528 réponses à ce sujet

[Bcuz]

shep82 wrote...

Oooo have I missed the **** storm? I can immagine this will tick off more than a few fans luckily I'm not one of them. If Bioware keeps doing what they've done so well since the first game of theirs I played (KOTOR) I am happy as a clam.

A satisfied customer? In my forums?

[marshalleck]

shep82 wrote...

Oooo have I missed the **** storm? I can immagine this will tick off more than a few fans luckily I'm not one of them. If Bioware keeps doing what they've done so well since the first game of theirs I played (KOTOR) I am happy as a clam.

Which is what, in your opinion?

[shep82]

Bcuz wrote...

shep82 wrote...

Oooo have I missed the **** storm? I can immagine this will tick off more than a few fans luckily I'm not one of them. If Bioware keeps doing what they've done so well since the first game of theirs I played (KOTOR) I am happy as a clam.

A satisfied customer? In my forums?

I know huh it's like a miracle eh?

[flemm]

I know what I like, and this aint it.

That's cool. It's your opinion. What I was pointing out was that, in these discussions, fans tend to inflate their opinions by associating them with portents of doom and prophecies of the financial ruin of the company in question (if said company continues down its misguided path to perdition).

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2011 - 02:17 .

[Weiser_Cain]

After Bioware's dead we're all going to look back and wonder how we didn't see it coming.

[Bcuz]

jreezy wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

flemm wrote...

So often, as fans, disgruntled or otherwise, we tend to talk about these things as if we were marketing gurus for the company,

I know what I like, and this aint it.

A lot of people on here talk as if they know what the majority like though.

It aint just here.
And here aint the worst place, there are far worse without delving to far into the great abyss of the internet.

[shep82]

marshalleck wrote...

shep82 wrote...

Oooo have I missed the **** storm? I can immagine this will tick off more than a few fans luckily I'm not one of them. If Bioware keeps doing what they've done so well since the first game of theirs I played (KOTOR) I am happy as a clam.

Which is what, in your opinion?

All the Bioware games I have played Jade Empire, Kotor,  Dragon Age and Mass Effect have had one big thing in common, story. While the other elements of RPGS were stronger in the others the RPG elements felt tacked on and not as good in ME however that didn't ruin the game for me. IT still felt like an RPG and had good (for the most part) game mechanics and excellent story. That is what keeps me hooked on this series is the story and the company in general. They are known for amzing storytelling and none of their game have had unplayable game mechanics. If they keep up that routine of developing great games they could labe it a golf sim and I'd not care.

[Mike2640]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...
I wouldn't really call it a conspiracy theory as much as Occams Razor. Shooters are a much safer bet than RPGs.

Why do I need to go to bioware for shooters?

Hey, i'm not saying I want them to make shooters, but I can understand their train of thought.

jreezy wrote...

If you're Edit was in response to my Edit I
was referring to BioWare's objective of not making games with the
intent of getting it classified into a certain genre as Game Design 101.

Nah, that was just a general edit to stay more on topic.

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

Nintendo started with playing cards and "love hotels".

Okay,
maybe I was playing a bit fast and loose with the definition of Occams
Razor, but it makes sense. Mass Effect was a very big success for them.
Maybe not as much as KOTOR (I'm not sure of the numbers), but up there.
Then ME2 rolls along with less RPG elements and tighter shooter gameplay
and it gets rave reviews and, most importantly, massive sales. It makes
sense for them to go where the money has shown itself to be.

Considering DA:O is their biggest selling game ever; that argument doesn't hold water.

And yet, here we are. Maybe they felt DA:O was getting lucky or something. Also while DA:O sold more, i'm not certain if it was as profitable as Mass Effect 2, as it took much much longer to make. With how DA2 underperformed they might see that the classic RPG formula cant be molded into a One a Year/Couple Years and still sell, which could push them further towards the more actiony, shooty games.

I'm not saying I like it, as I thought ME2 was much less interesting than ME1 (My thoughts on DA2 would take much longer to get into), but that does appear to be the pattern forming in their last few games.

[flemm]

And here aint the worst place, there are far worse without delving to far into the great abyss of the internet.

True.

[Weiser_Cain]

flemm wrote...

I know what I like, and this aint it.

That's cool. It's your opinion. What I was pointing out was that, in these discussions, fans tend to inflate their opinions by associating them with portents of doom.

I was right about DA2, I'm not alone in not liking the changes in ME2.

It would be one thing if my opinion was alone against the tide but time and again I've seen that my complaints mesh well within the RPG community.

And frankly they need to hear it. If we didn't talk about why we didn't buy a game they'd never know why it failed.

[Bcuz]

shep82 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

shep82 wrote...

Oooo have I missed the **** storm? I can immagine this will tick off more than a few fans luckily I'm not one of them. If Bioware keeps doing what they've done so well since the first game of theirs I played (KOTOR) I am happy as a clam.

Which is what, in your opinion?

All the Bioware games I have played Jade Empire, Kotor,  Dragon Age and Mass Effect have had one big thing in common, story. While the other elements of RPGS were stronger in the others the RPG elements felt tacked on and not as good in ME however that didn't ruin the game for me. IT still felt like an RPG and had good (for the most part) game mechanics and excellent story. That is what keeps me hooked on this series is the story and the company in general. They are known for amzing storytelling and none of their game have had unplayable game mechanics. If they keep up that routine of developing great games they could labe it a golf sim and I'd not care.

That's the spirit.

[shep82]

Bcuz wrote...

shep82 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

shep82 wrote...

Oooo have I missed the **** storm? I can immagine this will tick off more than a few fans luckily I'm not one of them. If Bioware keeps doing what they've done so well since the first game of theirs I played (KOTOR) I am happy as a clam.

Which is what, in your opinion?

All the Bioware games I have played Jade Empire, Kotor,  Dragon Age and Mass Effect have had one big thing in common, story. While the other elements of RPGS were stronger in the others the RPG elements felt tacked on and not as good in ME however that didn't ruin the game for me. IT still felt like an RPG and had good (for the most part) game mechanics and excellent story. That is what keeps me hooked on this series is the story and the company in general. They are known for amzing storytelling and none of their game have had unplayable game mechanics. If they keep up that routine of developing great games they could labe it a golf sim and I'd not care.

That's the spirit.

Thank you.

[Kusy]

Bcuz wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Honestly, some people itt sound like they actually believe that Mass Effect 2 had better story than KOTOR or Mass Effect 1 and that Dragon Age 2 had better story than Dragon Age: Origins... because that's what I understand when you guys keep on saying BioWare is concentrating more on story and less on the clunky mechanics.

Judging from DA2 and ME2 compared to previous games from this stable, they are not focusing on neither of those, instead they talk about it a lot.

Mass Effect 2 did not have as good of a story as ME1 by any means, but what it told, it told and played better than ME1. And honestly, ME2 is more the bridge between the 2 major acts to build up additional story, add context, and develop charicters. (On a semi-related note Liara is not derailment, it's charicter development, if you haven't read the comic please don't even try to say otherwise)

1. Mass Effect 2 had a terrible way of telling story, it was a cluster of well writen sidequests with no glue, just flying around there being vaguely realted to destroying some generic insectoids who want to destroy the world. Gameplaywise it was better than Mass Effect 1, however when Mass Effect 1 was still new the fact that it's combat lacked that much was not so obvious, standards rised up, Mass Effect 2 did not reach them. 

2. I am judging Mass Effect 2 not as a bridge between two games, I am judging it as a separate game, an installment in a trilogy, as what it was sold to me. Just because I love the whole Harry Potter series as a whole, nothing prevents me from saying that... let's say, Order of the Pheonix was a bad book. Same here, Even if Mass Effect 1 was the big bang in games industry and even if Mass Effect 3 will be another - Mass Effect 2 was a par game to me, I had fun with it, but it was not superior to other games released in the same time.

3. This doesn't really defend against my initial argument, if Mass Effect 1 indeed has a story far better than Mass Effect 2 and since Dragon Age 2 is nothing compared to Origins storywise, where is the Focusing on Story BioWare is suposed to show? They talk big, that's all.

4. If you honestly thing that the comic book explained Liara's change of character and heart from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2 in a good and believable way, I don't think we have too much to talk about.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 23 août 2011 - 02:25 .

[Bcuz]

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

After Bioware's dead we're all going to look back and wonder how we didn't see it coming.

Alot of us see it coming, its just that no one will listen...including Bioware.

World of Warcraft's community would like to have a word with you.
Something about stealing their thunder...

[Rockworm503]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

This. Also, what I think Bioware fails to realize is that an oustanding percentage of their sales comes from their RPG fanbase who has been with them since the beginning, because they make RPG's. If you want to ****** off your core fanbase, the fanbase who made you who you are today, by telling them the genre they've supported all these years is useless, be prepared for a lighter wallet the next time you launch a game. I can't exactly say that game would be ME3, because a lot of people were invested in that since ME1, but don't expect so much sales from future titles given your continuous irreverence for the people who keep you employed. Do you honestly think that Mass Effect would have done so well if only the people who played CoD bought it? If you think that by adding shooter elements into the game will make people who play CoD purchase your game you are more naive than I thought.

I can assure you that if your core fanbase didn't even purchase one copy of your Mass Effect games, and you marketed it the same way you're marketing it now, you wouldn't be bragging about how many copies it sold. Kicking dirt in the faces of the people who made you what you are today is not the way to go. You've shown that you aren't loyal to the people who've supported you since the beginning of your game career. Where were the CoD fanboys when you released your earliest titles? Where are they now? I'll admit you might have gotten a handful of people interested in it after watering down the RPG elements, but for your sake that's not something to get cocky about.

We've already got a marker oversaturated with shooters, what makes you think that an RPG developer trying to become a shooter developer will be any better than a company with a reputation as a shooter dev eloper?
You have a marketing director who continues to insult your core fanbase, you've made many remarks over the past few years about how you want to gear your games over towards the CoD crowd, and now this? It's as if you're on a campaign to ****** off your fans as much as you can.

I see a bunch of CoD players who are scared to even touch Mass Effect because of the dialogue wheel. You've already stripped some of it out in ME2 with the automatic dialogue every now and then, progressing the game into the action/adventure genre with a preset character. Apparently that's not good enough because they still hate the conversations. So what, are you going to throw out the entire conversation wheel that you innovated and substitute it with 100% automatic dialogue from a preset Shepard? You picked a fine time to change genres on us, right in the middle of the trilogy. Mass Effect is now a shooter wanabe, and Dragon Age is a Dynasty Warriors clone. Congratulations, you've lost your unique style and have become just like every other developer out there.

-Polite

LOL its amazing the kind of entiltment people have for a game company.
This whole thing is "you were an RPG game designer and should ALWAYS be an RPG designer."
I understand where your coming from but expecting Bioware to never change we'd be playing the same game over and over and over.
and your shooter BS makes no sense.  Most of us find those games boring and not worth the time.  Its either a full blown RPG or it a shooter... We can't have a middle ground?
Oh btw you never even touched Dynasty Warriors if you think Dragon Age is a clone of that.

[Sarevok Synder]

Mike2640 wrote...

And yet, here we are. Maybe they felt DA:O was getting lucky or something. Also while DA:O sold more, i'm not certain if it was as profitable as Mass Effect 2, as it took much much longer to make. With how DA2 underperformed they might see that the classic RPG formula cant be molded into a One a Year/Couple Years and still sell, which could push them further towards the more actiony, shooty games.

I'm not saying I like it, as I thought ME2 was much less interesting than ME1 (My thoughts on DA2 would take much longer to get into), but that does appear to be the pattern forming in their last few games.

No; DA:O didn't just outsell ME2; it trounced it. As to why they are going this direction is obvious; EA.

[Mike2640]

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

After Bioware's dead we're all going to look back and wonder how we didn't see it coming.

Alot of us see it coming, its just that no one will listen...including Bioware.

If Bioware goes down it'll probably be because of TOR. Mass Effect is too hot a property to fail at this point, it'll probably be a while until we see another Dragon Age after 2, after TOR is out anyway, and any potential new IP will probably have sufficient buzz to do well, being from "The Creators of MASS EFFECT".

And really, from what little i've heard, the game is bland, but has the Star Wars appeal and is, of course, from "The Creators of MASS EFFECT", so it could honestly go either way.

[Weiser_Cain]

jreezy wrote...

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

After Bioware's dead we're all going to look back and wonder how we didn't see it coming.

Alot of us see it coming, its just that no one will listen...including Bioware.

Conspiracy theories aren't always true. Man i hate to repeat myself

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Bcuz]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

jreezy wrote...

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

After Bioware's dead we're all going to look back and wonder how we didn't see it coming.

Alot of us see it coming, its just that no one will listen...including Bioware.

Conspiracy theories aren't always true. Man i hate to repeat myself

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I believe the term he is looking for is more along the lines of naysayer.

[flemm]

If Bioware goes down it'll probably be because of TOR. Mass Effect is too hot a property to fail at this point...

Pretty much, yeah. ME3 is a very secure investment. Some people will not like it, and that's fine, but money will not be lost. SW:TOR is a much, much bigger question mark. Here the miscalculation may have been the market for a traditional MMO with deeper story elements.

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2011 - 02:31 .