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[javierabegazo]

The Escapist : News : BioWare Co-Founder: RPGs Are Becoming "Less Relevant"

"It's more a function of, 'Hey, this game has a great story.' For us, [it's] having that emotion but also having other great features like combat and persistence of character progression and stuff."

-Greg Zeschuck


I like this actually, it fits in nicely with Casey Hudson's statement earlier:

Inverviewer: "What do you see as the current holy grail for RPGs right now?"

Casey Hudson: "To be honest, I don’t know.  I never consider myself an RPG developer, and I don’t really worry about traditional genre conventions other than our own goals for making a great game. Typically our goals - creating interactive story, compelling progression, intense combat, and exploration -result in games that are classified as RPGs. But my intention is always to make the best possible story-driven games, and for me and my team, the next great design that we’re excited about is what we’re doing with ME3."

- ME3 Interview with Casey Hudson - NowGamer.com


Less about Sacred Cows and conventions and more about creative techniques and Storytelling. I like this. It was always the story for me anyways

Modifié par javierabegazo, 22 août 2011 - 05:01 .

[Luigitornado]

But teh MENUZE!

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Yup. ME2 and DA2 are great examples of chopping the tired tropes out of the mechanics, which admittedly shrinks the game, but leaves the bests parts of the game behind. DA2's formula needs some work, fo sho. But it will get there. :-)

[javierabegazo]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Yup. ME2 and DA2 are great examples of chopping the tired tropes out of the mechanics, which admittedly shrinks the game, but leaves the bests parts of the game behind. DA2's formula needs some work, fo sho. But it will get there. :-)

Less "chopping" and more refined "precision surgical cuts" and I think everyone'll be happy

[littlezack]

While I agree, I'm betting it'll only take a few minutes before someone shows up and turns what he said into 'Mass Effect is being dumbed down for the masses!' or 'It's just GoW-Lite now!' or somesuch.

[Kekkis]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Yup. ME2 and DA2 are great examples of chopping the tired tropes out of the mechanics, which admittedly shrinks the game, but leaves the bests parts of the game behind. DA2's formula needs some work, fo sho. But it will get there. :-)

Be careful. They might chop out your lovely awesomesmashing and make a dating sim.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I might have jumped on the Bioware train late. But none of their games that I have played have been able to stand on their own based purely on the gameplay. I could not really care that much less about ME moving away from classical RPG elements. It is the story that matters.

[Savber100]

I sense a great storm incoming.

That said, I'm fine with Bioware's aim in making a great game without focusing on conventions etc.

But for people to start recognizing this, Bioware needs a new IP that would reflect this. Maybe an L.A. Noire-styled game?

Modifié par Savber100, 22 août 2011 - 05:30 .

[Aaleel]

I don't care what they're classified as, just make a good game with a good story.

As far as the new movement, I thought ME2 was a good, DA2 not so much. Though admittedly I like both the originals better. But as long as the game enjoyable, with a good, well paced story I don't care how it's categorized.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, that's a misleading title for what the guy was actually talking about.

[javierabegazo]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Well, that's a misleading title for what the guy was actually talking about.

I think it's just a heavy hand of "Sensationalism" that journalists like to use these days. Sad, really.

[Candidate 88766]

TBH, everyone likes Mass Effect for the story and the characters. The 'RPG features' like loot were implemented rather poorly in ME1, so I don't believe that people liked ME1 for the 'RPG features' - they liked it for the story, and that is what Bioware is focusing on so I'm very happy.

[Knight of Dane]

Interactive movies are becoming a normal abomination it seems.. :/

[Dionkey]

 Bluko made an amazing post in the other RPG thread about this and I recommend everyone to go look at it. The definition of a videogame RPG is different because we can not say whatever we want. Since games have to be linear in the sense that there is only so much content a developer can put in, story-driven choices will never be an RPG element. Stats, exploration and customization will always trump story-driven choices because they are not anywhere as limited. People who say "RPG's are about playing the role of a character" are right, but this does not mean that choosing 1 of 2 options that your character says is role-playing. I would say that every 8 out of 10 times Shepard responds in game (no matter paragon or renegade), I do NOT agree with him.

Until this barrier is broken (which in theory, will never be), story-driven choices cannot be an RPG element. Now you may ask; why are stats, exploration, and customization considered RPG elements? My answer to that is because you have full control over these things. With a wide skill tree, I can truly customize my character's proficiencies and talents. Customization allows my character to have a unique appearance and specialized weaponry that I feel fits my role. Exploration is just an outlet for all of these elements to feel like they are being put to work. Cinematic experience  is something we should never forget, but at the same time we should never put it ahead of gameplay. The day we start doing that is the day that videogames devolve.

One of the writers for Dragon Age II (I am sorry but the name is not coming me to right now) said that she would rather have a BUTTON to skip all gameplay and just go to the story. This isn't right, it's not what games were made for. I treasure story, but videogames were not supposed to be a slightly interactive alteration of movies, they were supposed to be much more than that.

Modifié par Dionkey, 22 août 2011 - 05:18 .

[Il Divo]

Savber100 wrote...

I sense a great storm incoming.

That said, I'm fine with Bioware's aim in making a great game while focusing on conventions etc.

But for people to start recognizing this, Bioware needs a new IP that would reflect this. Maybe an L.A. Noire-styled game?

This. I'm more concerned that Bioware games keep the same 'spirit' they've always had, more than I care about individual game mechanics. I also am hoping for some new IPs, once Mass Effect 3 is finished.

Overall, I'm comfortable with the article's claims, though I think this will ****** off more than a few fans.

[SpiffySquee]

Dionkey wrote...

 Bluko made an amazing post in the other RPG thread about this and I recommend everyone to go look at it. The definition of a videogame RPG is different because we can not say whatever we want. Since games have to be linear in the sense that there is only so much content a developer can put in, story-driven choices will never be an RPG element. Stats, exploration and customization will always trump story-driven choices because they are not anywhere as limited. People who say "RPG's are about playing the role of a character" are right, but this does not mean that choosing 1 of 2 options that your character says is role-playing. I would say that every 8 out of 10 times Shepard responds in game (no matter paragon or renegade), I do NOT agree with him.

Until this barrier is broken (which in theory, will never be), story-driven choices cannot be an RPG element. Now you may ask; why are stats, exploration, and customization considered RPG elements? My answer to that is because you have full control over these things. With a wide skill tree, I can truly customize my character's proficiencies and talents. Customization allows my character to have a unique appearance and specialized weaponry that I feel fits my role. Exploration is just an outlet for all of these elements to feel like they are being put to work. Cinematic experience  is something we should never forget, but at the same time we should never put it ahead of gameplay. The day we start doing that is the day that videogames devolve.

One of the writers for Dragon Age II (I am sorry but the name is not coming me to right now) said that she would rather have a BUTTON to skip all gameplay and just go to the story. This isn't right, it's not what games were made for. I treasure story, but videogames were not supposed to be a slightly interactive alteration of movies, they were supposed to be much more than that.

And again, just because story driven choice are limited does not make them non-RPG elements. If I have a lake full of water but can only put a small amount of it into a glass, does that mean the thing in the glass is no longer water?

[Il Divo]

Dionkey wrote...

Until this barrier is broken (which in theory, will never be), story-driven choices cannot be an RPG element. Now you may ask; why are stats, exploration, and customization considered RPG elements? My answer to that is because you have full control over these things. With a wide skill tree, I can truly customize my character's proficiencies and talents. Customization allows my character to have a unique appearance and specialized weaponry that I feel fits my role. Exploration is just an outlet for all of these elements to feel like they are being put to work. Cinematic experience  is something we should never forget, but at the same time we should never put it ahead of gameplay. The day we start doing that is the day that videogames devolve.

Actually, I'd argue that full control is still impossible for combat, since any rules system occupies drastic limitations. I cannot make a Mage Origins character who learns stealth techniques, for example. Many RPGs possess different "levels" of stat-based game mechanics.

Ex: Baldur's Gate possesses more stats to control than does Mass Effect. And some games (Planescape Torment) don't let you change your appearance at all.

Combat in RPGs has always been an abstraction.

Modifié par Il Divo, 22 août 2011 - 05:29 .

[Captain Crash]

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

Modifié par Captain Crash, 22 août 2011 - 05:29 .

[Arkitekt]

This shouldn't be news by now. And to hell with those who judge any game by the standards of some denomination or the other. Denominations are for those games who like not to think about what they are. They just see the definition and get over with it. Bioware knows better.

[Dionkey]

SpiffySquee wrote...

And again, just because story driven choice are limited does not make them non-RPG elements. If I have a lake full of water but can only put a small amount of it into a glass, does that mean the thing in the glass is no longer water?

That's not a fair example. In this case, it would be the lake or nothing, which is the same case for story-driven choices. If I can't relate to what Shepard is saying or I think what he is saying is completely illogical, then I am not roleplaying. I have no problem with choices being in games, but they are hardly RPG elements.

[LTiberious]

Thank god the times of RPG's where you had to grind to be good are over. Gogo Mass Effect 2 & 3

Btw playing ME1 right now - actualy i hate it, and unless i havent played ME2 before playing ME1 i would delete it the moment i first tried to shoot....

[wildannie]

I love bioware games for their story and characters and while they may not be traditional RPGs I certainly feel engaged with the role of Shepard, Hawke, the Warden etc when playing them.

I would not like Bioware to look to games like LA Noire, they're already miles ahead of it in creating compelling interactive stories.

[Therefore_I_Am]

Rezources wrote...

If it's not a math formula, I can't enjoy it.

I know right? It's sad that people think this way.

[Someone With Mass]

I'm actually glad that they're trying to do something they can call their own.