528 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

jreezy wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

...snip...

What exactly do those comments, or BW games in general, have to do with the rpg genre?

Simple. BioWare refuses to pigeonhole their games into a specific genre. Which is great.

Heh. More like trying to shake off their reputation as an RPG developer, since it's clearly hampering their ability to access the CoD market.

Conspiracy theories aren't always true.

How is it a conspiracy theory? You can get it straight from the horses' mouths, if you want it. 

[Kusy]

An absolutely random yet interesting fact. Children in early stages of development can only process things they see, that's why they start crying when their mother leaves them alone even for a few seconds, because if the said child can't see something, it does not exist for it.

[Kusy]

jreezy wrote...

Who's mouth exactly?

Horses you silly.

[Mike2640]

jreezy wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

...snip...

What exactly do those comments, or BW games in general, have to do with the rpg genre?

Simple. BioWare refuses to pigeonhole their games into a specific genre. Which is great.

Heh. More like trying to shake off their reputation as an RPG developer, since it's clearly hampering their ability to access the CoD market.

Conspiracy theories aren't always true.
Edit: What BioWare is doing with ME is Game Design 101

I wouldn't really call it a conspiracy theory as much as Occams Razor. Shooters are a much safer bet than RPGs.]

EDIT: This isn't really surprising. It's really just stating the design philosophy of Mass Effect 2. That RPGs are scary and shooters are easy for the uninitiated to quickly process.

Modifié par Mike2640, 23 août 2011 - 01:53 .

[marshalleck]

jreezy wrote...

Who's mouth exactly?

Casey Hudon, David Silverman, Greg Zeschuck, Ray Muzyka.

Edit: whoops. David, not Dan.

Modifié par marshalleck, 23 août 2011 - 01:54 .

[Kusy]

Mike2640 wrote...
I wouldn't really call it a conspiracy theory as much as Occams Razor. Shooters are a much safer bet than RPGs.

1. Play chess for many years
2. Earn renown as a great chess player
3. Go place all your money in your first 5 games of poker because people win more in that game
4. ???
5. BioWare!

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 23 août 2011 - 01:56 .

[marshalleck]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

1. Play chess for many years
2. Earn renown as a great chess player
3. Go place all your money in your first 5 games of poker because people win more in that game
4. ???
5. BioWare!

Oh oh oh, can I fill in #4?

[Bcuz]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

The Escapist article: "BioWare co-founder says RPG's are becoming less relevant...

Is it because people are becoming less intelligent?
What do i win?

This just made me ralise. Why are you people arguing that BioWare is making an evoultion of RPG when their co founder just said that they are actualy more into dumping that genre?

This. Also, what I think Bioware fails to realize is that an oustanding percentage of their sales comes from their 1 RPG fanbase who has been with them since the beginning, because they make RPG's.

 2 If you want to ****** off your core fanbase, the fanbase who made you who you are today, by telling them the genre they've supported all these years is useless, be prepared for a lighter wallet the next time you launch a game. I can't exactly say that game would be ME3, because a lot of people were invested in that since ME1, but don't expect so much sales from future titles given your continuous irreverence for the people who keep you employed. Do you honestly think that Mass Effect would have done so well if only the people who played CoD bought it?

3 If you think that by adding shooter elements into the game will make people who play CoD purchase your game you are more naive than I thought.

4 I can assure you that if your core fanbase didn't even purchase one copy of your Mass Effect games, and you marketed it the same way you're marketing it now, you wouldn't be bragging about how many copies it sold. 

5 Kicking dirt in the faces of the people who made you what you are today is not the way to go. You've shown that you aren't loyal to the people who've supported you since the beginning of your game career. Where were the CoD fanboys when you released your earliest titles? Where are they now?

6 I'll admit you might have gotten a handful of people interested in it after watering down the RPG elements, but for your sake that's not something to get cocky about.

7 We've already got a marker oversaturated with shooters, what makes you think that an RPG developer trying to become a shooter developer will be any better than a company with a reputation as a shooter dev eloper?

8 You have a marketing director who continues to insult your core fanbase, you've made many remarks over the past few years about how you want to gear your games over towards the CoD crowd, and now this? It's as if you're on a campaign to ****** off your fans as much as you can.

9 I see a bunch of CoD players who are scared to even touch Mass Effect because of the dialogue wheel.

10 You've already stripped some of it out in ME2 with the automatic dialogue every now and then, progressing the game into the action/adventure genre with a preset character. Apparently that's not good enough because they still hate the conversations.

11 So what, are you going to throw out the entire conversation wheel that you innovated and substitute it with 100% automatic dialogue from a preset Shepard? You picked a fine time to change genres on us, right in the middle of the trilogy.

12 Mass Effect is now a shooter wanabe, and Dragon Age is a Dynasty Warriors clone.

13 Congratulations, you've lost your unique style and have become just like every other developer out there.

-Polite

1. I'm not going to rant about how open, vague, and facepalm inducing thr assumptions surrounding that term are again.

2. Unless I read the OP wrong they said they would be focusing more on story and less on talent trees and inventory, which, honestly, seemed a bit forced on ME1.

3. Shooter elements in a game where you fight with guns? How absurd! /sarcasm

4. Regardless of who bought it, if it was a successful formula and the story was not yet finished, a sequel is in order. So if most of the core fanbase did not buy it, but it was successful that would be irrelevent. If Mass Effect was not successful than we would not be here discussing it.

5. If Mass Effect made money, then they would make more. Welcome to business.

6. So now that I don't have to work my way through a giant inventory which makes no sense to begin with and the talent trees are smaller it is a worse game? That makes absolutely no sense.

7. Mass Effect is more about the story than the gameplay last I heard, though the gameplay is a damn sight better than most of those shooters which cram themselves up the butt of the market. RPGs are about RP, and Mass effect still has this in abundance.

8. This I agree on, the guy is a nutcase.

9. Then they shouldn't play a RPG, simple as that, more seamless gameplay is irrelevent to the crowd they are pitching it to.

10. Give me a damn good example where it ruined the emersion.

11. Where do you come up with such bull?

12. When did Mass Effect become a wannabe? Last I checked the RPGTPS thing did not cross a line man was not ment to cross.

13. Because making a game more accessable and less overly complicated while still telling a damn good story through a damn good game makes you unoriginal copypasta. Righto then.

Well that was a long disection...

Modifié par Bcuz, 23 août 2011 - 02:07 .

[Kusy]

jreezy wrote...
I've never heard Casey, Ray, or Greg state that their objective with ME2 was to capture the COD crowd.

I heared Casey... not sure about others but since a certain incident I don't care too much about what comes from Ray Muzyka's mouth.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 23 août 2011 - 02:01 .

[Mike2640]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...
I wouldn't really call it a conspiracy theory as much as Occams Razor. Shooters are a much safer bet than RPGs.

1. Play chess for many years
2. Earn renown as a chess player
3. Go place all your money in your first 5 games of poker because people win more in that game
4. ???
5. BioWare!

Nintendo started with playing cards and "love hotels".

Okay, maybe I was playing a bit fast and loose with the definition of Occams Razor, but it makes sense. Mass Effect was a very big success for them. Maybe not as much as KOTOR (I'm not sure of the numbers), but up there. Then ME2 rolls along with less RPG elements and tighter shooter gameplay and it gets rave reviews and, most importantly, massive sales. It makes sense for them to go where the money has shown itself to be.

Modifié par Mike2640, 23 août 2011 - 02:03 .

[Weiser_Cain]

Mike2640 wrote...
I wouldn't really call it a conspiracy theory as much as Occams Razor. Shooters are a much safer bet than RPGs.

Why do I need to go to bioware for shooters?

[Kusy]

Honestly, some people itt sound like they actually believe that Mass Effect 2 had better story than KOTOR or Mass Effect 1 and that Dragon Age 2 had better story than Dragon Age: Origins... because that's what I understand when you guys keep on saying BioWare is concentrating more on story and less on the clunky mechanics.

Judging from DA2 and ME2 compared to previous games from this stable, they are not focusing on neither of those, instead they talk about it a lot.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 23 août 2011 - 02:05 .

[flemm]

So often, as fans, disgruntled or otherwise, we tend to talk about these things as if we were marketing gurus for the company, I guess because we feel like our opinion has more weight if we can attach a gigantic dollar sign to it.

Usually, this is the point of view that amounts to something like: company X is committing financial suicide by going in Y direction (that I, the fan, don't like) because it will alienate the core fanbase without recruiting any new fans, etc.

As a player, I don't enjoy the shooter combat in ME because it appeals to "shooter fans." That's a problem for the marketing division. I just enjoy it because it's a nice change from the way combat usually works in an RPG. And if I want a top of the line shooter? Well, I can play that, too.

If it turns out that Bioware is committing financial suicide by trying to make their games more fun, then that sucks, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. And I think it's unlikely where ME3 is concerned. Now SW:TOR, that's something I could see being worried about with regard to Bioware's future.

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2011 - 02:12 .

[Weiser_Cain]

"clunky mechanics" are how I interact with my character and the world around him, stripping it all down to conversation wheels and putting bullets in stuff makes it all much less interactive.

[Bcuz]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Honestly, some people itt sound like they actually believe that Mass Effect 2 had better story than KOTOR or Mass Effect 1 and that Dragon Age 2 had better story than Dragon Age: Origins... because that's what I understand when you guys keep on saying BioWare is concentrating more on story and less on the clunky mechanics.

Judging from DA2 and ME2 compared to previous games from this stable, they are not focusing on neither of those, instead they talk about it a lot.

Mass Effect 2 did not have as good of a story as ME1 by any means, but what it told, it told and played better than ME1. And honestly, ME2 is more the bridge between the 2 major acts to build up additional story, add context, and develop charicters. (On a semi-related note Liara is not derailment, it's charicter development, if you haven't read the comic please don't even try to say otherwise)

[Sarevok Synder]

Mike2640 wrote...

Nintendo started with playing cards and "love hotels".

Okay, maybe I was playing a bit fast and loose with the definition of Occams Razor, but it makes sense. Mass Effect was a very big success for them. Maybe not as much as KOTOR (I'm not sure of the numbers), but up there. Then ME2 rolls along with less RPG elements and tighter shooter gameplay and it gets rave reviews and, most importantly, massive sales. It makes sense for them to go where the money has shown itself to be.

Considering DA:O is their biggest selling game ever; that argument doesn't hold water.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 23 août 2011 - 02:13 .

[shep82]

Oooo have I missed the **** storm? I can immagine this will tick off more than a few fans luckily I'm not one of them. If Bioware keeps doing what they've done so well since the first game of theirs I played (KOTOR) I am happy as a clam.

[Weiser_Cain]

flemm wrote...

So often, as fans, disgruntled or otherwise, we tend to talk about these things as if we were marketing gurus for the company,

I know what I like, and this aint it.

[Bcuz]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

"clunky mechanics" are how I interact with my character and the world around him, stripping it all down to conversation wheels and putting bullets in stuff makes it all much less interactive.

Since I am clearly missing something here, put forth an example of a mechanic that allowed to to interact with the world/story/whatever, that was present in ME1 but not ME2.