528 réponses à ce sujet

[Sepewrath]

Mike2640 wrote...
I think you're painting a very large community with a very wide brush. Sure, some people probably wish it was Origins.  I think it's more accurate to say that people would like it to be more like Origins than it was, but that's neither here nor there because it's still easy to criticize DA2 on it's own. You think it's more likely someone doesn't like it because it's not Origins rather than the multitude of documented flaws and problems with DA2?

I'm not, like I said, when attention is called to it, people claim otherwise. And of course DA2 had its flaws, but again like I said, Origins had a ton of flaws, that people ignore. Cliche story, with terrible storytelling, awful characterization that made your party nothing but the standard archetypes, a PC that was irrelevant to the plot, several plot points that directly contradicted the lore, horrible combat and bugs and glitches galore. Yet all of this fine, but the problems of DA2 cant be overlooked and that doesn't strike you as odd? I hazard to guess that DA2 was just like Origins, complete with all the flaws, no one would say a thing.

[Mike2640]

Sepewrath wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...
I think you're painting a very large community with a very wide brush. Sure, some people probably wish it was Origins.  I think it's more accurate to say that people would like it to be more like Origins than it was, but that's neither here nor there because it's still easy to criticize DA2 on it's own. You think it's more likely someone doesn't like it because it's not Origins rather than the multitude of documented flaws and problems with DA2?

I'm not, like I said, when attention is called to it, people claim otherwise. And of course DA2 had its flaws, but again like I said, Origins had a ton of flaws, that people ignore. Cliche story, with terrible storytelling, awful characterization that made your party nothing but the standard archetypes, a PC that was irrelevant to the plot, several plot points that directly contradicted the lore, horrible combat and bugs and glitches galore. Yet all of this fine, but the problems of DA2 cant be overlooked and that doesn't strike you as odd? I hazard to guess that DA2 was just like Origins, complete with all the flaws, no one would say a thing.

Well they'd probably be saying different things because that would make it different than the product we got. Also the problems you mentioned for Origins are far more subjective than the ones pointed out for DA2, minus the lore thing of which I'm not familiar with. What were the contradictions?

[Sepewrath]

The problems with DA2 outside of the bugs and the environments are subjective too. An elf and a Grey Warden making the big choice in the Landsmeet. Wardens who are not suppose be involved political, even though I let that one slide, because of Alistair. But an Elf from the Alienage, who a few months ago, was about be raped, just because you can do that in DA. Is making this decision and people actually listen? That's ridiculous.

[Mike2640]

Sepewrath wrote...

The problems with DA2 outside of the bugs and the environments are subjective too. An elf and a Grey Warden making the big choice in the Landsmeet. Wardens who are not suppose be involved political, even though I let that one slide, because of Alistair. But an Elf from the Alienage, who a few months ago, was about be raped, just because you can do that in DA. Is making this decision and people actually listen? That's ridiculous.

Fair enough on the lore issue. I guess more people had issues with DA2's problems than Origins? Maybe Origins was just better at hiding it's flaws? I still don't think people are complaining purely because they wanted DA2 to be Origins, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

At any rate we've kind of strayed off topic here.

[RiouHotaru]

Il Divo wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

I'm not saying it didn't outsell ME2, but I question whether it was more profitable. ME2 came out in two years and was very successful. Dragon Age took six years (I think?) to get to shelves? Wildly successful yes and, in my opinion, their best work, but that's a lot of budget to cover.

And yeah, being part of a major publishing company probably did have an effect on where they go business-wise, especially since (I think) EA's in kind of a financial bind lately.

Five years, I believe. They'd been working on it since at least Jade Empire.

Man if DA:O was in development for 5-6 years why did it STILL have so many problems?

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Very misleading title. It sounded like they were going to trash RPGs. I agree with the fact that story is the most important part of a game.

[Bryy_Miller]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

I'm not saying it didn't outsell ME2, but I question whether it was more profitable. ME2 came out in two years and was very successful. Dragon Age took six years (I think?) to get to shelves? Wildly successful yes and, in my opinion, their best work, but that's a lot of budget to cover.

And yeah, being part of a major publishing company probably did have an effect on where they go business-wise, especially since (I think) EA's in kind of a financial bind lately.

Five years, I believe. They'd been working on it since at least Jade Empire.

Man if DA:O was in development for 5-6 years why did it STILL have so many problems?

Because "in development" can mean any number of things. They possibly were not actually MAKING it (code, animation, etc.) for at least the last two to three. But who knows.

[wzn123123]

It's hard to tell from this article

[Rockworm503]

LPPrince wrote...

*Waits for someone to discuss DXHR again*

some stupid game coming out?

[Rockworm503]

Gatt9 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

After Bioware's dead we're all going to look back and wonder how we didn't see it coming.

Alot of us see it coming, its just that no one will listen...including Bioware.

LOL you guys sound like the end of the world people.  Mark your calenders December 21st I think?
The END IS NIGH SHOOTERS ARE A BLIGHT!

I don't mean this to sound like a flame,  though I think it will and I apologize in advance...

You really don't get what's happening right now.

This is a bit old,  but still relevant,  and *really* good place to start understanding what's happening and why.

http://www.firingsqu...ent/default.asp

Publishers call the shots,  what they want is what gets produced.  Publishers aren't interested in making quality games,  they're interested in making big selling games,  and so all they're interested in is the games the genres that have traditionally sold the best.  This is why all the other genres are dead,  this is why ME is now a TPS,  and why Ubisoft is declaring all strategy dead.

It's not because there's any truth in it,  10 seconds of investigating Pokemon's sales blow all the assertions out of the water (TB RPG,  sold more units than any other series ever except maybe Mario).  It's because all they care about is the biggest profit margin.

This is not healthy.  Imagine if all Hollywood made was Harry Potter and Pirates clones,  all TVLand did was American Idol clones.  People wouldn't continue watching it long,  same thing happens with games,  keep making the same game and people eventually quit buying it,  much faster when you've coalesced the entire industry into one genre.

Then consider,  EA spent 700 million for Bioware,  a habitual 2-3 million unit studio,  they spent 1 billion buying Popcap years after Bejeweled ran it's course.  They're desperate because they know that EA wasn't going to last without doing something,  which is also why they're throwing darts at every current trend that might be related to gaming.  Zenimax's no better,  they borrowed a ton of cash to buy studios except Bethseda's the only studio brining in revenue. 

After reading the article,  go to Gamespot and seach "NPD (Insert month)" for 2010 and 2011,  look at the percentage drops. 

Then I'll make alot more sense to most of you.

I get that many of you don't like me,  set it aside for 5 minutes,  read the article.  I promise you,  the gaming industry will make *alot* more sense to you when you get to the end of it.  In honesty,  that's probably the single best piece of gaming journalism in a decade,  and no,  nowhere in it does it rely on,  or even bring up controversial topics.

Keep in mind though,  the article was written before the EA purchases,  and the Zenimax purchases,  and before Activision lucked into Blizzard,  which changes some conclusions.  Activision moves up,  EA and Zeni have more problems.

I'm going to give you the same curtosey you give anyone who disagrees
"i'm not reading that a wast of time"
Oh wait no I'm not your worried games are going to end up with the same thing over and over... yet all you want are RPGs.
*COUGH* hypocrite *COUGH*

[Ultramarinus]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Yup. ME2 and DA2 are great examples of chopping the tired tropes out of the mechanics, which admittedly shrinks the game, but leaves the bests parts of the game behind. DA2's formula needs some work, fo sho. But it will get there. :-)

Chopping off an RPG to produce shooter and hack&slash respectively. They should drop the "we make RPG!" claim so their older fans can safely ignore their games from now on. If I want a shooter, I'll buy it from some company who actually manages to do a decent shooter. Not a poor shooter with dialogues.

[Massadonious1]

Congratulations, you bought Baldur's Gate with your lunch money. I don't see why your patronage is suddenly worth more than everyone elses.

[Savber100]

Rockworm503 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

*Waits for someone to discuss DXHR again*

some stupid game coming out?

lol. 

I understand some people are upset but dissing Deus Ex just makes you kinda look retarded and ignorant, seeing how that the the original is one of the holy grails of great games. Unless you were joking and I totally missed the humor. 

[CroGamer002]

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

Excuse me, but what's this?

[littlezack]

It really seems like he said that the definition of an RPG is less relevant, not the genre as a whole.

[Fixers0]

Mesina2 wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

Excuse me, but what's this?

A wiki article for a game published in 1996?

[CroGamer002]

^Eh, that's very first Bioware game.

If you don't trust Wiki( for obvious reasons) you can find out somewhere else.

[Savber100]

Fixers0 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

Excuse me, but what's this?

A wiki article for a game published in 1996?

It was Bioware's first game which was an action game. Also look at MDK2, a game released right after Baldur's Gate, it was clear that Bioware never wanted to be solely associated with RPGs. 

[littlezack]

Don't forget Jade Empire - probably the most un-RPG 'RPG' they've ever made, and released years before EA took hold. It has far less RPG elements than ME2 does.

Modifié par littlezack, 23 août 2011 - 06:53 .

[Mister Mida]

Savber100 wrote...

It was Bioware's first game which was an action game. Also look at MDK2, a game released right after Baldur's Gate, it was clear that Bioware never wanted to be solely associated with RPGs. 

If that's even true, they've done a really bad job at it. Whether you want to accept it or not, Bioware these days and for many years is known for RPG. Them saying they want to move away from it will ****** people off. But I'm sure Bioware is thinking of the priiiiizzze.

[Brenon Holmes]

This doesn't really seem ME3 related...?

[CroGamer002]

Mister Mida wrote...

If that's even true,

It is a fact that Shattered Steel is Bioware's very first game.

they've done a really bad job at it.

Reviews for it's time said it's pretty good game that is also unique for it's good story, since most games of that kind never even had a story at the time.

Whether you want to accept it or not, Bioware these days and for many years is known for RPG. Them saying they want to move away from it will ****** people off. But I'm sure Bioware is thinking of the priiiiizzze.

Mass Effect is hybrid of shooter and RPG and is known like that.
And there's lot of douchebags people who claim it's a pure shooter. At least for 2nd and 3rd one.