528 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Can't tell if you're serious.

You said that it is the action that makes an action movie, right? Well, what makes a RPG? That's the problem. It has been asked several times on these forums and there are hundreds of different answers.

[Il Divo]

Weiser_Cain wrote...


Never watched that movie never will. But your argument doesn't really work, you tried to counter my particular example but it's still action.

The argument works fine. Not every action movie has to have explosions in it. Neither does every RPG have to element x to it. Take your typical Kung Fu film, for example. Where are all the explosions there?

Modifié par Il Divo, 25 août 2011 - 02:00 .

[Weiser_Cain]

Il Divo wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...


Never watched that movie never will. But your argument doesn't really work, you tried to counter my particular example but it's still action.

The argument works fine. Not every action movie has to have explosions in it. Neither does every RPG have to element x to it. Take your typical Kung Fu film, for example. Where are all the explosions there?

But every action movie has action, and that's the point. (Ninja smoke bombs by the way.)
Getting back to my definition of an RPG.
To qualify as an rpg to me there has to be a character (or characters) you make deciosions for and interact with the world through. Now after that you have a lot of choices that increse the level of interactivity and depth of the world and your character.
Nobody uses Thac0 anymore though.

[Dexi]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Dexi wrote...


Well, sorry to hear. The Bandwagon will miss you ( well, the members probably won't, but the forever arguing spirit of the board will).
But hey, cya! 

You must be from the Bungie forums huh? You act just like them over there. Anybody makes a valid critique about a game that you don't agree with and it's one of five hundred variations of the "Ok, nobody will miss you, [insert developer name here] has your money. Bye!" How original. :innocent:

-Polite

Lol, no, I hate Bungie. Never been to their forums. 
Making assumptions based on subjective view, the single most done thing on these forums. How original :innocent:

But really, don't turn it personal, enough feuds around here. 


P.S Valid critique? Oh, you mean the compilation of personal preferences not met by the game and the subjective  views?

Modifié par Dexi, 25 août 2011 - 07:04 .

[SOLID_EVEREST]

I can't believe you guys are still pandering to BioWare. They want to become a different gaming company from their roots. Hey, there are still some people that know what RPG gamers still like, and you can find them in the indie developers. Double Bear's game is looking very good from what I've been reading so far, and just the fact that they are making those games shows that some people haven't forgotten about us older RPGers.

BioWare isn't the end all be all of RPG developers, though, we still have Obsidian. They're the only company I look towards in the RPG department right now.

[Lunatic LK47]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I can't believe you guys are still pandering to BioWare. They want to become a different gaming company from their roots. Hey, there are still some people that know what RPG gamers still like, and you can find them in the indie developers. Double Bear's game is looking very good from what I've been reading so far, and just the fact that they are making those games shows that some people haven't forgotten about us older RPGers.

BioWare isn't the end all be all of RPG developers, though, we still have Obsidian. They're the only company I look towards in the RPG department right now.

Too bad Obsidian has had a track record of being under **** management. Alpha Protocol was the last straw for me.

[Il Divo]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I can't believe you guys are still pandering to BioWare. They want to become a different gaming company from their roots. Hey, there are still some people that know what RPG gamers still like, and you can find them in the indie developers. Double Bear's game is looking very good from what I've been reading so far, and just the fact that they are making those games shows that some people haven't forgotten about us older RPGers.

BioWare isn't the end all be all of RPG developers, though, we still have Obsidian. They're the only company I look towards in the RPG department right now.

Too bad Obsidian has had a track record of being under **** management. Alpha Protocol was the last straw for me.

Dungeon Siege 3 was also pretty depressing, from what I heard. Their record is pretty mixed at this point.

[KingJason13]

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

I absolutely 100% agree.

Bioware, a company founded on, and famous for, making RPG's, are spouting any feeble rationalisation required to convince us that their "change in direction" is a neccesary thing... which is complete and utter BS!

Their conciencses must be having a hard time wrapping around their newfound "Souless Corporate ****" status...

[slimgrin]

If RPG's are becoming less relevant, maybe Greg should quit trying to sell them.

[Bryy_Miller]

According to him, they don't.

[Lord Sullivan]

The great Bioware days...

Balder's Gate, Balder's Gate 2 (Even if I'm one of those people that weren't taken by those but am aware that allot of others loved these), Neverwinter Nights...

Afterward it's been pretty much down hill.

They went from Great to alright to so so to WTF!!

Trying to become the "McDonalds" of video game developers. Shame... real shame.

[DarthCaine]

They're becoming "less relevant" 'cos devs like BioWare are making them "less relevant"

[slimgrin]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

According to him, they don't.

Heh. Touche.

[Lord Sullivan]

Filament wrote...

Lord Sullivan wrote...

Trying to become the "McDonalds" of video game developers.

The most successful fast food franchise in the world?

Exactly, on the surface taste good, but the inside not so good for human healt.
Overpriced (for what you get) quick lunch of junk.

[sympathy4saren]

Terror_K wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Bioware is famous for RPGs and were all mainly RPG players.


Saying RPGs are "less relevant" is really great news for your core fanbase Greg...

I'm glad someone else noted that.  It's like they are distancing themselves from the very thing that they are well-known for.  Why?    Is the grass truly greener on the other side, to the extent that Bioware is willing to forgo their current fanbase for something..that "might" be better.   

   Such a gamble.   Meanwhile if that doesn't work out,  you are alienating alot of those fans, myself included.     Already I refuse to buy the Legends dlc,  and from the sounds ot things DA:3 is just not going to be a purchase.     I have the collector's edition of Origins, bought every single dlc PRIOR to the ultimate edition appearing..and Awakening.   I even pre-ordered DA:2.

And there it stops, til I see some proof, that this was just a small detour and these guys get back on track.  If they have no intentions of getting back on track, well...c'est la vie I guess?       I keep hanging on hoping for some glimmer of information that proves me wrong, but that's not happening.

How sad.

This. I keep waiting for something to show that they're still the talented developers from long ago. Every time I do, something pops up. First the "We want CoD's crowd", then DA2, then David Silvermans fan insults, and now this. Blow after blow. ME3 will be my last game. Why support a company who doesn't value it's fanbase, and wants to trade them in for a bunch of casual gamers?

-Polite

This x 10,000,000

This is basically why Dragon Age is dead to me and why ME3 will likely be my last BioWare game unless they get their act together. Dragon Age was killed after DA2 after I had everything from DAO and David Gaider's novels not because DA2 was a bad game, but because of the intent and purpose and deliberate sabotage on the part of the developers,  which was all too clear given comments both leading up to and shortly after release. It was an intentional middle-finger to the original IP and the concept of it being a series taking them back to their roots and a proper PC RPG and spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. The whole IP was shifted more towards potential new fans than for existing ones, to the point of a near-on reboot and even an artistic style change that leaves it as almost nothing like the original material. BioWare and the DA team spit in our faces and stabbed us in the back intentionally with the direction they took Dragon Age, and they aren't getting another cent from me on that side of things. The IP had so much potential, but is now completely wasted in such an insulting and deceitful way.

And BioWare wonder why some of us are unhappy and disgruntled with them... <_<

Exactly. Then we get lied to when one of the doctors say they focus on their core fan group.

The original post felt a lot like a public announcement: hey guys and gals...we aren't an rpg developer anymore...we make whatever games, and we focus on great stories. That's what was in essence said.

Bioware can do what they want as a company, but I believe it is a big mistake. I love good stories, but i play games to role play and I....personally....me... have a certain expectation as to the depth and roots of fundamental mechanics I deem important in a rpg. I enjoy playing those games. Cutscenes and cinematics are great with story, but i want to play rpgs, and rpgs with a certain base level of deepness in rpg mechanics I deem important.

If a company can't supply my demand anymore, other companies will step in and fill it. I'm just not imoressed, for instance, with ME3. It reeks Gears of War. To me. I'm not interested in shooters, BioWare.

I think its risky, but I wonder how many people are going to preorder DA3 or buy it at all? Do you really think all the frustrated and angry fans will just alter their demand for what they want to play? Especially after how simplified it became...how lazy it was. A lot of fans, too, just want to see the end of the trilogy in Mass Effect. Ever wonder how many are just hanging on just to finish that out?

I suspect the period is more transitionary since this philosophical shift occurred in the middle of established IP's. The next wave of new IPs will be fully integrated with the new philosophy, at which point I will need to find a developer who will make me a rich, thick organic rpg without compromising on simple, basic fundamental things like statistics and inventories. That actually make rpgs I want to play. Thank goodness Skyrim is coming out. Bethesda evolves but keeps fundamental roots established, and they run deep. That'll keep me pretty busy until Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning and the action game Dishonored.

Next year is pretty full.

But hey guys, at least they just came out and said it. At least give them that...they told us straight up. I've been hanging around like you guys hoping for a hint things are getting better, but its now official.

Enjoy your new fanbase. I've got Bethesda and CD Project who will make RPGs for me.

Modifié par sympathy4saren, 26 août 2011 - 05:37 .

[bussinrounds]

 Damn, they're not supplying my demand anymore and pretty much no other companies are stepping in and filling it.
(execpt for an Indie title here and there possibly)

     All i'm seeing are action RPGS from the AAA devs now.

[sympathy4saren]

bussinrounds wrote...

 Damn, they're not supplying my demand anymore and pretty much no other companies are stepping in and filling it.
(execpt for an Indie title here and there possibly)

     All i'm seeing are action RPGS from the AAA devs now.

I hear you. I wish there were more, too. It's so hard to develope one well...so many counteracting systems competing against each other all at once.

[sympathy4saren]

slimgrin wrote...

Bcuz wrote...

 I may be reading this wrong, so bear with me if I seem off topic.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, and a movie is a thousand pictures, then a movie is worth one million words.

If a movie is a thousand pictures (and so worth a million words), and a video game arranges those pictues in a thousand ways, then a video game is worth a billion words.

Story is important, without it there would be little reason to play (an RPG). But in a video game, the gameplay must be strong as well, otherwise the product will be worth significantly less words. Do I support better story? Of course. It is the adhesive upon the edge of your seat, and keeps us engaded. But without strong gameplay, a video game is merely a movie, and I did not just spend $80 on an interactive movie.

Exactly. I've no interest in interactive movies. I want a game.

Right on. You might see improvements in combat compared to truly traditional games, but the core rpg gameplay mechanics need to be there, and at a certain level of seasoning for veterans with experience so it isnt to dull or easy for us.

[Il Divo]

Lord Sullivan wrote...

The great Bioware days...

Balder's Gate, Balder's Gate 2 (Even if I'm one of those people that weren't taken by those but am aware that allot of others loved these), Neverwinter Nights...

Afterward it's been pretty much down hill.

They went from Great to alright to so so to WTF!!

Trying to become the "McDonalds" of video game developers. Shame... real shame.

Baldur's Gate 2 is the only game on that list that I would put on par with Bioware's later games. Both BG and NwN are highly over-rated, in my opinion.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 août 2011 - 10:08 .

[Mercannis]

So if i understand this right we can expect in the future that BIoWare will stop making RPGS if the execs think its no longer a relevant genre? (read: Not making  enough money )

As for the genres blending into one another this is being caused by the top brass as they are all so keen to maximise their damn profits. Its the same as TV , when Big Brother started everyone thought it was a great idea so the execs on other channels decided to copy it, instead of creating something new and unique themselves.
So we were overflown with crappy reality shows like Celebrity get me out of here (thanks for getting Angel cancelled tosspots) which made me feel like getting out of my damn living area.

There is a good reason that TV ratings have fallen year after year I always held out hope that gaming wouldnt follow the same path.

[KingJason13]

Considering Bioware have had their rear-ends handed to them TWICE recently, once via The Witcher 2 in the Fantasy Action RPG category, and another via Deus Ex in the Sci-fi Action RPG category, it's not surprising they want to downplay RPGs.

Both PROVING the relevance of the genre.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Il Divo wrote...

Lord Sullivan wrote...

The great Bioware days...

Balder's Gate, Balder's Gate 2 (Even if I'm one of those people that weren't taken by those but am aware that allot of others loved these), Neverwinter Nights...

Afterward it's been pretty much down hill.

They went from Great to alright to so so to WTF!!

Trying to become the "McDonalds" of video game developers. Shame... real shame.

Baldur's Gate 2 is the only game on that list that I would put on par with Bioware's later games. Both BG and NwN are highly over-rated, in my opinion.

I've played Baldur's Gate: 1; I didn't like it. I agree with both of you even the part about BioWare becoming "McDonalds"; although, the amount of success can be debated considering the flop of Dragon Age: 2.

[Il Divo]

KingJason13 wrote...

Considering Bioware have had their rear-ends handed to them TWICE recently, once via The Witcher 2 in the Fantasy Action RPG category, and another via Deus Ex in the Sci-fi Action RPG category, it's not surprising they want to downplay RPGs.

Both PROVING the relevance of the genre.

Keep in mind that one can enjoy multiple games within the same genre and setting.

Ex: If I think Baldur's Gate II is a much better game than Dragon Age: Origins, it is still possible to consider Dragon Age: Origins a good game.

Same concept. Imo, Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a better game than the Mass Effect series. However, I still consider both Mass Effect games to be enjoyable.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 août 2011 - 02:05 .