387 réponses à ce sujet

[RagingCyclone]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I just started up another game, and I have gotten to Lothering. And already, despite numerous playthroughs of doing this, I still find it more immersive than DA2 was the whole game. Even the combat doesn't really bother me, because DAO had a toolset, and modders created plenty of mods that enhanced gameplay, fixed bugs, or improved Origins various weak points/failings.

Which of course, Origins had a number of problems and failings. But no where near the number that I personally felt DA2 had, and DA2 still has no toolset, nor is it likely to have one. If they released a toolset, I'm pretty sure that a number of my complaints with DA2 could have either resolved in a satisfactory manner, or at least minimized where it became tolerable.

Still, even a toolset could not fix the things I disliked the most in DA2 (uninteresting protagonist, underdeveloped bland NPCs, most companions being meh, disconnected and underdeveloped plot). Origins end story point might have been cliche, but everything around it, the backstory and everything going on alongside the Blight are still introguing, and the numerous different possibilities make it replayable for me again and again. Unresponsive, cumbersome combat and all. I can deal with that, because the game was less focused on combat anyway, and combat could be avoided in many interesting scenarios.

I am not missing the pointless, endless waves, parachuting backflipping ninja templars in full plate armor, the lack of a tactical camera angle, lack of skills like coersion, survival, ect, fat faced headmorphs that look plastic or deformed, lack of interesting spell combos (wasn't that impressed by nameless cross class combos that just do increased damage), and often over the top animations. Even if the combat was more fluid and responsive than Origins.

This...all of it...Couldn't have said it any better myself.

[Xilizhra]

I honestly find the number of people able to connect with a mute plank of wood to be surprising.

If I seem irritable, it's because what might have been an interesting thread has degenerated into random people posting disconnected "lolda2suxorz" anecdotes.

[csfteeeer]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I just started up another game, and I have gotten to Lothering. And already, despite numerous playthroughs of doing this, I still find it more immersive than DA2 was the whole game. Even the combat doesn't really bother me, because DAO had a toolset, and modders created plenty of mods that enhanced gameplay, fixed bugs, or improved Origins various weak points/failings.

Which of course, Origins had a number of problems and failings. But no where near the number that I personally felt DA2 had, and DA2 still has no toolset, nor is it likely to have one. If they released a toolset, I'm pretty sure that a number of my complaints with DA2 could have either resolved in a satisfactory manner, or at least minimized where it became tolerable.

Still, even a toolset could not fix the things I disliked the most in DA2 (uninteresting protagonist, underdeveloped bland NPCs, most companions being meh, disconnected and underdeveloped plot). Origins end story point might have been cliche, but everything around it, the backstory and everything going on alongside the Blight are still introguing, and the numerous different possibilities make it replayable for me again and again. Unresponsive, cumbersome combat and all. I can deal with that, because the game was less focused on combat anyway, and combat could be avoided in many interesting scenarios.

I am not missing the pointless, endless waves, parachuting backflipping ninja templars in full plate armor, the lack of a tactical camera angle, lack of skills like coersion, survival, ect, fat faced headmorphs that look plastic or deformed, lack of interesting spell combos (wasn't that impressed by nameless cross class combos that just do increased damage), and often over the top animations. Even if the combat was more fluid and responsive than Origins.

[Bullets McDeath]

I feel like such a weirdo for enjoying both games. In a way, it's nice that they are so different, it keeps things fresh and interesting (as much as I would have liked DA2 to basically just be DA:O with new content). When I get towards the end of an Origins/Awakening playthrough, I start looking forward to the slicker and glossier DA2. By the time I finish DA2, I long for the old-school tactical vibe and deeper characters (IMO! RELAX!) of Origins.

Both are great games with their own flaws. Skadi has a good point about the toolset, though. I would never have made it through Origins even once (let alone jillions of times) if it weren't for the mod that removed all those dumb power ranger auras that stacked on top of each other. There were a lot of horrible bugs and glitches and "features" in Origins that I wasn't in love with that modders were able to step in and rectify. Lack of DA2 toolset is global sadface time.

[esper]

As a person who doesn't have access to mods, I don't get why they are necessary. I liked both games, bot da2 slightly more. I can play da:o again, just not right after playing da2.

[Bullets McDeath]

esper wrote...

As a person who doesn't have access to mods, I don't get why they are necessary. I liked both games, bot da2 slightly more. I can play da:o again, just not right after playing da2.

Not to be a too big a dick, but that would be why. And they're not strictly necesarry, but if you have an issue with a game that is dreadfully annoying, you have the ability to fix it with mods. Why would you NOT want that, you know? And for me, the PAR mod was necesarry because I could not take the game seriously with everyone glowing and sparkling and on fire while they stood around talking. There are mods for DA2, but aside from the one that frees up the character creator a bit (lets you edit default!Hawke or apply the nutella smear to anyone) I haven't had any need for them. Even the Diversified Companion Amor mod. I try to stick as close to the developers' vision and fix only cosmetic annoyances or bugs. Mods are also great for bug fixes, since it takes a company forever now if a game is cross-platform. Mods fixed useless dagger rogues in DA:O long before a patch did.

[esper]

outlaworacle wrote...

esper wrote...

As a person who doesn't have access to mods, I don't get why they are necessary. I liked both games, bot da2 slightly more. I can play da:o again, just not right after playing da2.

Not to be a too big a dick, but that would be why. And they're not strictly necesarry, but if you have an issue with a game that is dreadfully annoying, you have the ability to fix it with mods. Why would you NOT want that, you know? And for me, the PAR mod was necesarry because I could not take the game seriously with everyone glowing and sparkling and on fire while they stood around talking. There are mods for DA2, but aside from the one that frees up the character creator a bit (lets you edit default!Hawke or apply the nutella smear to anyone) I haven't had any need for them. Even the Diversified Companion Amor mod. I try to stick as close to the developers' vision and fix only cosmetic annoyances or bugs. Mods are also great for bug fixes, since it takes a company forever now if a game is cross-platform. Mods fixed useless dagger rogues in DA:O long before a patch did.

Well I certainly don't say that you people shouldn't enjoy your mods, but if there is a part of a game that I find so annoing that I can't live wiht it, I properly shouldn't play the game. The rouge were useless with daggers in da:o? I never discovered that and I first patched my game with awakening because I didn't had access to the internet before that.
I can't afford to play on a computer anyway, because I have this rare computer breaking aura of doom, and yes that aura mode being active was annoying, but not gamebreaking, so glad they got rid of that in da2. 

[FieryDove]

esper wrote...

Well I certainly don't say that you people shouldn't enjoy your mods, but if there is a part of a game that I find so annoing that I can't live wiht it, I properly shouldn't play the game. The rouge were useless with daggers in da:o? I never discovered that and I first patched my game with awakening because I didn't had access to the internet before that.

There are still bugs in DAO and Awakening.

Awakening still needs a silverite mine fix and a lvl spawn fix. It won't get either. It was made clear early on no more patches due to title update limits from the consoles. I'm guessing MS since Sony doesn't seem so hard case but I could be wrong.

So I am glad mods are possible. New cosmetic stuff is great and all but bug fixes are a huge plus since many things don't get fixed ever. If people want mods on consoles they should talk to Sony and MS. Most never try or can't be bothered with that so it will never change.

[Bullets McDeath]

esper wrote...
Well I certainly don't say that you people
shouldn't enjoy your mods, but if there is a part of a game that I find
so annoing that I can't live wiht it, I properly shouldn't play the
game. The rouge were useless with daggers in da:o? I never discovered
that and I first patched my game with awakening because I didn't had
access to the internet before that.
I can't afford to play on a
computer anyway, because I have this rare computer breaking aura of
doom, and yes that aura mode being active was annoying, but not
gamebreaking, so glad they got rid of that in da2. 

As always, YMMV. The auras during talky-bits was gamebreaking for me. An example of a tiny, cosmetic thing that utterly ruined what was otherwise a wonderful game. I just couldn't take it seriously, I was actually alternating between bursting out laughing and total facepalming every time there was a dramatic cutscene after a fight. And the game as shipped had a bug with the Dex bonus for daggers, as in there was none, IIRC. So dual-wield rogues were pretty gimped. Not useless, especially if you acquired Lethality, and I managed to beat the game on Normal with a level 20 rogue before the patch and/or the hotfix. But rogues certainly moved up a weightclass once they worked properly. My second rogue run was like bread and butter.

Anyway, just wanted to give a pro-mod shotout. The toolset and modding community certainly enriched my Origins experience. And is currently the only way to have a non-bugged Vigilance sword and Sentinel armor if you have Warden's Keep installed. Hooray for community bugfixes.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 28 août 2011 - 09:01 .

[esper]

I just don't care so much for look I guess, so I there is something I don't like, I can live with it. And I never said that awakening didn't have annying bugs, but as long as I can play the game it doesn't bother me.
And I would never say that other shouldn't enjoy mods, they are just not important to me and doesn't add replay-ability.

[billy the squid]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I just started up another game, and I have gotten to Lothering. And already, despite numerous playthroughs of doing this, I still find it more immersive than DA2 was the whole game. Even the combat doesn't really bother me, because DAO had a toolset, and modders created plenty of mods that enhanced gameplay, fixed bugs, or improved Origins various weak points/failings.

Which of course, Origins had a number of problems and failings. But no where near the number that I personally felt DA2 had, and DA2 still has no toolset, nor is it likely to have one. If they released a toolset, I'm pretty sure that a number of my complaints with DA2 could have either resolved in a satisfactory manner, or at least minimized where it became tolerable.

Still, even a toolset could not fix the things I disliked the most in DA2 (uninteresting protagonist, underdeveloped bland NPCs, most companions being meh, disconnected and underdeveloped plot). Origins end story point might have been cliche, but everything around it, the backstory and everything going on alongside the Blight are still introguing, and the numerous different possibilities make it replayable for me again and again. Unresponsive, cumbersome combat and all. I can deal with that, because the game was less focused on combat anyway, and combat could be avoided in many interesting scenarios.

I am not missing the pointless, endless waves, parachuting backflipping ninja templars in full plate armor, the lack of a tactical camera angle, lack of skills like coersion, survival, ect, fat faced headmorphs that look plastic or deformed, lack of interesting spell combos (wasn't that impressed by nameless cross class combos that just do increased damage), and often over the top animations. Even if the combat was more fluid and responsive than Origins.

I greatly approve of this, bravo.

[Gotholhorakh]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I just started up another game, and I have gotten to Lothering. And already, despite numerous playthroughs of doing this, I still find it more immersive than DA2 was the whole game. Even the combat doesn't really bother me, because DAO had a toolset, and modders created plenty of mods that enhanced gameplay, fixed bugs, or improved Origins various weak points/failings.

Which of course, Origins had a number of problems and failings. But no where near the number that I personally felt DA2 had, and DA2 still has no toolset, nor is it likely to have one. If they released a toolset, I'm pretty sure that a number of my complaints with DA2 could have either resolved in a satisfactory manner, or at least minimized where it became tolerable.

Still, even a toolset could not fix the things I disliked the most in DA2 (uninteresting protagonist, underdeveloped bland NPCs, most companions being meh, disconnected and underdeveloped plot). Origins end story point might have been cliche, but everything around it, the backstory and everything going on alongside the Blight are still introguing, and the numerous different possibilities make it replayable for me again and again. Unresponsive, cumbersome combat and all. I can deal with that, because the game was less focused on combat anyway, and combat could be avoided in many interesting scenarios.

I am not missing the pointless, endless waves, parachuting backflipping ninja templars in full plate armor, the lack of a tactical camera angle, lack of skills like coersion, survival, ect, fat faced headmorphs that look plastic or deformed, lack of interesting spell combos (wasn't that impressed by nameless cross class combos that just do increased damage), and often over the top animations. Even if the combat was more fluid and responsive than Origins.

Strongly agree.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I guess there's only one thing left to do then..

[Elhanan]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I just started up another game, and I have gotten to Lothering. And already, despite numerous playthroughs of doing this, I still find it more immersive than DA2 was the whole game. Even the combat doesn't really bother me, because DAO had a toolset, and modders created plenty of mods that enhanced gameplay, fixed bugs, or improved Origins various weak points/failings.

Which of course, Origins had a number of problems and failings. But no where near the number that I personally felt DA2 had, and DA2 still has no toolset, nor is it likely to have one. If they released a toolset, I'm pretty sure that a number of my complaints with DA2 could have either resolved in a satisfactory manner, or at least minimized where it became tolerable.

FWIW - I agree that I generally found DAO to be more immersive, and open for replay. However, I also hold that having multiple origins may have something to do with the latter by the sheer increase of possible options.

Still, even a toolset could not fix the things I disliked the most in DA2 (uninteresting protagonist, underdeveloped bland NPCs, most companions being meh, disconnected and underdeveloped plot). Origins end story point might have been cliche, but everything around it, the backstory and everything going on alongside the Blight are still introguing, and the numerous different possibilities make it replayable for me again and again. Unresponsive, cumbersome combat and all. I can deal with that, because the game was less focused on combat anyway, and combat could be avoided in many interesting scenarios.

I am not missing the pointless, endless waves, parachuting backflipping ninja templars in full plate armor, the lack of a tactical camera angle, lack of skills like coersion, survival, ect, fat faced headmorphs that look plastic or deformed, lack of interesting spell combos (wasn't that impressed by nameless cross class combos that just do increased damage), and often over the top animations. Even if the combat was more fluid and responsive than Origins.

Strongly disagree.

I quite like Hawke, and am still exploring dialogue choices. However, lines like "What's a Meckel?" still grants me a smile every time, so some writing may still be missed by choosing this as the default. NPC's seem quite well done; esp am captivated by Aveline, as her consolation chat to a grieving Hawke and frequent banter with Isa make for some memorable time spent in sessions. While I cannot quite explain Orsino, I have quite enjoyed the majority of story connections and development.

My opinion of course; just seeing it vastly different than others.

The waves I personally find challenging, and sometimes more fun than the End Boss, though I hope for future evolution in both. I do not mind watching fully plated Templars doing flips any more than watching other fantasy charcters in action. Why this is often singled out for ridicule rather escapes me, as we have magic as an explanation for much. Tactical camera is fine for me in the majority of areas besides corners and stairs. Skills are often linked to Attributes or dialogue choices, though not all. And the last patch seemed to correct for the exploding corpses being the norm.

Am good with both, and am looking forward to seeing the DA3 casserole of both inclusions ahead.

Modifié par Elhanan, 29 août 2011 - 12:35 .

[Reno_Tarshil]

Well even though I said I couldn't play DA:O in my original post, i've decided to give it another whirl and see if I can complete a Full Playthrough from Origins to WH. Maybe some appearance mods will help with this.

[Elhanan]

Reno_Tarshil wrote...

Well even though I said I couldn't play DA:O in my original post, i've decided to give it another whirl and see if I can complete a Full Playthrough from Origins to WH. Maybe some appearance mods will help with this.

I can recommend aiming for certain story points you wish to see and enjoy in DA2; possibly beyond. I still get a kick of hearing of my past exploits, and how the game can affect change in future sessions. No right way I guess, but I like using class decisions to influence the same class (ie; my Mage Warden to forge a path for a Mage Champion).To hear how a Mage Warden saved Ferelden from the Blight as a debated point when siding with the Templars in Kirkwall is quite pleasing.

[Dariuszp]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I just started up another game, and I have gotten to Lothering. And already, despite numerous playthroughs of doing this, I still find it more immersive than DA2 was the whole game. Even the combat doesn't really bother me, because DAO had a toolset, and modders created plenty of mods that enhanced gameplay, fixed bugs, or improved Origins various weak points/failings.

Which of course, Origins had a number of problems and failings. But no where near the number that I personally felt DA2 had, and DA2 still has no toolset, nor is it likely to have one. If they released a toolset, I'm pretty sure that a number of my complaints with DA2 could have either resolved in a satisfactory manner, or at least minimized where it became tolerable.

Still, even a toolset could not fix the things I disliked the most in DA2 (uninteresting protagonist, underdeveloped bland NPCs, most companions being meh, disconnected and underdeveloped plot). Origins end story point might have been cliche, but everything around it, the backstory and everything going on alongside the Blight are still introguing, and the numerous different possibilities make it replayable for me again and again. Unresponsive, cumbersome combat and all. I can deal with that, because the game was less focused on combat anyway, and combat could be avoided in many interesting scenarios.

I am not missing the pointless, endless waves, parachuting backflipping ninja templars in full plate armor, the lack of a tactical camera angle, lack of skills like coersion, survival, ect, fat faced headmorphs that look plastic or deformed, lack of interesting spell combos (wasn't that impressed by nameless cross class combos that just do increased damage), and often over the top animations. Even if the combat was more fluid and responsive than Origins.

Beer to that. I aprove this message

[Killer3000ad]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I just started up another game, and I have gotten to Lothering. And already, despite numerous playthroughs of doing this, I still find it more immersive than DA2 was the whole game. Even the combat doesn't really bother me, because DAO had a toolset, and modders created plenty of mods that enhanced gameplay, fixed bugs, or improved Origins various weak points/failings.

Which of course, Origins had a number of problems and failings. But no where near the number that I personally felt DA2 had, and DA2 still has no toolset, nor is it likely to have one. If they released a toolset, I'm pretty sure that a number of my complaints with DA2 could have either resolved in a satisfactory manner, or at least minimized where it became tolerable.

Still, even a toolset could not fix the things I disliked the most in DA2 (uninteresting protagonist, underdeveloped bland NPCs, most companions being meh, disconnected and underdeveloped plot). Origins end story point might have been cliche, but everything around it, the backstory and everything going on alongside the Blight are still introguing, and the numerous different possibilities make it replayable for me again and again. Unresponsive, cumbersome combat and all. I can deal with that, because the game was less focused on combat anyway, and combat could be avoided in many interesting scenarios.

I am not missing the pointless, endless waves, parachuting backflipping ninja templars in full plate armor, the lack of a tactical camera angle, lack of skills like coersion, survival, ect, fat faced headmorphs that look plastic or deformed, lack of interesting spell combos (wasn't that impressed by nameless cross class combos that just do increased damage), and often over the top animations. Even if the combat was more fluid and responsive than Origins.

I am Commander Shepard and this is my favourite post in the thread.

Xilizhra wrote...

I honestly find the number of people able to connect with a mute plank of wood to be surprising.

If I seem irritable, it's because what might have been an interesting thread has degenerated into random people posting disconnected "lolda2suxorz" anecdotes.

You realize of course, up until the 2000s, the vast majority of RPG games were not voiced? Final Fantasy only started using fully voiced characters in FF10. I guess you'd be suprised to know that the best selling game in the series was FF7. Also the game graphics back then weren't good enough to show facial animations so they were all pretty wooden for the most part, yet Aerith's death in FF7 was still the biggest "NOOOOOOO!!" moment in all the FF games.

Also the people around you in DA:O reacted to your actions and dialogue choice so I didn't need to hear my character's voice or see his/her facial emotions to realize that I just dun goofed with a particular choice.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 29 août 2011 - 04:03 .

[Cruehitman]

I guess i am one of the select few (maybe even the only one) that really liked the combat in DA:O. It was ok in DA2, but felt too much like an arcade game. People may say it was "slow" in the first game, but after playing it three times myself and watching my wife play it once, it looked more like REAL fighting. For instance... watching Sten or Oghren have to really rear back to swing the giant two handed swords seemed, while at the same time watching Leliana stab quickly with daggers seemed very realistic. The weapons and shields actually seemed to have real weight to them. I don't know... could just be me... but I liked the more realistic approach over the arcade hack-em-up it became.

And had NO problem whatsoever going back to play DA:O after DA2... in fact, it made me love the first one even more and REALLY made DA2's glaring problems (too many to name here) obvious. My wife just finished her first playthrough of DA:O as well, and DA:A. I asked her if she wanted to jump into DA2. She told me "nope" and IMMEDIATELY jumped back into starting a second playthrough of DA:O. It's so funny too, because she is NOT a gamer by any means... outside of some of the singing/dancing style games, she doesn't play any games. Yet she was so drawn into the DA:O world, that she had no problem sinking 75 hours into it and another 20 in the expansion. After she finishes her second playthrough, I will be making my fourth go through, and can't wait. I went ahead and traded in DA2.

Modifié par Cruehitman, 29 août 2011 - 04:04 .

[willholt]

Cruehitman wrote...

I guess i am one of the select few (maybe even the only one) that really liked the combat in DA:O. It was ok in DA2, but felt too much like an arcade game. People may say it was "slow" in the first game, but after playing it three times myself and watching my wife play it once, it looked more like REAL fighting. For instance... watching Sten or Oghren have to really rear back to swing the giant two handed swords seemed, while at the same time watching Leliana stab quickly with daggers seemed very realistic. The weapons and shields actually seemed to have real weight to them. I don't know... could just be me... but I liked the more realistic approach over the arcade hack-em-up it became.

You are not the only one. I feel exactly the same.

Combat in DA2 was (to use your words) and arcade hack-em-up.

[erynnar]

Killer3000ad wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I just started up another game, and I have gotten to Lothering. And already, despite numerous playthroughs of doing this, I still find it more immersive than DA2 was the whole game. Even the combat doesn't really bother me, because DAO had a toolset, and modders created plenty of mods that enhanced gameplay, fixed bugs, or improved Origins various weak points/failings.

Which of course, Origins had a number of problems and failings. But no where near the number that I personally felt DA2 had, and DA2 still has no toolset, nor is it likely to have one. If they released a toolset, I'm pretty sure that a number of my complaints with DA2 could have either resolved in a satisfactory manner, or at least minimized where it became tolerable.

Still, even a toolset could not fix the things I disliked the most in DA2 (uninteresting protagonist, underdeveloped bland NPCs, most companions being meh, disconnected and underdeveloped plot). Origins end story point might have been cliche, but everything around it, the backstory and everything going on alongside the Blight are still introguing, and the numerous different possibilities make it replayable for me again and again. Unresponsive, cumbersome combat and all. I can deal with that, because the game was less focused on combat anyway, and combat could be avoided in many interesting scenarios.

I am not missing the pointless, endless waves, parachuting backflipping ninja templars in full plate armor, the lack of a tactical camera angle, lack of skills like coersion, survival, ect, fat faced headmorphs that look plastic or deformed, lack of interesting spell combos (wasn't that impressed by nameless cross class combos that just do increased damage), and often over the top animations. Even if the combat was more fluid and responsive than Origins.

I am Commander Shepard and this is my favourite post in the thread.

Xilizhra wrote...

I honestly find the number of people able to connect with a mute plank of wood to be surprising.

If I seem irritable, it's because what might have been an interesting thread has degenerated into random people posting disconnected "lolda2suxorz" anecdotes.

You realize of course, up until the 2000s, the vast majority of RPG games were not voiced? Final Fantasy only started using fully voiced characters in FF10. I guess you'd be suprised to know that the best selling game in the series was FF7. Also the game graphics back then weren't good enough to show facial animations so they were all pretty wooden for the most part, yet Aerith's death in FF7 was still the biggest "NOOOOOOO!!" moment in all the FF games.

Also the people around you in DA:O reacted to your actions and dialogue choice so I didn't need to hear my character's voice or see his/her facial emotions to realize that I just dun goofed with a particular choice.

This^ my hats off to Skadi and Killer. Well said K about the non-voiced protag. I don't see why a voiced one is so damn important, but I realize because it's a preference and not a mark of one way being more advanced or better than the other.

I also found Hawke to be one of the most boring and annoying characters I have ever played. Hell, even her companions liked the dog better, and I don't blame them.

And no, DAO's replayability factor didn't have to do with the mulitiple origins, I just now (that I have my own account) started trying all the origins. It was the story, the details, the companions, the way the game plays. Origins stories were just icing on the cake.

@Cruelhitman, nope you aren't the only one sweetie. DA2 is just a wee too fast, and the waves and parachuting etc were just too tedious (though Legacy helped in that regard).

[Elhanan]

Sorry, but returning to DAO and hearing loud silence while watching my brother test drive the game was somewhat painful. The full VO of the future projects has me quite intrigued; just hope that Bioware drops the paraphrasing, and places either Icon or partial exact replies on the wheel.

"What's a Meckel?"

Modifié par Elhanan, 29 août 2011 - 05:25 .

[Complistic]

Redcoat wrote...

I've put 673 hours into DA:O, according to Steam. The game has this certain, ineffable quality that lends itself to replayability. The game's dialogue system and silent protagonist, where I can pick exactly what I want to say and picture the exact tone the line is delivered with, gives me the feeling that I can play as far greater variety of characters than what DA2 allows. I've played a virtuous do-gooder, a bloodthirsty sociopath who kills everything that looks at her the wrong way, and everything in between. The six different origins coloured my character's background; my City Elves and Casteless Dwarves tended to be violent and thuggish, while my Human and Dwarf Nobles tended to be...well...noble. I know that DA:O gets criticised for the lack of impact that the choices have on the story as a whole, but at least it gives you choices and acknowledges them, which allows you to develop your character through those choices. My Castleless Dwarf wouldn't blink at defiling Andraste's ashes; what's a figure of human religion to him? My Dwarf Noble pretended to support Bhelen, the one who he betrayed him, until he gave the crown to Harrowmont, double-crossing Bhelen for no reason other than pure spite. My Dalish elf hated humans and made very different choices when the situation involved humans instead of elves.

Compare this to DA2. We got one protagonist, with one background (that's never developed), with one family (that also receives next to no development). The game's dialogue system actively thwarts any attempt to roleplay as the character I wish; what my character says is a major component of his or her personality, and since the paraphrase system hides the spoken dialogue from me, I can never establish a personality that will not be contradicted by the spoken line. The voiced protagonist means that Hawke will always sound the same across every play-through. Unlike DA:O, I cannot play as a character I want to play as, but merely pick from three different "Flavours of Hawke."

And Hawke is such a complete waste as a character. He's never grounded in the story or the world of Kirkwall, he just...exists. He doesn't affect the world around him, his interactions with the people around him are terse and unsatisfying. None of his choices, in the rare event that he is even offered them, change anything or allow for any development of his character. And worst of all, (without getting into spoiler territory)  he fails at everything he sets out to do; many bad things happen to him, and all of them are completely unavoidable. And that utterly kills the game's replay value; why would to play the game again when I know the outcome will be identical (failure, of course) every time?

Solid post.

[rak72]

^^ What Redcoat said

Good post

[Elhanan]

Complistic wrote...

Solid post.

Perhaps if one has that POV; other opinions may vary. As I have 300+ hrs in replay value thus far, guess that at least one exception exists for this observation, and kinda believe I ain't the only one.