528 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Those elements became part of a genre for a reason. Look, you can make an action movie without explosions but you're not giving a good portion of the audience what they thought they were paying for.

I'd disagree. The Bourne Trilogy relies very little on explosions and took a more gritty approach to its action elements, which I actually preferred. Explosions may be expected in an action film, but they're hardly necessary (like the inventory).

Modifié par Il Divo, 23 août 2011 - 11:18 .

[Massadonious1]

Weiser_Cain wrote...
Those elements became part of a genre for a reason. Look, you can make an action movie without explosions but you're not giving a good portion of the audience what they thought they were paying for.

That would be true if Michael Bay was the only movie director in exsitence.

There are plenty of "action" movies that are well made/entertaining/thought provoking or have otherwise been sucesses without crap blowing up every 5 minutes.

Same can be said for RPG's. The Witcher games, for example, aren't based off D&D (the system that apparently was the birth of the cRPG in the first place), so that means no THACO or weight tolerances for inventories. There is no traditional levelling system either. (Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, etc.) And combat (at least in the second) is largely real time and is intentend to play as such. And besides hairstyles, you can't even customize your character! Yet it has achieved God status around here, even though it lacks some of the core systems that people continually argue that RPG's need in their games to be considered, well, RPG's.

I love the games myself, but I can't help but feel that people have selctional or a personal bias and are willing to let some of these things slide for whatever reason. And yet when it comes to something like ME, a game that was always intended to be a hybrid, peope are suddenly suprised and outraged when the shooter elements were redesigned. It's it just because of the guns and the parallel they draw to popular shooter franchies such as CoD and GoW? Do fantasy based games get a pass? For all the hate that DA2 has recieved, I have rarely seen anyone try to argue that as bad as it was, it wasn't still an RPG in the grander scheme of things.

[Il Divo]

Massadonious1 wrote...
I love the games myself, but I can't help but feel that people have selctional or a personal bias and are willing to let some of these things slide for whatever reason. And yet when it comes to something like ME, a game that was always intended to be a hybrid, peope are suddenly suprised and outraged when the shooter elements were redesigned. It's it just because of the guns and the parallel they draw to popular shooter franchies such as CoD and GoW? Do fantasy based games get a pass? For all the hate that DA2 has recieved, I have rarely seen anyone try to argue that as bad as it was, it wasn't still an RPG in the grander scheme of things.

I have. I think my favorite argument for why DA2 wasn't an RPG was "choices felt like they didn't matter".

[Gatt9]

Rockworm503 wrote...
I'm going to give you the same curtosey you give anyone who disagrees
"i'm not reading that a wast of time"
Oh wait no I'm not your worried games are going to end up with the same thing over and over... yet all you want are RPGs.
*COUGH* hypocrite *COUGH*

You're not very good at reading are you?  What I actually had said in that thread was that "I'm not watching that video,  I already know what it says".

If you're going to try and flame me,  at least get it right,  or even remotely close.

[nikki191]

well i am starting to be concerned about biowares direction to be honest. ive played their games since the early days , i loved dragonage. and racked up over 600 hours in it all up and was looking forward to DA2 yet i lost interest in it and have never purchased it.. the mass effect series i liked some of the changes in 2 other changes i wasnt too keen on. ill still get 3 i want to find out how my shepards story ends, but to be honest i cant see myself purchasing anything else from bioware at this stage which is a shame.

yes this is personal opinion and bioware are entirely free to change the direction of their company and products as they choose as i have the right to buy from other companies that make the games i want to play

[Il Divo]

Gatt9 wrote...

You're not very good at reading are you?  What I actually had said in that thread was that "I'm not watching that video,  I already know what it says".

If you're going to try and flame me,  at least get it right,  or even remotely close.

Umm, no it's not. The statement you are referring to is on page 1.

Gatt9 wrote...
"1. I'm not wasting 10 minutes of my life to watch a video of the same defense I've been reading for weeks. The presentation is irrelevant, making "The story makes it an RPG! Any game with a story is an RPG!" in a video doesn't make it any more true than writing the text."

What he is referring to is on page 7. I think a paraphrase of your statement can be considered more than remotely close.

Modifié par Il Divo, 23 août 2011 - 12:22 .

[rolson00]

iAmLegion2183 wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

if rpg gets taken away even more then im done with bioware

Wah wah wah. Just play the game when it comes out, if you don't like it trade it in.  Stop being so melodramatic.

how about you act like an adult? im not being melodramatic i play rpgs i'm only stating that if they lessen that feature in their games i won't waste my money on them i dont crap out gold bars nor do i grow orchards of money trees.

[Feraele]

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

I'm glad someone else noted that.  It's like they are distancing themselves from the very thing that they are well-known for.  Why?    Is the grass truly greener on the other side, to the extent that Bioware is willing to forgo their current fanbase for something..that "might" be better.   

   Such a gamble.   Meanwhile if that doesn't work out,  you are alienating alot of those fans, myself included.     Already I refuse to buy the Legends dlc,  and from the sounds ot things DA:3 is just not going to be a purchase.     I have the collector's edition of Origins, bought every single dlc PRIOR to the ultimate edition appearing..and Awakening.   I even pre-ordered DA:2.

And there it stops, til I see some proof, that this was just a small detour and these guys get back on track.  If they have no intentions of getting back on track, well...c'est la vie I guess?       I keep hanging on hoping for some glimmer of information that proves me wrong, but that's not happening.

How sad.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Feraele wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

I'm glad someone else noted that.  It's like they are distancing themselves from the very thing that they are well-known for.  Why?    Is the grass truly greener on the other side, to the extent that Bioware is willing to forgo their current fanbase for something..that "might" be better.   

   Such a gamble.   Meanwhile if that doesn't work out,  you are alienating alot of those fans, myself included.     Already I refuse to buy the Legends dlc,  and from the sounds ot things DA:3 is just not going to be a purchase.     I have the collector's edition of Origins, bought every single dlc PRIOR to the ultimate edition appearing..and Awakening.   I even pre-ordered DA:2.

And there it stops, til I see some proof, that this was just a small detour and these guys get back on track.  If they have no intentions of getting back on track, well...c'est la vie I guess?       I keep hanging on hoping for some glimmer of information that proves me wrong, but that's not happening.

How sad.

This. I keep waiting for something to show that they're still the talented developers from long ago. Every time I do, something pops up. First the "We want CoD's crowd", then DA2, then David Silvermans fan insults, and now this. Blow after blow. ME3 will be my last game. Why support a company who doesn't value it's fanbase, and wants to trade them in for a bunch of casual gamers?


-Polite

[Terror_K]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

I'm glad someone else noted that.  It's like they are distancing themselves from the very thing that they are well-known for.  Why?    Is the grass truly greener on the other side, to the extent that Bioware is willing to forgo their current fanbase for something..that "might" be better.   

   Such a gamble.   Meanwhile if that doesn't work out,  you are alienating alot of those fans, myself included.     Already I refuse to buy the Legends dlc,  and from the sounds ot things DA:3 is just not going to be a purchase.     I have the collector's edition of Origins, bought every single dlc PRIOR to the ultimate edition appearing..and Awakening.   I even pre-ordered DA:2.

And there it stops, til I see some proof, that this was just a small detour and these guys get back on track.  If they have no intentions of getting back on track, well...c'est la vie I guess?       I keep hanging on hoping for some glimmer of information that proves me wrong, but that's not happening.

How sad.

This. I keep waiting for something to show that they're still the talented developers from long ago. Every time I do, something pops up. First the "We want CoD's crowd", then DA2, then David Silvermans fan insults, and now this. Blow after blow. ME3 will be my last game. Why support a company who doesn't value it's fanbase, and wants to trade them in for a bunch of casual gamers?

-Polite

This x 10,000,000

This is basically why Dragon Age is dead to me and why ME3 will likely be my last BioWare game unless they get their act together. Dragon Age was killed after DA2 after I had everything from DAO and David Gaider's novels not because DA2 was a bad game, but because of the intent and purpose and deliberate sabotage on the part of the developers,  which was all too clear given comments both leading up to and shortly after release. It was an intentional middle-finger to the original IP and the concept of it being a series taking them back to their roots and a proper PC RPG and spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. The whole IP was shifted more towards potential new fans than for existing ones, to the point of a near-on reboot and even an artistic style change that leaves it as almost nothing like the original material. BioWare and the DA team spit in our faces and stabbed us in the back intentionally with the direction they took Dragon Age, and they aren't getting another cent from me on that side of things. The IP had so much potential, but is now completely wasted in such an insulting and deceitful way.

And BioWare wonder why some of us are unhappy and disgruntled with them... <_<

[slimgrin]

Honestly, I've seen Greg in a number of interviews and he comes across as very verbose. I don't think statements like this are really mulled over before he spits it out. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 août 2011 - 05:23 .

[Dexi]

Terror_K wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

I'm glad someone else noted that.  It's like they are distancing themselves from the very thing that they are well-known for.  Why?    Is the grass truly greener on the other side, to the extent that Bioware is willing to forgo their current fanbase for something..that "might" be better.   

   Such a gamble.   Meanwhile if that doesn't work out,  you are alienating alot of those fans, myself included.     Already I refuse to buy the Legends dlc,  and from the sounds ot things DA:3 is just not going to be a purchase.     I have the collector's edition of Origins, bought every single dlc PRIOR to the ultimate edition appearing..and Awakening.   I even pre-ordered DA:2.

And there it stops, til I see some proof, that this was just a small detour and these guys get back on track.  If they have no intentions of getting back on track, well...c'est la vie I guess?       I keep hanging on hoping for some glimmer of information that proves me wrong, but that's not happening.

How sad.

This. I keep waiting for something to show that they're still the talented developers from long ago. Every time I do, something pops up. First the "We want CoD's crowd", then DA2, then David Silvermans fan insults, and now this. Blow after blow. ME3 will be my last game. Why support a company who doesn't value it's fanbase, and wants to trade them in for a bunch of casual gamers?

-Polite

This x 10,000,000

This is basically why Dragon Age is dead to me and why ME3 will likely be my last BioWare game unless they get their act together. Dragon Age was killed after DA2 after I had everything from DAO and David Gaider's novels not because DA2 was a bad game, but because of the intent and purpose and deliberate sabotage on the part of the developers,  which was all too clear given comments both leading up to and shortly after release. It was an intentional middle-finger to the original IP and the concept of it being a series taking them back to their roots and a proper PC RPG and spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. The whole IP was shifted more towards potential new fans than for existing ones, to the point of a near-on reboot and even an artistic style change that leaves it as almost nothing like the original material. BioWare and the DA team spit in our faces and stabbed us in the back intentionally with the direction they took Dragon Age, and they aren't getting another cent from me on that side of things. The IP had so much potential, but is now completely wasted in such an insulting and deceitful way.

And BioWare wonder why some of us are unhappy and disgruntled with them... <_<

Well, sorry to hear. The Bandwagon will miss you ( well, the members probably won't, but the forever arguing spirit of the board will).
But hey, cya! 

[Feraele]

Dexi wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

I'm glad someone else noted that.  It's like they are distancing themselves from the very thing that they are well-known for.  Why?    Is the grass truly greener on the other side, to the extent that Bioware is willing to forgo their current fanbase for something..that "might" be better.   

   Such a gamble.   Meanwhile if that doesn't work out,  you are alienating alot of those fans, myself included.     Already I refuse to buy the Legends dlc,  and from the sounds ot things DA:3 is just not going to be a purchase.     I have the collector's edition of Origins, bought every single dlc PRIOR to the ultimate edition appearing..and Awakening.   I even pre-ordered DA:2.

And there it stops, til I see some proof, that this was just a small detour and these guys get back on track.  If they have no intentions of getting back on track, well...c'est la vie I guess?       I keep hanging on hoping for some glimmer of information that proves me wrong, but that's not happening.

How sad.

This. I keep waiting for something to show that they're still the talented developers from long ago. Every time I do, something pops up. First the "We want CoD's crowd", then DA2, then David Silvermans fan insults, and now this. Blow after blow. ME3 will be my last game. Why support a company who doesn't value it's fanbase, and wants to trade them in for a bunch of casual gamers?

-Polite

This x 10,000,000

This is basically why Dragon Age is dead to me and why ME3 will likely be my last BioWare game unless they get their act together. Dragon Age was killed after DA2 after I had everything from DAO and David Gaider's novels not because DA2 was a bad game, but because of the intent and purpose and deliberate sabotage on the part of the developers,  which was all too clear given comments both leading up to and shortly after release. It was an intentional middle-finger to the original IP and the concept of it being a series taking them back to their roots and a proper PC RPG and spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. The whole IP was shifted more towards potential new fans than for existing ones, to the point of a near-on reboot and even an artistic style change that leaves it as almost nothing like the original material. BioWare and the DA team spit in our faces and stabbed us in the back intentionally with the direction they took Dragon Age, and they aren't getting another cent from me on that side of things. The IP had so much potential, but is now completely wasted in such an insulting and deceitful way.

And BioWare wonder why some of us are unhappy and disgruntled with them... <_<

Well, sorry to hear. The Bandwagon will miss you ( well, the members probably won't, but the forever arguing spirit of the board will).
But hey, cya! 

Bandwagon?    I do think we have a right to express our disappointment with what's going on with our games,  especially seeing the about-face and radical changes that took place with Dragon Age.    I think if things had happened a little more gradually, instead of the obvious tossing of Dragon Age: Origins in the trash bucket, in favour of the new and improved "action rpg" that was Dragon Age:2,  there wouldn't have been as much consternation.

Everything was changed, Dragon Age 2 now resembles Mass Effect, dialogue wheel,  premade bioware character etc.    Qunari and darkspawn changed...art direction changed.      Mr Silverman stating that we don't need all that nasty detail such as books on the library floor, or different colours for the different areas of the world.   It should all be the same thing..according to what he told one of the game reviewers.

  Detail is distracting according to him, but you know..Dragon Age: Origins has tons of details, and that is expressly why I went back and replayed that game over and over 23 times.    Lots to find, discover etc in Origins, but all that nasty detail is distracting to their new audience, evidently.

[rolson00]

Feraele wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

I'm glad someone else noted that.  It's like they are distancing themselves from the very thing that they are well-known for.  Why?    Is the grass truly greener on the other side, to the extent that Bioware is willing to forgo their current fanbase for something..that "might" be better.   

   Such a gamble.   Meanwhile if that doesn't work out,  you are alienating alot of those fans, myself included.     Already I refuse to buy the Legends dlc,  and from the sounds ot things DA:3 is just not going to be a purchase.     I have the collector's edition of Origins, bought every single dlc PRIOR to the ultimate edition appearing..and Awakening.   I even pre-ordered DA:2.

And there it stops, til I see some proof, that this was just a small detour and these guys get back on track.  If they have no intentions of getting back on track, well...c'est la vie I guess?       I keep hanging on hoping for some glimmer of information that proves me wrong, but that's not happening.

How sad.

yes both of these points:) (although i didnt like da2's direction so i didnt get it)

Modifié par rolson00, 24 août 2011 - 12:06 .

[KenKenpachi]

Pft well I did like the changes in Dragon Age 2, minus a few, which bioware has admitted a few mistakes were made in terms of story play, which they will attempt to fix with DLC, and honestly Legends is a great DLC, more of that should have been in the game. *which was the main issues imo, I loved the interface, and most of the gameplay changes.* and from the local sales figures in my area, versus those of DA:O so did alot of others :P/

[csfteeeer]

Sepewrath wrote...

Icinix wrote...
WWIII didn't happen because DA2 went against the Status Quo.
WWIII happened because DA2 was poorly executed.

It must have been, because Origins is a greatly flawed product itself but you wouldn't think so, given the fan response. But when you look that reaction to DA2, its not DA2 is bad game, its "DA2 is not Origins" people can try and claim otherwise, but go look at the Dragon Age boards, read what people say and that is the only message you will get.  People do not like change and its not like thats unique to BSN, but BSN is the place where people try to deny that its the reason their upset. At least Smash Brothers fan say "I don't like Brawl because its not Melee" Its the same with ME2, people are upset that its not ME1, that there was no Saren to chase, that you couldn't carry 50 armors and 80 guns like ME1. People say otherwise when their called on it, but otherwise during their standard complaining, that's all they say.

DA2 has several flaws,
like Origins, but most of your flaws are subjective(didn't liked the
characters? too bad, didn't enjoyed the storytelling? too bad, didn't
liked the combat? well cry me a river, too bad), unlike many of DA2's
flaws (several incoherences(for an example of that, Click here)pathtically lazy design choices (Parachuting Ninjas
anyone?), lack of development for several IMPORTANT characters (Orsino,
prime example, and in case you bring it up, Loghain can be developed if
you recruit him, so shut up), horrible bugs(DAO had bugs, but then, it's what people expect from a big game liked DAO, but DA2 wasn't big, because it reuses information like theres no tomorrow, and many of the bugs in DA2 invalidate sidequest or even one of the few solutions for the MAIN quests ( i had one of those), etc...) that you would have to Work VERY
hard to defend.

And Please stop Talking like a Fanboy.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 25 août 2011 - 12:56 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

Dexi wrote...


Well, sorry to hear. The Bandwagon will miss you ( well, the members probably won't, but the forever arguing spirit of the board will).
But hey, cya! 

You must be from the Bungie forums huh? You act just like them over there. Anybody makes a valid critique about a game that you don't agree with and it's one of five hundred variations of the "Ok, nobody will miss you, [insert developer name here] has your money. Bye!" How original. :innocent:

-Polite

[Rockworm503]

Gatt9 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...
I'm going to give you the same curtosey you give anyone who disagrees
"i'm not reading that a wast of time"
Oh wait no I'm not your worried games are going to end up with the same thing over and over... yet all you want are RPGs.
*COUGH* hypocrite *COUGH*

You're not very good at reading are you?  What I actually had said in that thread was that "I'm not watching that video,  I already know what it says".

If you're going to try and flame me,  at least get it right,  or even remotely close.

Yeah amazing how you keep saying you know what a video says when you refuse to watch it.
I'm done nothing you say from this point will ever be taken seriously by me.

[Rockworm503]

This is what all the butthurt RPG fanatics are saying in a nutshell.

"I'm not getting the same game over and over again they just lost a loyal customer"
Ironic when their biggest complaint is that Bioware is getting CoD's fanbase. If that were true where is all the demands for multiplayer? If they really wanted Cod's fanbase they'd get rid of dialog options and cut the singleplayer down to 4 hours or something.

[Weiser_Cain]

Il Divo wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Those elements became part of a genre for a reason. Look, you can make an action movie without explosions but you're not giving a good portion of the audience what they thought they were paying for.

I'd disagree. The Bourne Trilogy relies very little on explosions and took a more gritty approach to its action elements, which I actually preferred. Explosions may be expected in an action film, but they're hardly necessary (like the inventory).

Never watched that movie never will. But your argument doesn't really work, you tried to counter my particular example but it's still action.

[Zanallen]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Never watched that movie never will. But your argument doesn't really work, you tried to counter my particular example but it's still action.

Yes, action movies have action in them. Does that mean that role-playing games only require role-playing?

[Homebound]

i think bioware's doing a lot of foreward thinking instead of stuffing themselves into the confines of a decade or so old genre. which is good. its time the rpg genre took a step ahead of the entrepid 8-bit adventurers of olde.

[Weiser_Cain]

Zanallen wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Never watched that movie never will. But your argument doesn't really work, you tried to counter my particular example but it's still action.

Yes, action movies have action in them. Does that mean that role-playing games only require role-playing?

Can't tell if you're serious.