effect characters anyway since no one has ever stated "I'm not gay or Bi".


Oh, I know that. But to quote Mordin, "can make resonable guess."

Garrus has never shown any atraction towards Males. I can honestly see Tali becoming a S/S romance, since she appears to be attracted to Shepard no matter the gender.

Thane for example, I would say is straight. Characters such as Joker etc, are "up in the air."

#70
shepskisaac

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

... Also, I'm in favour OF S/S
romances. I swear to the Maker, up and down, I thought Kaidan WAS a
bisexual option in ME1. You can imagine the look on my Sheploo's face
when I found out he wasn't...

Could it be because of scenes like this?
Image IPB
"Gosh it's so hot in here...!" :whistle:


Destroy Raiden wrote...
" Oh I was hiding it all along I love you!" is a retcon

Ladies & gentlemen, here you have a prime example of a hypocrite Talimancer. So ridiculous it's just sad.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 août 2011 - 04:25 .


#71
CMDR Locke

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Arkitekt wrote...

Shepard is not "canon" anything. He's not even canonicly male or female! He even has three possible backstories!

This is a role playing game, not a movie. Get a grip.


That's incorrect.  Shepard has some canon features.

Male, Soldier, Earthborn, Sole Survivor.

Hate to break it to you.

#72
Guest_The Big Bad Wolf_*

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Any character becoming bi is not a retcon. Neither are the Tali and Garrus romances.

#73
LilyasAvalon

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Sometimes, interest in a person just takes a while to develop anyway, so Kaidan or Ash being an S/S LI is possible.

It's not a case of 'I was hiding my gay', it's more a case of 'I wasn't sure how I felt at that time... and then you... you know died'.

#74
Guest_The Big Bad Wolf_*

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CMDR Locke wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Shepard is not "canon" anything. He's not even canonicly male or female! He even has three possible backstories!

This is a role playing game, not a movie. Get a grip.


That's incorrect.  Shepard has some canon features.

Male, Soldier, Earthborn, Sole Survivor.

Hate to break it to you.


Proof?

#75
LilyasAvalon

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IsaacShep wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

... Also, I'm in favour OF S/S
romances. I swear to the Maker, up and down, I thought Kaidan WAS a
bisexual option in ME1. You can imagine the look on my Sheploo's face
when I found out he wasn't...

Could it be because of scenes like this?
Image IPB
"Gosh it's so hot in here...!" :whistle:

. . . Issac, do you ENJOY torturing me? :crying: