81 réponses à ce sujet

[C Barchuk]

Just curious as to what are some of the more quality modules for levels 20-30? I'm sitting looking through the module database and there are so many to pick. I'm returning back to this game after a lonnnng hiatus and hoping for any feed back here. Thanks again.

[Dorateen]

Heh, I was just talking about Indira Lightfoot's Trial and Terror in the other thread.

Have you seen that one? It was designed to be played with your MotB character, so starting level 30.

But then she added the feature to import a party. A team of 20th level adventurers would have a nice challenge.

Harumph!

[C Barchuk]

Wow, I didn't think any at that level existed. I was just hoping for a level 20 or so. I'll definitely look for that one. Thanks

[kamal_]

I don't think there are that many that start at epic levels. There are probably more that start lower and end in low epic or near epic levels. Leemer47 has a module list in one of the stickies. I don't think there are any released that go all the way 1-30.

[The Fred]

It would have to be pretty damn long to go from 1-30. Non of the OCs even do that... I suppose you could argue that NWN1's SoU + HotU does, but you need a bridging module really, and anyway that's two different expansions.

I think the thing is that it's harder to balance at higher levels. Also I was making my NWN1 campaign for L7-8 and couldn't seem to find any decent enemies for those ranges, so in NWN2 I'm just starting at 1-3 (though there are other reasons for that). I'm pretty sure there are a few mid to high teens at least, though.

[The Cow King]

I think this is a genuine problem, L1~6 are so dreadfully booring, and like 90% of all modules are 1-3 1-5 or something like that.

I'd so much rather start at L7-10.

Modifié par The Cow King, 23 août 2011 - 05:48 .

[kamal_]

There's some reasons for that. Most monsters available in nwn2 are relatively low cr, placeables are mainly generic humanoid town (eg non epic location), balancing becomes problematic at high levels, story becomes more of an issue (can't just do goblins threatening the town for an epic hero). Also many people prefer the lower levels.

One way to see a high level module is making one for the community of course.

[Dorateen]

The Cow King wrote...

I'd so much rather start at L7-10.

Yeah, for me, I think that pretty much marks the sweet spot in Dungeons & Dragons.

In AD&D, a fighter reaching 7th level got a second attack every other round. That was always a great moment.

Harumph!

[Eguintir Eligard]

There are numerous other reasons. I don't like to start a heroic story halfway through their career, and obviously others feel the same because that level 1 start is so common. As for these games that go 1 to near epic levels you got me mystified...

There are probably more that start lower and end in low epic or near epic levels.

Near epic? where??
I have yet to play a campaign that even cleared level 10 and I hit all the top ranked ones at some point.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 24 août 2011 - 12:24 .

[kamal_]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

There are numerous other reasons. I don't like to start a heroic story halfway through their career, and obviously others feel the same because that level 1 start is so common. As for these games that go 1 to near epic levels you got me mystified...

There are probably more that start lower and end in low epic or near epic levels.

Near epic? where??
I have yet to play a campaign that even cleared level 10 and I hit all the top ranked ones at some point.

I'd be surprised if anyone could beat Path of Evil at less than level 13 without cheating. Someone told me they reached level 23. Level 18 or so would be typical.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Last of the Danaan hits level 12, and playing the sequel gets you to level16, at least. I like to start at the lower levels because then you get to level up more often. It's harder to keep the player motivated when the level-ups are spread out over hours of mook-grinding. I try to get the new character up to level 3 before any real fighting begins, though: It's no fun getting pwned by a rat because of a single bad die roll that you had to wait 6 seconds for.

[Dann-J]

I prefer modules that adapt to the player's level, so that it doesn't matter what character level you start at. Encounters can easily be adapted to provide a range of creature types and CRs, so that playing with different level characters changes the nature of fights considerably.

You never know exactly what you'll get, so you can't just run through a module once, learn all the bosses' weaknesses, then breeze through the module in subsequent playings.

[Haplose]

Yeah , I also think that because few modules have the possibility to gain many levels, 7-10 is the optimal starting level. It's also when PrCs first become available. I tend to stay away from modules which are in the 1-6 range (or even worse, 1-3.. in fact I don't think I've ever played one of those).

[Morbane]

i like the low level starts - the more level-ups is the main reason - plus being successful is more strategic than strength. in any case my Ancient Memories starts at 5 -7 not sure how high it will go - i am just getting done with area design and am building the plot now: starting with history then npcs, and quests and creatures are next after seeing what any potential party build will be like at various stages of the adventure.

[C Barchuk]

DannJ wrote...

I prefer modules that adapt to the player's level, so that it doesn't matter what character level you start at. Encounters can easily be adapted to provide a range of creature types and CRs, so that playing with different level characters changes the nature of fights considerably.

You never know exactly what you'll get, so you can't just run through a module once, learn all the bosses' weaknesses, then breeze through the module in subsequent playings.

BINGO!!!! I totally agree with this. That way you basically play whatever you want which would ultimately appease everybody.

[kamal_]

You would run into the epic bandits in daedric equipment issue that plagues Elder Scroll games. It both is bad for immersion, and bad from a gameplay prospective becaue your characters never get to exercise a feeling of power. I beat Oblivion at around level 4 by taking advantage of the difficulty adjustment.

[The Fred]

I have to agree with Lugaid and Morbane. Gaining levels is fun, but having them is not so much. OK L1 characters can't do much, but I actually find epic levels more boring because I can do too many things. Also I miss the feeling of playing an actually difficult game I had in BG1. Getting to L2 was a mammoth enough effort, and you could be one-shotted by a 7XP kobold's arrow that whole time.

[kevL]

C Barchuk wrote...

BINGO!!!! I totally agree with this. That way you basically play whatever you want which would ultimately appease everybody.

i Agree too,

that's why encounter triggers were designed the way they are. Theoretically every encounter can be designed for whatever level hits them; although it takes a lot of care and would require multiple blueprints for Bosses.

I remember when a friend was trying to describe this for NwN. I was like, what?! He was like, Yeah the encounters scale their difficulty. now i figure its the way to roll ..


don't even know what's gonna pop out when testing : oh look, I got a lich, two vampires, a ghoul and a couple skeletons that time! Fun fer the whole party

.. but like Kamal's suggesting, if not done right it could go wonky.


As for leveling, i'd play a whole dungeon at the same level as long as it keeps me going. Leveling is a chore fer me. As long as it's not level 1

[The Fred]

When I played NWN1, I was too high a level because I did basically every quest in Ch1. I think the XP rate was also higher back then. As a result, random wildlife encounters consistantly threw up Dire Tigers and Super Bears.

[Dorateen]

Level-scaling doesn't work well for sandbox type adventures, where the character can go anywhere at anytime. The player ought to be able to wander into an area of higher-level foes and get in over his head. And ought to be able to go into lower level places and feel the joy of driving the enemy before them.

Harumph!

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Level-scaling also sticks you with a sort of Sisyphean existential crises--no matter how hard you try, how experienced your character becomes, the game is still just as challenging as before. You might as well throw out leveling up altogether.

For example, in LotD, the big baddies of the early game are the Goblin Lords, maybe around level 6-7. As a level 2 PC, all you can do is try to run away from them. Come level 5 or 6, maybe you can take one at a time, just as long as his buddies don't gang up on you. By the end of the module, level 10-12, you can plow right through them. It all helps you feel like your character is growing, from scurrying around the edges of battle, to holding their own in the line, to dominating the whole battlefield.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Kamal beat me to it but I'll resay it anyway

DannJ wrote...

I prefer modules that adapt to the player's level, so that it doesn't matter what character level you start at. Encounters can easily be adapted to provide a range of creature types and CRs, so that playing with different level characters changes the nature of fights considerably.

You never know exactly what you'll get, so you can't just run through a module once, learn all the bosses' weaknesses, then breeze through the module in subsequent playings.

And a finely crafted set of antagonists that would make when you dont know his level, creature type or anything else... we're making tales here, not tallying baseball stats. Further to that is the environmental dissonance of jamming monsters into an area they don't belong in. Dragon in the cellar quests?

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 24 août 2011 - 09:25 .

[The Fred]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...
Dragon in the cellar quests?

OK so that explains why there were no rats.

[Dann-J]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

Further to that is the environmental dissonance of jamming monsters into an area they don't belong in. Dragon in the cellar quests?

Obviously you can't just create a random list of beasties for each encounter - there has to be some logic. A crypt could hold a few zombies and skeletons, or some mummies and a lich, or any sort of undead in between. The obligatory cellar could be full of rats, dire rats, or fiendish dire rats (in various numbers).

In my (eternally) upcoming module I have both normal encounters, and neutral NPCs who level up to match the player. The encounters might spawn a particular type of beastie at level 2, 4, 10, 15 or 20. If you attack the neutral NPC (or say something to anger him/her), then you never know what class or level up package you might have to face.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I took that on to a certain level in Islander. Since I left it open in terms of the order of quests like in Baldurs Gate 2, I would toughen up bosses and some encounters to compensate for the rather larger difference between a level 3 and a level 2 party. But that was a small adjustment here for a minor level difference.

People can make what they want and it may or may not turn out good. But all I'm saying is force feeding the encounters over a ridiculous range of levels (as has been said, a game that adjust to ANY level) is not a magic cure, and is really would cripple the story telling ability of virtually ever campaign I played by this community.

That way you basically play whatever you want which would ultimately appease everybody.

If this were true (not that you said it , but it was said) then why isn't every game doing it and everyone appeased?

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 25 août 2011 - 04:04 .