Aller au contenu

Photo

The Escapist article: "BioWare co-founder says RPG's are becoming less "Relevant"


528 réponses à ce sujet

#101
littlezack

littlezack
  • Members
  • 1 532 messages

sbvera13 wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Yeah. Why use the dices when we can do everything in "real time"? We only use dices in PnP games because that is the only way to do things in those games.


Perhaps because modern fans actually enjoy doing that way? Perhaps because we enjoy NOT doing things in real-time because we havea chance to sit and think it over, and then be gratified when a  well formed plan comes to fruition?


Most traditional RPGs aren't like that, though. Nine times out of ten, defeating the enemy is simply a matter of being at the right level and having the right weaponry for the job. Occasionally you'll come across an enemy that requires a certain tactic, but these are usually fairly obvious and easy to exploit. It's rare that you'll find an enemy so complex and difficult that you actually need to come up with a real strategy to win.

On the other hand, just because a game is in real-time doesn't automatically make it stupid or button-mashing. Being able to formulate plans and adapt to situations on the fly takes some skill, too. Any idiot can go into, say, Halo and start shooting crap, but knowing the battlefield, understanding the strengths and weaknesses of each weapon, anticipating the movements of other people...these require some tactics.

#102
Icinix

Icinix
  • Members
  • 8 188 messages

Marionetten wrote...

I'm sure RPGs feels the same about BioWare. Think it's time for a divorce.


They've been trying for the last few years to make it work, for the kiddies sake until they're at an age where they can deal with the seperation.

#103
LPPrince

LPPrince
  • Members
  • 54 899 messages

marshalleck wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Oh for gods sake people, DA2 was disappointing but it wasnt that bad!


Agreed. It was better than ME2, and no, I'm not joking or trolling.


I just breathed out of my ears when I read that.

#104
Mr.House

Mr.House
  • Members
  • 23 338 messages

marshalleck wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Oh for gods sake people, DA2 was disappointing but it wasnt that bad!


Agreed. It was better than ME2, and no, I'm not joking or trolling.

:wizard:

#105
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages

LPPrince wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Oh for gods sake people, DA2 was disappointing but it wasnt that bad!


Agreed. It was better than ME2, and no, I'm not joking or trolling.


I just breathed out of my ears when I read that.

I didn't think such a thing was possible. You may have sustained an injury; see a physician.

#106
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

Guest_Catch This Fade_*
  • Guests

marshalleck wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Oh for gods sake people, DA2 was disappointing but it wasnt that bad!


Agreed. It was better than ME2, and no, I'm not joking or trolling.

Sure you aren't.:D

#107
Someone With Mass

Someone With Mass
  • Members
  • 38 558 messages
I though DA2 was better when it came to squadmate banter than ME2.

#108
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages

jreezy wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Oh for gods sake people, DA2 was disappointing but it wasnt that bad!


Agreed. It was better than ME2, and no, I'm not joking or trolling.

Sure you aren't.:D

I'm not. It was better in every way but level design, and that only bombed due to reuse. I originally gave it about a 7/10 and I stand by that. ME2 on the other hand was a 5 or lower

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 août 2011 - 09:18 .


#109
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

Guest_Catch This Fade_*
  • Guests

marshalleck wrote...

jreezy wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Oh for gods sake people, DA2 was disappointing but it wasnt that bad!


Agreed. It was better than ME2, and no, I'm not joking or trolling.

Sure you aren't.:D

I'm not. It was better in every way but level design, and that only bombed due to reuse. 

You werent supposed to contradict me darn it!

#110
Mr.House

Mr.House
  • Members
  • 23 338 messages
I found the party members better in DA2
I enjoyed the combat better then ME2
Even the story in DA2 was better then ME2]

And at least the DA team talks to the fans and with Legacy shows. *goes back to playing DA2 while he looks at his dusty ME2*

Non modded DA2 is a solid 7 imho.

Modifié par Mr.House, 22 août 2011 - 09:20 .


#111
Guest_Trust_*

Guest_Trust_*
  • Guests

marshalleck wrote...

jreezy wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Oh for gods sake people, DA2 was disappointing but it wasnt that bad!


Agreed. It was better than ME2, and no, I'm not joking or trolling.

Sure you aren't.:D

I'm not. I originally gave it about a 7/10 and I stand by that. ME2 on the other hand was a 5 or lower

I concur.

Modifié par AwesomeEffect2, 22 août 2011 - 09:41 .


#112
Mr.House

Mr.House
  • Members
  • 23 338 messages

marshalleck wrote...

jreezy wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Oh for gods sake people, DA2 was disappointing but it wasnt that bad!


Agreed. It was better than ME2, and no, I'm not joking or trolling.

Sure you aren't.:D

I'm not. It was better in every way but level design, and that only bombed due to reuse. I originally gave it about a 7/10 and I stand by that. ME2 on the other hand was a 5 or lower

Plus the party memebers felt you know, alive.

#113
shepskisaac

shepskisaac
  • Members
  • 16 374 messages

Marionetten wrote...

I'm sure RPGs feels the same about BioWare. Think it's time for a divorce.

I'm still waiting for RPG purist and 90s nostalgia divorce.

#114
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

Guest_Catch This Fade_*
  • Guests

IsaacShep wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

I'm sure RPGs feels the same about BioWare. Think it's time for a divorce.

I'm still waiting for RPG purist and 90s nostalgia divorce.

Probably never gonna happen. It's the same thing with how a lot of older rap fans don't like the evolution of Hip-Hop.

#115
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages

Mr.House wrote...

And at least the DA team talks to the fans and with Legacy shows.


Legacy is out-****ing-standing. Best DLC package Bioware has ever delivered.

They deserve a great deal of credit for that.

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 août 2011 - 09:24 .


#116
Arppis

Arppis
  • Members
  • 12 750 messages

sbvera13 wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Yeah. Why use the dices when we can do everything in "real time"? We only use dices in PnP games because that is the only way to do things in those games.


Perhaps because modern fans actually enjoy doing that way? Perhaps because we enjoy NOT doing things in real-time because we havea chance to sit and think it over, and then be gratified when a  well formed plan comes to fruition?

Button-mashing is not automatically better because it's in real time.  RPG mechanics exist for a reason, and unless they are replaced with something else that fulfills that same reason, you will lose the RPG fans.


I'm a RPG fan. I do enjoy strategy in the fights, but real time offers that too. You do have to react faster and think faster, but it's just more rewarding that way. Having turn based fights has nothing to do with Roleplaying itself. It's just a fighting mechanic and the one we have in ME2 for example is diffirent mechanic. Roleplaying games don't need to limit itself to the bird-eye view and group of characters who all seem to be under your control.

Ofcourse, there should be room for roleplaying games that are basicaly strategy games too. But I think it's nice that Bioware is going for this direction, it feels good when I am assuming direct control of Shepard!

Modifié par Arppis, 22 août 2011 - 09:26 .


#117
Mr.House

Mr.House
  • Members
  • 23 338 messages

marshalleck wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

And at least the DA team talks to the fans and with Legacy shows.


Legacy is out-****ing-standing. Best DLC package Bioware has ever delivered.

They deserve a great deal of credit for that.

Yup. It still suffers from some of DA2 design issuess but overall it was an amazing product that has me looknig forward to more DA. Same can't be said for the ME series.

#118
Chewin

Chewin
  • Members
  • 8 478 messages

Mr.House wrote...

I found the party members better in DA2
I enjoyed the combat better then ME2
Even the story in DA2 was better then ME2]

And at least the DA team talks to the fans and with Legacy shows. *goes back to playing DA2 while he looks at his dusty ME2*

Non modded DA2 is a solid 7 imho.


Shame they handled it so poorly compared to ME2.

#119
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages

Mr.House wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

And at least the DA team talks to the fans and with Legacy shows.


Legacy is out-****ing-standing. Best DLC package Bioware has ever delivered.

They deserve a great deal of credit for that.

Yup. It still suffers from some of DA2 design issuess but overall it was an amazing product that has me looknig forward to more DA. Same can't be said for the ME series.

I really enjoyed all the quality banter between party members. It had a vitality and inspired feel that the main game sometimes lacked. It really felt like proper Dragon Age to me. Can't wait to see what they cook up next. After Legacy I'm fully back on board.

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 août 2011 - 09:31 .


#120
shepskisaac

shepskisaac
  • Members
  • 16 374 messages

Mr.House wrote...

Yup. It still suffers from some of DA2 design issuess but overall it was an amazing product that has me looknig forward to more DA. Same can't be said for the ME series.

Why? Customization is coming back, ME1 experience is coming back, the squad was reduced to bring back the level of interaction in the party from ME1, planet scanning is getting rebuilt. Yes, the inventory is not coming back. But that's one thing. Do you really think ME team didn't listen to criticism of ME2?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 août 2011 - 09:31 .


#121
Guest_The Big Bad Wolf_*

Guest_The Big Bad Wolf_*
  • Guests
Leave talk of Dragon Age to Dragon Age forums.

Thank you.

#122
Dionkey

Dionkey
  • Members
  • 1 334 messages
DA2 was better than ME2 in:
-Banter
-Inventory

Everything else was terrible.

#123
Fenris_13

Fenris_13
  • Members
  • 227 messages

Chewin3 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I found the party members better in DA2
I enjoyed the combat better then ME2
Even the story in DA2 was better then ME2]

And at least the DA team talks to the fans and with Legacy shows. *goes back to playing DA2 while he looks at his dusty ME2*

Non modded DA2 is a solid 7 imho.


Shame they handled it so poorly compared to ME2.


Agreed.

#124
iAmLegion2183

iAmLegion2183
  • Members
  • 110 messages

gogman25 wrote...

iAmLegion2183 wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

iAmLegion2183 wrote...

RPG labels have a stigma anyway.

imagine this conversation taking place in your typical american high school.

"Dude you gotta play this RPG, it is so cool"
"Dude, I'm not a nerd ****. Get the **** away from me and take your gay ass dragon **** with you. I don't want to be seen with you ever again."


You eighter live in a trully bad neighbourhood or you have trully limited knowledge of the reall world... or what they say about America hits the spot and the country is trully filled with idiots.


Nah I'm just paraphrasing typical responces from CoD fans.  Ever watched the Online Gamer?


It's a damned good thing that Bioware isn't trying to cater to CoD and Gears fans then, right?
Oh wait...

Yes, I will proceed to go outright now and be compeletely ignorant and selfish in many peoples eyes now but I really don't care what people think of me or my opinions.
Bioware have been dumbing down incredibly recently just so they can hit a wider demographic and it simply hurts to watch, removal of the inventory system from Mass Effect 1 which wasn't bad. It wasn't a trouble to manage your groups armour and weapons because you didn't even need to compare numbers, you just needed to compare colours and considering you quickly learned which loot was worse than yours you didn't even need to look.

My powers seemingly decreased in number, my adrenaline rush went out the window as did my push, that shield damaging ability, my grenades (that were useless, actually) my shield bolstering ability.

Instead of choosing between a ton of different armours I get to choose between a series of armour components with very little effect on gameplay (5%+ shields? Oh boy! That's really useful.) and the majority of which looked horrible, not saying that Mass Effect 1 Titan armour wasn't unnattractive, though.

Weaponry wise you're narrowed down to a select number of weapons you want, say what you will but if you say "Use the default submachine gun" and then ask me to use say, the Locust from Kasumi's loyalty I will obviously pick the later option, it was no more interesting than choosing between a weapon with low damage and a high heatsink and a weapon with high damage and low heatsink, only difference was I could sell these weapons to save for a weapon of my choice or make it into Omni-gel, or I could scale up in damage and heatsink 50 points every weapon class upgrade; and it always kept me vigilant for more. Compare this to Mass Effect 2 and it was along the lines of "Go to Omega, do Garrus' loyalty mission, grab rifle - gun for the rest of the game.

Then we look at companions, this new Vega guy...honestly? Can you make him any beefier? He's damned near enough the size of an Atlas now, his armour is so damned thick if he tried to get through a door he'd be taking the frame with him.
And poor Ashley, her hair is undone and long and flowing to the point where she might as well use it to blind the Reapers and her Spectre pay raise was spent on a cat suit and a serious boob job. She's no longer the soldier woman we knew, she's simply another sex appeal toy in Biowares arsenal.

We don't wonder around deserted planets in search of treasure, instead we visit garden worlds where a group of mechs have gotten viruses or gotten bored or a group of mercs were... doing something and we kill them and walk on out.
Missions are just linear bland pathways now, just herding you down a corridor in duck-shoots where you play duck and cover for 3 hours or just keep spamming your charge key and fire key if you're a Vanguard.

What do Bioware consider doing to bring back their fanbase, the ones who consistenly buy their games? "It's the perfect chance to jump in, just like the way when you jump in at the end of a book and say "What the hell is going on, why do I care about this person?" and we understand that, who cares about storyline and character development, there's big splosions and boobies that way! Ahurr durr! Also, we have introduced a new feature: Awesome button, you press a button and something awesome happens, so you don't have to work to become awesome and make that awesome... it happens from start to finish so you get a nice feeling of no progress!"
But since you old fools who don't understand what a good game is...we'll just toss you some horribly butchered characters from Mass Effect 1...give you...oh, I dunno... frag grenades? Yeah, those were what y'all missed.. Oh, and weapon mods! That instantly brings back all the RPG features you were missing, right?

SW:TOR and Mass Effect 3 will be the last Bioware games I buy if they continue in this direction (Just so I can finish off some story arcs I started, some I started all the way back at KOTOR 1), I know what you'll say "See you in the ones after that" and "good riddance" "No one cares" That's what happens when you criticise something or complain about something someone likes.

/Rant


Yeah you're absolutely right, you are being completely selfish.  ME isn't your game, I don't see why Bioware should have to bend over to suit your needs or other people with similar gripes.  Bioware are going to make the game they want to make.

"OMG they are removing the mind numbing stats to cater for the hurp derp CoD and Gears of War fans."
Maybe you show consider that a bloated inventory system gets in the way of telling the story.

That inventory in ME was so god damn unnessceary, because all you end up doing is kitting out everybody on your team with the most powerful weapons and armour.  I spent ages clearing out equipment I didn't need after virmire, and I had to listen to that sad piano on loop for an ETERNITY... that makes me want to slap any fan that says "bring back music on the normandy." 

"We don't wonder around deserted planets in search of treasure" ... are you kidding me.  You enjoyed driving across a barren rock just to get to the same prefab bunker.  Yeah sure that was fun...  Yeah sure the N7 missions in ME2 were rather pointless, and yes ME2's enviroments were all a bit linear, go down this corridor to this open area that has cover (there is clearly going to be fire fight here...) but at least we were falling asleep at the wheel while driving the Mako.

No doubt ME is a wonderful game.  But I've replayed ME2 more because it's a polished gaming experience.  Yes I enjoyed dealing with my team's daddy issues...  I liked to spend time talking to them.

#125
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

Guest_Catch This Fade_*
  • Guests

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Leave talk of Dragon Age to Dragon Age forums.

Thank you.

THIS