387 réponses à ce sujet

[Nurot]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Satyricon331 wrote...

Usually I either agree with you or don't have an opinion, so it's surprising when I find a post of yours I disagree with strongly.  I don't see a need to have game mechanics police other players since it's not an MMO, and I'm curious why you feel that way.

Having health regenerate at different rates creates perverse gameplay incentives.

I'm certainly the last person to say you shouldn't game the system if the system is gameable, but I don't see any benefit to having health regenerate at different rates in and out of combat.  Why not just have health regenerate at a constant rate?  That would make more sense within the setting.

At the very least, I'd like some sort of explanation (that actually fits) as to why health regeneration suddenly slows when Hawke enters the metaphysical state of combat.

My explanation is that time is slowed down (in the storytelling, not in the game world) in combat compared to the rest of the time. Like the way time moves faster when you travel between different areas.

This explanation works for me, at least .

[Satyricon331]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Having health regenerate at different rates creates perverse gameplay incentives.

I'm certainly the last person to say you shouldn't game the system if the system is gameable, but I don't see any benefit to having health regenerate at different rates in and out of combat.  Why not just have health regenerate at a constant rate?  That would make more sense within the setting.

At the very least, I'd like some sort of explanation (that actually fits) as to why health regeneration suddenly slows when Hawke enters the metaphysical state of combat.

Personally, like Nurot, I think it (ironically) increases gameplay-story integration.  After battle, you loot your enemies' equipment or you walk around some more or whatever, but the game (and presumably a storyteller) don't spend much time detailing the process.  Having your regeneration reflect how the story relays each moment in a battle in detail (the way a novelization would) and how it passes over many moments during looting or walking makes sense to me.  Otherwise the game would present a weird two-track time field after battle (constant rate for health regen, hyperfast for looting), given that games are always going to gloss over the tedium involved in looting equipment from corpses.

[Sylvius the Mad]

alex90c wrote...

It's just story/gameplay segregation again.

There should be no such segregation.  The ruleset informs both the combat and the non-combat roleplaying.

For example, if the combat rulset tells me that a dagger is a weak and ineffective weapon, but cutscenes tell me that it can easily score instant kills, which is true in the world?  If an NPC threatens my PC with a dagger, is that a laughable gesture, or does it carry a credible risk of death?

Without knowing these things, we can't make decisions for our characters without simply guessing.  Our characters won't be able to have a coherent world view if the world they experience is not itself coherent.

[devin the deviant]

Aeowyn wrote...

Ah, well then I applaud you for not being lazy like me. Although for me the Deep Roads is a tad worse. An outpost is sorely needed somewhere down there. Darkspawn merchant anyone?

you get ruck.

i still have to finish da2.  then i will play part 2 as a male and then figure out if i will want to do any of that again, or play something else, maybe pick up skyrim or mass effect 3 or the witcher 2(i have an xbox, not a gaming PC).

the circle tower was painful in the fade. 

[Jestina]

I'm not sure what they were thinking when they came up with all the ugly graphics changes that were made on DA2. The elves and darkspawn look fugly, there's little detail even though they had just one city to work with in DA2. Hair is cruddy, umm...the list goes on. They took several steps back in that area. The story is aimless and everything just feels rushed.

I'm struggling to get through the drudgery of DA2 and might make it through the game once.

[Furtled]

Reno_Tarshil wrote...
I just can't. I've been spoiled by the stylish fight gameplay and voiced protagonist, that I can't go back and playthrough Origins. I tried but got quickly bored by how slow everything suddenly felt.

Don't get me wrong I played the hell out of Origins before DA2, but now it just seems so slow moving and not engaging.

Has anyone felt this way?

I won't argue that the combat's slower in DA:O but I prefer the visual style/atmosphere of Origins and the little things like battle sounds (sword hitting sword), finishing moves and blocks. Likely more down to personal preferance then anything else. DA2 combat's fun, but it doesn't have enough heart for me.

[dielveio]

Furtled wrote...

I won't argue that the combat's slower in DA:O but I prefer the visual style/atmosphere of Origins and the little things like battle sounds (sword hitting sword), finishing moves and blocks. Likely more down to personal preferance then anything else. DA2 combat's fun, but it doesn't have enough heart for me.

I really miss these little things too!

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Aeowyn wrote...

Ah, well then I applaud you for not being lazy like me. Although for me the Deep Roads is a tad worse. An outpost is sorely needed somewhere down there. Darkspawn merchant anyone?

You didn't meet Ruck?

Back on topic, I'm the opposite of the OP as well. I played DA2 once, went back to Origins, had no problem playing through it a couple of times. Then went back to DA2, played a second toon, S&B warrior. Found it really boring.

I eventually played a third toon as a mage. Mages are more fun than Origins in combat, but that doesnt matter to me at all. I like the story and atmosphere in DAO better.. Far far better.

[RPGmom28]

I play both over and over. The best way to mix it up for me is to cycle classes and let the look of my character vary. It's like visiting old friends when I switch back.

Another way to keep things fresh is to turn off all distractions like TV or radio in the background, turn off subtitles, and don't skip any dialogue. Really be into the moment. Make crazy decisions you've never made before.

[R0vena]

I can't say I have the same problem as OP. I loved DA:O, enjoyed playing DA2 very much, and when I returned to DA:O I enjoyed it as much as before. I admit, my first thought was "OMG, it is slow!" - but it was over in like ten minutes. I got used to the pace of DA:O again and everything went perfect after that. Actually, the same thing happened with DA2, when I first though "Combat is too fast, I don't have time even to see anything, much less enjoy it!" But twenty minutes later I got used to it.

[Teddie Sage]

I just don't understand how people can replay a game this many times. Really. I lost interest of DAO after one playthrough and a half and got a pretty good ending on my first run. After that, I realized that all the origins led to the same story, so it was pointless to replay the game for me. I did have two playthroughs of DA2, though. I enjoyed the game style way more.

[MEBengal2008]

Both games have good points and bad points. They tried to fix the bad points with the good points in DA2, but they lost the stuff that made DAO so great in the process. If Bioware can find a happy medium between the two games it will be a sure winner. I prefer DAO over DA2 because of the story and NPC / PC character interactions.

Besides how they modified character interaction in DA2, I also dislike how the equipment worked. DA2 equipment just made no sense. In DAO if I acquired the Juggarnaut Armor I know it is one of the best armors in the game and therefore may or may not need another set later on for my warrior, but in DA2, other than the champion armor, I was constantly wondering should I change this for that, etc... It just made no sense. I believe DAO got the equipment and junk stuff done better. I mean some of the junk had a small story to it. I thought that was cool, but DA2 it was just junk and I could sell it for gold. Why even bother putting junk in the game in the first place, just give me more gold than instead.

My personal favorite thing about both game is how they are tied together. In DAO you see Varick in the proving arena and you also have your companions who later run into Hawke. I find the game series to be good but if they produce another DA2 style game without improve it than I would consider the DA series a flop simply because DA2 is not as in depth as DAO, but who knows what DA3 wll offer at this time.
I'm just happy I have some good games to play thanks to Bioware. Now I am off got to go kill me some Dark Spawn.

Modifié par MEBengal2008, 27 août 2011 - 02:04 .

[ecbricco]

nope never had that problem always enjoyed origins more then da2 maybe cause i have a ton of mods on origins maybe not just always had more fun with origins not to say da2 is bad in any just not as fun for me

[MEBengal2008]

Teddie Sage wrote...

I just don't understand how people can replay a game this many times. Really. I lost interest of DAO after one playthrough and a half and got a pretty good ending on my first run. After that, I realized that all the origins led to the same story, so it was pointless to replay the game for me. I did have two playthroughs of DA2, though. I enjoyed the game style way more.

You are seriously missing out on a great game. You have six origins and each can be played as a male or female and with the mage you can also add elf to that mix. Playing different race and gender provides you different options in later part of the game. Being able to make decisions that have an impact to the game world is quite interesting.

I know in DA2 your actions you see sooner than later and that is cool and all but it just didn't feel to have the same type of depth that you do with DAO. Also, DAO is one - two year before it is all said and done with 50+ hours of gaming. DA2 I did it in under 40 and felt robbed. Even with Legacy out I still cannot pick up my joypad to play it once again.

[Yrkoon]

devin the deviant wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Ah, well then I applaud you for not being lazy like me. Although for me the Deep Roads is a tad worse. An outpost is sorely needed somewhere down there. Darkspawn merchant anyone?

you get ruck.

You also get the travel map option after Caradin's Cross, and then again after Ortan Thaig.  And while I typically like to do the whole thing straight through, the game gives you the option to do just one of the maps, then go back to town and  do other things in between....  even leave town and do another quests, thus breaking up the deep roads into 3  seperate adventures if you wish.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 août 2011 - 02:34 .

[Yrkoon]

Teddie Sage wrote...

I just don't understand how people can replay a game this many times.

It's not just any Game.  It's DA:O.  It lends itself to replays.  6 diverse Origins and  3 diverse classes, each  with their own set of specializations.   But nevermind that.   I've replayed the game for no reason but to experience the different weapon combo styles.  (dual-wielding two daggers through the game  gives you  significanly different gameplay  than dual-wielding a Dagger and an axe... or two axes, or 2 swords, or an axe and a sword, or 2 maces, or a dagger and a mace  etc..

There's also the story-line stuff.  I've done one playthrough as a complete ******.  (killing Brother Genetivi, defiling the ashes, killing off the Dalish, letting Connor die. etc.)  And again... the game just *feels* different/fresh when you do that stuff for a change.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 août 2011 - 02:36 .

[Arthur Cousland]

You can return to Orzammar in between sections of the deep roads to go back and sell. That would help me afford items like the lifegiver ring and the rose's thorn without having to wait until I was done with the Deep Roads.

When you're on the Deep Roads map, simply pick Orzammar instead of the next section of the map. Going back to Orzammar to sell also helps break up the monotony of lengthy dungeon after lengthy dungeon.

[RPGmom28]

Yes, Arthur, and I find it funny how Oghren gripes if you do that. It's worth it, though.

[Davillo]

I love origins... I'll replay the game any week with a 2 sword rogue, a warrior --dual wield or 2hander,---or my favorite human mage arcane warrior, but atm I have so many different play-through saves to import to Dragon Ag2 I do no think I will be able to replay DA2 for all of them. I already passed Da2 like 9 times and I don't think that's allot. I don't know about yall but I'm a type a dude that's gotta get every quest done. Anyway getting of the topic I want to address as fan of DA games what I liked in DA2 never done this before.

I kind of liked the new combat system it was I got to say more solid than DA.O but I think that it's pushed a little to far especially with the rogues. I like the new sword/shield game play even though it's not ever my main spec it is allot better than sword n shield experience than from I saw in other games, every single time I play a game and there is a warrior with sword and sheild it feel just like in origins... Even though I have no problem with that the new style is perfect if not revolutionary for this spec for all other games. I like how I kinda fell how every single sword hit or dagger slash hit the enemies how the weapons contact the enemy I think that it is very sold but it still could be improved. Overall I feel that the classes should hit harder because slashing at a guy in light leather armor 28+ times with a huge 2 hander is not right.

Mage class was moved in a very cool direction I also feel that Bioware has set a standard in portraying a mage in games first with origins and now in this new game we talkin bout. Even though I miss having a mage in a bad ass black armor a huge golden staff and an aura of magical might swirling around him { Magic Might } one of my favorite spells lol, the presentation of mage class mechanic was very refreshing from what I experienced before. There is still allot of room for improvement though so I hope the next game we gonna get a mage class that is perfect.

Rogues I think that they are done very well except that jumpinward g part can be toned down a little, perfectly in my oppinion a rogue would make like a dash or rush when more than like 12 feet from the enemy making it look as if there like jumping straight toward the enemy I can't explain it lol.

Overall I think that the new talent trees are cool but the abilities are to few, there is to few talents of whatever you call it like back in origins I should be able to have a warrior dual wielder that can switch to a bow but it would not be the primary weapon. Or what ever you know make it so that I can have a rogue that can do whatever I please swords in hand big ass bow on back you know what I'm saying. I really feel that with the new cool combat if they could make it like before and be able to customize you companions down to the socks they wearing is gonna be cool. Oh and for gods sake give us some huge setting wherever the hell it is in Theda's make it big, not in 1 freaking city state but all over the country and Thedas even I think that IN DA3 the players journey should embark allot more than just one country. Like I said many times before if they would fuze DA2 with DAO that would be a perfect game, make it huge basically they would take the new game play from DA2 and make it as deep as Origins was I hope that makes sense.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Teddie Sage wrote...

I just don't understand how people can replay a game this many times. Really. I lost interest of DAO after one playthrough and a half and got a pretty good ending on my first run. After that, I realized that all the origins led to the same story, so it was pointless to replay the game for me.

If this is true, it's because you're playing the game to experience the story.  If the story is the thing you get out the game, then obviously you're not going to enjoy replaying it unless the story is markedly different (or you really liked the story, I suppose).

But for some of us, the story written by the developers is just a backdrop to the core gameplay, and that core gameplay is roleplaying.  So, we can play through DAO again and again, and as long as we design a significantly different character we'll get a significantly different game experience, even with the same basic plot and the same basic combat encounters and the same basic tactics.  Because it's the PC's decisions that matter to us, and those can be different every time we play.

But DA2 isn't like that.  Because DA2 doesn't really let me make Hawke's decisions (the dialogue system seems to go out of its way to prevent it), DA2 isn't a game I ever expect to replay.

[Gibb_Shepard]

After 2 full enjoyable playtrhoughs of DA2, i've gone back to replay DAO as a human noble.

Honestly, DAO is just so much better. I like DA2, but the scope, atmosphere, soundtrack and replayability is not there. In DA2 Fenris is always the magic tank with a long sword, Anders is always a healer and Isabella is always the useless rogue with no bow. Their roles are always the same, thats not so in DAO.

I could go on for a bit, but this isn't a DA2 DAO comparison thread. To answer your question; no, i felt tingly going back to DAO. IMO, the only thing the game needs is a voiced PC, but i know that in itself is a controversial topic...

[Sylvius the Mad]

greengoron89 wrote...

I'm surprised so many people dislike the Deep Roads. It's my favorite part of the entire game - especially the Dead Trenches (which is also the creepiest, by far).

In fact, the whole Paragon of Her Kind quest is just brilliant. That quest alone makes the game worth replaying, IMO.

I like the Deep Roads, but I think they should have been longer.  I don't think they felt expansive enough.

I think bigger levels with the content more spread-out across them would have improved the Deep Roads.  That also would have given us more of that terrific atmospheric walking through long tunnels wondering what was going to happen next.

I think the Deep Roads should have been longer.  If they had, they would probably be my favourite part of the game, too (as it is, my favourite part of the game is the Fade).

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Sylvius
An unpopular opinion, but I actually agree. I did not feel the deep roads gave enough ambiance and was not expansive enough to make us feel that we were traveling the distance we were shown by the red blood dots on the map.

It felt too much like a dungeon crawl imo. I would have loved parts where you just walk and see old Dwarven ruins (what I love about the deep roads). Heck, maybe even let us set up camp, to show that you are actually traveling, though I am guessing Sylvius would not like it if it was done in a cutscene (I wouldn't mind).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 août 2011 - 06:42 .

[FieryDove]

I loved DAO deep roads. I see many complaints about no place to sell/buy stuff. I guess people never talked to Ruck after he ran away or tried to leave. You can leave after each thaig or half a thaig if its too much and go do something else or buy/sell/camp except for the last thaig.

Modifié par FieryDove, 27 août 2011 - 06:46 .