17 réponses à ce sujet

[Dorateen]

I noticed a new module on the Vault, which was uploaded earlier this month

Another Fine Quest by HalTAR

http://nwvault.ign.c...h.Detail&id=489

This is an adventure designed for a single character of good alignment, starting at level 9. Because of the many undead involved, a Paladin or Cleric make good choices.

I was going to take a 9th level dwarven fighter, but then I decided to convert the module into a campaign and use Kaldor Silverwand's Deck of Trumps to create a small party. I went with 7th level characters (to adjust for difficulty) bringing along the Paladin and Cleric.

I played long enough to poke around and get through the first combat area. I figured this was the kind of short and sweet adventure that would work well with the trio of companions. The module does have an unconventional henchman who joined the party, and that certainly made things interesting.

The author states that one of the purposes of this module was to learn the NWN2 toolset. This was a module building learning experience. As such, there is a certain less-than-polished feel to the design, but nothing offensive that would prevent playing. Some things I could relate to right away, from when I first started building, such as interior areas that are bigger than they need to be, and places that might seem too sparse. Again, personally, this is not a big issue for me and I see a lot of potential for improvement.

Once the story gets going, the set-up is intriguing enough. At this point, it then becomes mostly an exercise in bashing undead, but for a good cause. Indeed, Paladins and Clerics should feel right at home.

It's refreshing to see new modules like this one out on the Vault. Not everything has to be an awesome epic or professional-grade production. The NWN2 toolset is not so overwhelming that folks can't turn out simple, decent Dungeons & Dragons adventures. I'm hoping we will see a lot more.

Besides, I also like the title of this module. It reminds me of Stan and Ollie... "Another fine mess, you've gotten us into!"

Harumph!

Modifié par Dorateen, 22 août 2011 - 01:55 .

[The Fred]

For all our dreams and delusions of grandeur, I think there's something to be said for short but interesting modules. I for one am willing to let little things slide, and anyway smaller modules are likely to be better polished. I'll admit though that this is somewhat hypocritical coming from the person who can't help but rebuild almost every element of the NWN2 system just so my campaign (which is barely even started) play right.

[Dorateen]

Heh, not that there's anything wrong with a grand design, the Fred. It certainly is amazing to see what skilled people can do to push the NWN2 engine.

There is a high standard of expectation, I feel, but ought to be room for a hobbyist who just wants to build with stock content. As long as an adventure is well structured, it can still be enjoyable.

I also fogot to mention, the author included voice-overs as part of this module. Again, it's not something that ranks highly on the list of features for me, but it's a nice added touch. I can appreciate the effort that goes into doing VO and making them a part of the playing experience.

[rjshae]

Yup, nothing wrong with a good old hack-n-slay type adventure, particularly if it is well-balanced and tactically challenging.

Modifié par rjshae, 22 août 2011 - 04:59 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

3 level 7s = 1 level 9 in difficulty ? Thats some liquid math.

I can't say I agree that not everything has to be non epic. The download counts compared with the dev time of the campaigns would tend to back me up.

I do think however, that chapterizing is a good idea. Therefore you could have a well polished, in depth game but produce it in manageable doses. Yet when put together it is an epic in the end.

[Dann-J]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

I can't say I agree that not everything has to be non epic.

I'm still trying to figure out what that triple-negative sentence actually means.

[PJ156]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

I do think however, that chapterizing is a good idea. Therefore you could have a well polished, in depth game but produce it in manageable doses. Yet when put together it is an epic in the end.

I agree that works on a number of levels for me but if the mods are good it does flood the top 15 spots. I am lucky enough to have two mods up there and 16 cygni has three. Five spots for only two series its a shame for the high 8's that could be there getting the exposure and more downloads.

I also agree with the general point that there is, and has to be room for all modules and we should support them by playing them and voting. These are what keep things moving while the multi year projects lumber into view.

Download rates are very poor generaly at te moment. I test 23 modules a week to look at download counts, the average for the last two weeks has been 16/17 per module some not even getting double figures. The best is has been this year is around 27. It's pretty dire especially for modules which score less than 9 and don't have ten votes, they go into limbo for a long time.

So I think all modders making an effort should be supported where we can and the best way to do that is to download and play.

Easy to say I know ...

PJ

[M. Rieder]

DannJ wrote...

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

I can't say I agree that not everything has to be non epic.

I'm still trying to figure out what that triple-negative sentence actually means.

I'm not trying to keep from misunderstanding it.

[Dorateen]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

3 level 7s = 1 level 9 in difficulty ? Thats some liquid math.

If it was a question of simple mathematics, then dividing level 9 by 3, I should bring three 3rd level characters into this module.

And they would prompty be slaughtered by the high-level skeleton warriors, mummy lords and blade spiders encountered just in the first combat area.

In addtion, this is a low-magic setting, with little loot. I've got a +1 mace between us, and no magic armor. The only thing we've really got is the cleric's spells, the paladin's faith, and dwarven grit and determination. I'd say going with 7th level characters has worked out just fine.

Harumph!

[Eguintir Eligard]

I spoke in error obviously. I meant that I can NOT say that I can't agree that not everything has to be non epic.

But PJ has opened my eyeballs to the fact that if your series is popular but you break it up you could end up being a dingus to your fellow modders as you would hog the top 15 as is the case. I think 16 cygni is a little extreme though because it was already done and they translated and mass produced them out in chunks. An actual development of a new campaign chapter, followed by the delay as the next chapter develops should even it out. But I could be wrong so...

...I have come to a solution: Submit only epic and ONLY rad/awesome cool campaigns, minimum 25 hours playtime with branching content and do them in less than 30 days dev time so you don't get burned out.

That works all around right? No churn outs, and no burn outs.

PS don't get too excited that the download counts are down in the month of august. Those of us who don't live south of ohio need to get outside and enjoy the weather.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 23 août 2011 - 09:57 .

[Claudius33]

Hello,

I am the author of 16 Cygni. I'm not familiar with this forum.

I just want you to know that I did all 3 parts of the campaign alone. A very few people did some beta testing and one gave some suggestions. They are all credited.

The was no mass translation nor mass production in chunks. The mod was bilingual since very the beginning. I translated piece by piece while doing. Actually the player chooses at the very beginning and thus set a global variable. Then all convo main nodes are duplicated and selected according to the global variable. Journal entries and objects descriptions are always given in both languages, French and English.
16 Cygni 1 was relased end '09 as an int'l bilingual module. A few months after some players suggested me to submit it as an English module to give to it more exposure to the English speaking players. I was a bit reluctant since my translation was obviously not perfect. I asked the Vault's admin about it. Beyondthepale kindly encouraged me. So I opened in April '09 an entry in the English section. The entry is in fact a dummy which directs to the int'l section.

Then 16 Cygni 2 was released on Sept 2010 and 16 Cygni 3 on May 2011. Both with two entries, one in the int'l section, one in the English section.

Although I can't say that I am unhappy to take 3 slots (hell all parts made it despite the 'acceptable' translation), I am sorry if it could kill the exposure of other good mods, but there was no machievelic marketing intention behind.

Anyway I'm totally aware of the modules exposure problem. Believe me, I experienced it in the int'l section. Besides the numbers of votes I get are roughly speaking splitted by two.

Here are some possible suggestions we may submit as authors to the Vault admins :

- Increase the number of slots in the Top NWN2 modules list (15 -> 20 or 25)
- Have a link to a special page "hot modules", let say with a current rating of 8 and above.
- Add a rating column in the New Modules and New Int'l Modules lists.

Kind regards.

Modifié par Claudius33, 24 août 2011 - 07:27 .

[PJ156]

Hello Claudius,

Welcome to the forum

I like the first idea. I wonder if that might be possible? Movement in the top 15 is slow, even with the new rules on download numbers. there are a lot of high 8's that would benifit from the exposure those extra slots would give.

PJ

[Eguintir Eligard]

Claudius all I am saying is because they were already made your chapters came out much faster. It's not something that would happen if people did what I suggsted because there would be much more time between chapters. Your game was already made.

[Claudius33]

Thanks PJ. I think it's feasible. Of course it is not just a matter of putting new links. I think the main page is automatically computed, so its logic must be modified.

You are not right Eguintir. Part II was developed after the release of Part I and Part III after the release of Part II. Of course the main events of the whole campaign were planned ahead. And yes some blueprints and NPCs were already available from Part I. But no more. Part II uses mainly a different setting. Very few areas have been transferred. Less than 5 from Part I to Part IIII. Each part took me about 7 to 8 months.

Part I was started on end May '09 and released end December '09. (I took a few months break after the release of my previous campaign , IIRC A Slave Destiny II was realeased on Dec '08).

I don't know how the Vault could deal with the files, votes/comments and all that stuff, but personally I wouldn't object to regroup all pages in one for the whole 16 Cygni campaign.

Modifié par Claudius33, 24 août 2011 - 09:53 .

[The Fred]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...
I meant that I can NOT say that I can't agree that not everything has to be non epic.

Ah, I see. I have to admit, I can't deny that I didn't agree with not agreeing that not everything has to be non-epic, because even if it weren't true that there isn't a complete lack of things which aren't non-epic, it wouldn't be sound logic to point out that that doesn't mean that things which aren't non-epic couldn't or shouldn't exist.

[kamal_]

I ran into a game breaker with this. The Caretaker was supposed to teleport me back home to continue my pursuit, I got the visual effect, but no teleport.

[mungbean]

Thanks Fred, my left eye just rolled back into my skull.

[kamal_]

Reloaded and finished. The author touched all the main things one might want to learn how to do, which was his point in making the module. Cut and paste from my vault comments.

The author has stated
that one purpose of this adventure was to learn the toolset. That is a
success. I saw examples of most things a builder would want to do in
constructing an adventure, and also did several things most modules do
not (lip synch, voiceover). It also gave the old school 80's flavor the
author was trying for. The most similar established module maker I can
think of is Dorateen.



Good:

Author achieved what she/he wanted in learning the toolset.

I encountered no serious bugs other than one I probably inflicted on myself.

Cutscenes were effective and the cameras well placed for them (I
prefer the black bar cutscreens to full screen, but that's personal
preference.)



As far as improvements:

Interior areas are too spread out. Such giant rooms and long
corridors are not needed. It was most noticable in the painting quest
which required running a significant distance back through cleared
dungeon. A mapnote indicating the location of the paintings once the
quest was accepted would have also been useful.

Interiors would benefit from changing the lighting. I think the
author used the default well lit lighting throughout, so if they
continue with NWN2 I would suggest this as a new thing to learn.

Some more polish would be nice. There are a good number of usable but
empty chests (which I believe caused my one bug). Many doors are named
"illefarn door" or "door". Area designs are sparse, though given the
unusual nature of the two main dungeons this could be intentional.

Combat in the first dungeon was unbalanced. The first companion is
marked plot, and so is unkillable. I found myself just waiting while the
companion cleared the area, as the companion was way more effective
combatant than I was (level 9 grey orc ranger with dino companion).

Loot levels were unbalanced. There were drops of loot suited to a
much higher level pc (a pair of rings and a robe). The stores had
unrealistic amounts of gold they would buy for. If I'd sold the loot my
pc would be incredibly rich.



If this were not a module intended to learn the toolset I would probably
give it a 6-6.5, the voiceovers help, the cutscenes were good, and the
big bad was interesting. I don't feel it's fair to vote on what the
author stated was a learning experiment.

Modifié par kamal_, 28 août 2011 - 04:07 .