528 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Dionkey wrote...

What role do you watn to fit? If you play Mass Effect, you are fitting the role of an Alliance space marine. If we gave him the ability to choose a sword or something, it would need to take itself less seriously.

That depends. What do we consider to be "serious"? Earlier you mentioned that customization is an RPG element. If I decided to give Shepard a combat knife, does the setting lose integrity? Games like Planescape Torment have done quite well, despite not allowing armor customization. Do we consider Planescape an RPG?

Should a mage be able to use stealth? Absolutely, why not? We can say in that respect that Dragon Age is lacking in the RPG department.

But it's not about any particular scenario, and more about the overall rule. RPGs involve limitations (often times non-sensical or unfair limitations) and as players we simply go along with it. The lack of a stealth mage is a stat-based limitation, and there are other substantial examples which can be pointed out, even in DnD. Like dialogue, as players we go along with what the game allows and have to buy into the setting.

Ex: I can't role-play a character who doesn't fight the Darkspawn in Origins, since the plot revolves around the character killing Darkspawn. It still offers a substantial number of play styles, even with that limitation.

[Savber100]

Arkitekt wrote...

<rambling>

First, perhaps "must"  was a strong word. How about "strongly suggest" for your hyperactive "DEFEND BIOWARE" mind? I STRONGLY SUGGEST that Bioware proves that it's not a RPG developer through creating a differnet IP rather then taking promising franchises that were promised to be the "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2" and then butchering it with a sequel. You want to appeal to action fans, Bioware? Then, go make a new IP and appeal to them. I won't mind. Hell, I might even enjoy it. However, why take a current franchise and spin a 180 which only serves to alienate fans while appealing to people that has no interest to such games in the first place?

Second, also if you don't care, good for you but seeing that we're actually having multiple threads discussing Bioware's current path, your apathy doesn't change anything. Your opinion does not negate the concern. 

Third, if fans don't like the current direction of a beloved franchise, why the HELL should we keep silent? Bioware have shown that they listen to feedback so we give them feedback. What they do with it is up to them. 

A Mass Effect MMORPG? I honestly doubt Bioware would pull a new MMORPG when TOR isn't even out yet. But hey... concepts of basic marketing might blow your head off. 

Also, I won't mind seeing how the the current trilogy is wrapping up. I WOULD mind if Bioware had halted production after ME2 and turned ME3 into a MMORPG. Oh wait... doesn't that sound familiar.. 

Modifié par Savber100, 22 août 2011 - 06:18 .

[Kusy]

Who cares, BioWare will stop making games after 2012 if everything goes well... they will live from TOR sales for the next 6 years releasing 2 maybee 3 games in that period, while at least one of them will be just an expansion for the previous.

Because history likes to repeat itself.

[iAmLegion2183]

RPG labels have a stigma anyway.

imagine this conversation taking place in your typical american high school.

"Dude you gotta play this RPG, it is so cool"
"Dude, I'm not a nerd ****. Get the **** away from me and take your gay ass dragon **** with you. I don't want to be seen with you ever again."

[Eternal Phoenix]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Yup. ME2 and DA2 are great examples of chopping the tired tropes out of the mechanics, which admittedly shrinks the game, but leaves the bests parts of the game behind. DA2's formula needs some work, fo sho. But it will get there. :-)

I oddly enjoyed ME2 more than the first. Mind you, that was probably because of the combat and enviroments in ME2 were better. ME3 looks like the best of both worlds.

[Kusy]

iAmLegion2183 wrote...

RPG labels have a stigma anyway.

imagine this conversation taking place in your typical american high school.

"Dude you gotta play this RPG, it is so cool"
"Dude, I'm not a nerd ****. Get the **** away from me and take your gay ass dragon **** with you. I don't want to be seen with you ever again."

You eighter live in a trully bad neighbourhood or you have trully limited knowledge of the reall world... or what they say about America hits the spot and the country is trully filled with idiots.

[rolson00]

if rpg gets taken away even more then im done with bioware

[iAmLegion2183]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

iAmLegion2183 wrote...

RPG labels have a stigma anyway.

imagine this conversation taking place in your typical american high school.

"Dude you gotta play this RPG, it is so cool"
"Dude, I'm not a nerd ****. Get the **** away from me and take your gay ass dragon **** with you. I don't want to be seen with you ever again."

You eighter live in a trully bad neighbourhood or you have trully limited knowledge of the reall world... or what they say about America hits the spot and the country is trully filled with idiots.

Nah I'm just paraphrasing typical responces from CoD fans.  Ever watched the Online Gamer?

[iAmLegion2183]

rolson00 wrote...

if rpg gets taken away even more then im done with bioware

Wah wah wah. Just play the game when it comes out, if you don't like it trade it in.  Stop being so melodramatic.

Modifié par iAmLegion2183, 22 août 2011 - 06:43 .

[MajesticJazz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

What's so wrong with appealing to more people, anyway?

They'll make more money that way.

There is nothing wrong with trying to reach a larger audience. Any smart business would try to do the same to increase profitability and increase revenues.

HOWEVER,

That sort of move carries long and short term effects which can be viewed in a positive or negative way.

The Positives is that they do as I said above, they reach a larger audience and in the end, become a much profitable company which is the #1 #2 and #3 objectives of any major business.....to make profit.

The negatives can be much more complex and can be compared to many other situations in many other industries. Often when one entity tries to become bigger and exposed to a larger audience then they were previously exposed to, it often means that they sort of cut back or distance themselves from who they were at a core.


 the tl;dr version is: Do what you want, expand yourself and become a broad competitor. However understand that no matter how big you get, you MUST have respect for your core consumers because in the end, they are the only TRUE loyal consumers you have as the rest of them will just flock away at the next biggest and greatest thing on the block/industry. There is a difference between expanding your audience and starting from scratch. What Bioware is doing is effectively "downsizing" their old audience [Hardcore RPGers] and catering to a new audience [FPSers, 3rd Person Shooters, Action]. That is not the same thing as expanding because expanding is keeping what you have, but making it larger. That is different from leaving behind what you have and trying to find something ELSE that is larger.


What Bioware is doing is essentially admitting that they are historically known to be a RPG maker and their core audience who have supported them since 1998 are hardcore RPG gamers, but their focus is now elsewhere, primarily the Action/Multiplayer segments because that is what is "popular" right now. However it is a trend and like all trends, they fade. By making comments like this, Bioware is loosing their core audience to other developers with other more "core" RPG elements such as The Witcher, Dark Souls, and even Skyrim which offers a streamlined approach but still holds truely to core RPG elements. So say....8 years from now when RPGs as a genre and not a gameplay mechanic actually makes a comback [With help from the Japanese] developers is going to scramble to try to tap into this "RPG Audience" and what they will find is that the developers that continued to cater to this audience will be the most successful ones.....Bioware will not be one of them. They instead will be finding themselves struggling to regain a population of gamers that they essentially said was "irrelevant" a long time ago.

So what Bioware might be saying might sound okay NOW, but they are shooting themselves in the foot from LONGTERM perspective.

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 22 août 2011 - 06:49 .

[Bostur]

I can't really figure out what Greg was trying to say. Except that he probably doesn't care much about genre definitions, and thats not a bad thing.

As many others I also love many BW games for their story. But they could do with better designed gameplay, it often feels secondary to the story unfortunately. Some more precision cutting would be nice indeed. Gameplay design is a craft many AAA developers seems to have abandoned in their quest for ultimate fidelity.

Of course you want to make great games, but what does it take for a game to be great? That would have been much more interesting to hear about.

Modifié par Bostur, 22 août 2011 - 06:47 .

[Benji1306]

Without having read all the previous comments I have to say, this is what Bioware is/was known for (making greats rpg - story driving games) But I understand that this is not what most consumers want today. They realized that and started to make more "mainstream" friendly games. And I accept this, because no costumors - no budget to make the next awesome game. It's always a thin line to walk when trying to please the newcomers and the "old school" rpg players -- Specially old school Bioware gamers --

In my opinion, we ( the consumer) brought this to our selves, by wanting faster pasted games, more action and less story. I still think Bioware manages to make the best of both worlds. This is my own opinion though

[Nashiktal]

Well mind I havn't read the article yet, but gut reaction just by reading the title is that he is both right and wrong.

Pure RPG's of yore have been slowly losing presence in the industry. Once upon a time, the market would be flooded with them, mainly jrpg's brought over from japan. Now they kind of eek out an existence in the occasional publisher, or in a few gems like persona.

However RPG "elements" are even more prevalent than before, every game from shooters, racers, even puzzle games have taken elements from the rpg genre, sorted through them, and blended them into their own style.

Pure rpg's (as elusive as it is to define) are definitely losing presence, however the market is full of "action" rpg's as technology and technique develop. Whether thats bad or good is up to you, but the industry is changing in that direction.

[Therefore_I_Am]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Who cares, BioWare will stop making games after 2012 if everything goes well... they will live from TOR sales for the next 6 years releasing 2 maybee 3 games in that period, while at least one of them will be just an expansion for the previous.

Because history likes to repeat itself.

You need to get rid of the emo look, the hair covers your right eye way too much.

[lobi]

We need to go back to choosing an alignment at start of game so we can get actual roleplay suited to our char instead of spamming a red or blue response that almost always sounds out of character because the writer is trying to force us down the middle of the road.

Modifié par lobi, 22 août 2011 - 07:05 .

[RolandX9]

Ah well. I was planning on ME3 being the last Bioware game I preorder anyway. I can just wait for reviews on what follows.

[Medhia Nox]

Yeah - because Dragon Age 2's story was so in depth and engrossing.

This isn't even "good" fantasy fiction - it's not even better than "good" Daniel Steele novels.

His talk is a little arrogant - put more story in your stories - then come back and talk to me about how high brow your material is.

Video games are becoming/have become feel good interactive self-congratulatory junk food.

I enjoyed ME and ME 2 (DA: Origins/Balders Gate/etc. etc) - but don't go thinking you've made masterpieces of fiction here.

But I don't blame Bioware at all - I blame a lazy audience that wants regurgitated - easy to digest - celebrations of their own self-worth and cleverness. Games that say - "Your real life might be crap - but look what you've accomplished here!"

[littlezack]

Medhia Nox wrote...

But I don't blame Bioware at all - I blame a lazy audience that wants regurgitated - easy to digest - celebrations of their own self-worth and cleverness. Games that say - "Your real life might be crap - but look what you've accomplished here!"

When have videogames ever been any different?

[Dragoonlordz]

Arkitekt wrote...

-snip-

Who cares? They'll do what they'll do. If I like what they do, I buy their products. If not, tough luck. Apparently there are rumours they will make a MMPORG (damn the categories) after this one using this IP. I'm sure this will blow your head off as well.

Clearly you do... Given how agressive and nit picking like your post was.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 août 2011 - 08:03 .

[Medhia Nox]

@littlezack - thirty seconds before WoW went online. ((I jest - mostly.))

[Dragoonlordz]

I find it funny amount of people on BSN who yell out "who cares" all the time after they cared enough to actually say it instead of just ignoring and moving on. Also find it funny gamers on here calling other gamers nerds.

[shepskisaac]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Who cares, BioWare will stop making games after 2012 if everything goes well... they will live from TOR sales for the next 6 years releasing 2 maybee 3 games in that period, while at least one of them will be just an expansion for the previous.

Because history likes to repeat itself.

You do know BioWare Austion works on TOR, not Edmonton or Montreal or any other BW studio? So no, BioWare won't exactly be able to live from TOR sales for the next 6 years. Not to mention you assume it will be a success, which ain't granted at all. And not to mention you don't taken into account all the money EA pumped into TOR that first needs to recover before they can start 'living form' TOR sales at all.

[Iakus]

IsaacShep wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Who cares, BioWare will stop making games after 2012 if everything goes well... they will live from TOR sales for the next 6 years releasing 2 maybee 3 games in that period, while at least one of them will be just an expansion for the previous.

Because history likes to repeat itself.

You do know BioWare Austion works on TOR, not Edmonton or Montreal or any other BW studio? So no, BioWare won't exactly be able to live from TOR sales for the next 6 years. Not to mention you assume it will be a success, which ain't granted at all. And not to mention you don't taken into account all the money EA pumped into TOR that first needs to recover before they can start 'living form' TOR sales at all.

I think it was a half-humorous attempt to compare Bioware to Blizzard with comparisons to WoW (TOR) Starcraft (Mass Effect) and Diablo (Dragon Age)

[shepskisaac]

iakus wrote...

I think it was a half-humorous attempt to compare Bioware to Blizzard with comparisons to WoW (TOR) Starcraft (Mass Effect) and Diablo (Dragon Age)

Blahhhh in that case my sarcasmdar failed But I really doubt it would happen. BW has showed time and time again they always want to work on something new, instead of the same thing over and over again for 2 decades.

[LPPrince]

Deus Ex Human Revolution- FPS/RPG hybrid with awesomeness riddled all over it.

RPG's are still relevant. DAO wouldn't of sold so well if it wasn't relevant.

Which perplexes me as to the direction of DA2, but whatevs.

DXHR, please augment my 360. Thankies.