202 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

http://www.escapistm...g-Less-Relevant

"It's funny because the RPG in the context of the current world is - well, it's not specifically irrelevant, but it's becoming less relevant in and of itself," he continued. "It's more a function of, 'Hey, this game has a great story.' For us, [it's] having that emotion but also having other great features like combat and persistence of character progression and stuff."

Modifié par mrcrusty, 22 août 2011 - 11:30 .

[Il Divo]

There was a thread on the Mass Effect boards. It was only a matter of time before it made its way around.

Modifié par Il Divo, 22 août 2011 - 11:31 .

[Tommy6860]

And if they are shooting for less relevance and more action, then they'll get the players they want for this new moprh they envision for RPGs, or they won't. I certainly will be moving on if this is the direction they want to go. Unfortunately, with this thinking, metamorphosis doesn't seem to be producing the butterfly.

[Chromie]

I think they are trying to lose their fans.

[Harid]

Bioware reminds me of that nerdy kid in high school that like got his car early, gets picked up by some slightly more popular kids, and then proceeds to **** on his old friends with this nonsense of theirs.

I don't know what they base their logic on, given how a piece of crap like FFXIII outsold Mass Effect 2 by something like 1.5:1, but whatever.

I expect them to backpedal and bow and scrape to the old fans when DA3 comes out, though.

And I expect gamers, especially around here, to take it laying down.

[billy the squid]

I like this bit.

"The genres are blending right now, you're getting lots and lots of progression and RPG elements in shooters - online persistence and so on."

Mmm. But, i still play a shooter for the satisfaction I get when riddling the opposing team with bullets. Add customisation etc, and the game that you have is still quite clearly a shooter, anything else is just gravy.

Modifié par billy the squid, 23 août 2011 - 12:31 .

[mesmerizedish]

I think you guys are misunderstanding what he's saying.

I haven't read the actual review, but the comment suggests that while he thinks the RPG is becoming less relevant to the gaming community, he wants BioWare to hold true to those more "old-school" aspects, while still moving forward. See this part? :

"but also having other great features like combat and persistence of character progression and stuff."

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Ringo12 wrote...

I think they are trying to lose their fans.

I don't think so.

I think it's buttering up expectations for future games. It's pretty much a "we won't go back to making RPGs like we use to" type interview where he tries to justify the direction where they're going in.

I don't mind. I'll actually be grateful when they can just come outright and say they don't want to make RPGs anymore, but interactive narratives stacked with combat instead. Maybe then we can get to acknowledging that an RPG consists of a variety of mechanics and gameplay elements and not "a story with choices" or that stuffing a game full of cinematics makes it a better RPG.

Who knows, it'd probably result in better games too as they wouldn't have to keep one eye on their newer market while keeping the other eye on their old one.

[billy the squid]

Harid wrote...
...

And I expect gamers, especially around here, to take it laying down.

Oh, I don't know. After the little debacle on DA2, there is still a fair bit of ill feeling on that front.

[Harid]

billy the squid wrote...

Harid wrote...
...

And I expect gamers, especially around here, to take it laying down.

Oh, I don't know. After the little debacle on DA2, there is still a fair bit of ill feeling on that front.

Never heard of the Sonic Cycle?  Gamers are ****es when it comes to telling devs they deserve more.

[billy the squid]

Harid wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Harid wrote...
...

And I expect gamers, especially around here, to take it laying down.

Oh, I don't know. After the little debacle on DA2, there is still a fair bit of ill feeling on that front.

Never heard of the Sonic Cycle?  Gamers are ****es when it comes to telling devs they deserve more.

Telling devs they desrve more can work to a limited extent, but only if the developer isn't just going to ignore it and aim for a new market entirely. Personally I just walk away. I don't owe a developer any loyalty and someone else inevitably steps in to fill the gap. The Witcher 2 and potentially Deus Ex Human Revolution seem to have done so.

Whilst I would be sad to see the IP devolve into a bastardised mess, mainly because of the lore and characters, i see no point in paying money, simply because its a Bioware game, or a game of anyother developer for that matter.

[Tommy6860]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I think you guys are misunderstanding what he's saying.

I haven't read the actual review, but the comment suggests that while he thinks the RPG is becoming less relevant to the gaming community, he wants BioWare to hold true to those more "old-school" aspects, while still moving forward. See this part? :

"but also having other great features like combat and persistence of character progression and stuff."

But you're just taking this bit cmpletely out of context to the article. I don't get that from reading it. Add this bit along what with you quoted, "RPGs are and always have
been our bread and butter, our heart is there, but at the same time I
think - well, we had the RPG panel breakfast at GDC yesterday - and what
was interesting about that was that we had the conversation about 'what
is an RPG,' and it's a blend," he told VG247.
"The genres are blending right now, you're getting lots and lots of
progression and RPG elements in shooters - online persistence and so
on."

So, maybe MMO RPG Shooters are the thing <_<

[Tommy6860]

mrcrusty wrote...

Who knows, it'd probably result in better games too as they wouldn't have to keep one eye on their newer market while keeping the other eye on their old one.

This really bothers me to be honest. I woudn't want that even if that were the declared direction they would take .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Tommy6860 wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Who knows, it'd probably result in better games too as they wouldn't have to keep one eye on their newer market while keeping the other eye on their old one.

This really bothers me to be honest. I woudn't want that even if that were the declared direction they would take .

While of course I'd rather BioWare move towards more or better RPG elements - a stronger, specific dialog system, much more transparent and important statistics, a powerful ruleset that dictates every aspect of PC and NPC makeup, a variety of reputation systems both affecting NPC interactions and character sheets, a better character system, more meaningful choices and less linearity, multiple solutions to open ended quests, more freedom and variety in character builds and personalities, more grounded and less abstracted combat that's tactically satisfying through enemy variety and encounter design, etc etc, it seems like they don't want to move in that direction.

Cinematic storytelling is the direction they want to move in imo. All of the things I've mentioned is the "game" whereas BioWare only seems to care about the "story". Of course, the best games tend to integrate both into a cohesive experience, but BioWare's always struggled at that. Hopefully that is something that is worked on for future games, but it doesn't seem to really register there from what I've seen. Blood Mage in DA 2, for example.

Considering that, it's best that they don't incrementally strip out or "streamline" various elements of their games, then spend months after trying to defend and justify such decisions.

Let them make what they want to make, to hell with us "traditional" RPG fans, and let the market decide whether their direction is a good one or not.

Despite popular opinion, this is exactly what CDPR did with Witcher 2.

Then again, I guess my personal investment into BioWare RPGs is probably less than the average person here.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 23 août 2011 - 12:40 .

[element eater]

this is a sad article indeed

[Cyne]

The line about blending different genres really disturbs me. Keep them distinct! Chocolate may be more popular than strawberry icecream, but strawberry fans aren't going to suddenly love chocolate, and even chocolate fans will eventually become dismayed by the lack of choice. Bad analogy, but you get what I mean. More game categories are better for EVERYONE, and Bioware's selling out to the highest bidder instead of focusing on its original strengths.

[Lakhi]

Skyrim and the Witcher 2 say hi2u

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Tommy6860 wrote...
So, maybe MMO RPG Shooters are the thing <_<

I smell a Mass Effect spin-off game.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 23 août 2011 - 12:44 .

[Tommy6860]

mrcrusty wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Who knows, it'd probably result in better games too as they wouldn't have to keep one eye on their newer market while keeping the other eye on their old one.

This really bothers me to be honest. I woudn't want that even if that were the declared direction they would take .

While of course I'd rather BioWare move towards more or better RPG elements - a stronger, specific dialog system, much more transparent and important statistics, a powerful ruleset that dictates every aspect of PC and NPC makeup, a variety of reputation systems both affecting NPC interactions and character sheets, a better character system, more meaningful choices and less linearity, multiple solutions to open ended quests, more freedom and variety in character builds and personalities, more grounded and less abstracted combat that's tactically satisfying through enemy variety and encounter design, etc etc, it seems like they don't want to move in that direction.

Cinematic storytelling is the direction they want to move in imo. All of the things I've mentioned is the "game" whereas BioWare only seems to care about the "story". Of course, the best games tend to integrate both into a cohesive experience, but BioWare's always struggled at that. Hopefully that is something that is worked on for future games, but it doesn't seem to really register there from what I've seen. Blood Mage in DA 2, for example.

Considering that, it's best that they don't incrementally strip out or "streamline" various elements of their games, then spend months after trying to defend and justify such decisions.

Let them make what they want to make, to hell with us "traditional" RPG fans, and let the market decide whether their direction is a good one or not.

Despite popular opinion, this is exactly what CDPR did with Witcher 2.

Then again, I guess my personal investment into BioWare RPGs is probably less than the average person here.

OK, I see your point when taking into consideration "market forces", though I'd rather Bioware not abandon what has been a great gaming line-up over the years until recently, IMO. And if going by that, DA:O showed them otherwise. I really don't mind VP in a game, ME worked for me. DA2 didn't because it was near diametrically opposed in style, gameplay and RPG aspects from DA:O, whereas ME2 wasn't that far astray from what ME is.

I would say your personal investment really doesn't matter, you read and you know what has been going on and you have your taste and prefernces in what an RPG is to you. You have more of an understanding of this, despite your lack of personal Bioware gaming investment. I have played and bought every Bioware game since BG, and I liked all of them to their varying degrees and styles, except DA2, and somewhat od a dislike for ME2.

[Morroian]

Cyne wrote...

The line about blending different genres really disturbs me. Keep them distinct! Chocolate may be more popular than strawberry icecream, but strawberry fans aren't going to suddenly love chocolate, and even chocolate fans will eventually become dismayed by the lack of choice.

Role playing elements and stronger stories are improving FPSs.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I think you guys are misunderstanding what he's saying.

I haven't read the actual review, but the comment suggests that while he thinks the RPG is becoming less relevant to the gaming community, he wants BioWare to hold true to those more "old-school" aspects, while still moving forward. See this part? :

"but also having other great features like combat and persistence of character progression and stuff."

Oh yay, so you still pick a few skills. Minus actual party customization, minus choice actually mattering, mechanics being stripped away for a less tactical, flashy combat feel. Sorry Bioware, not interested, I can get that type of game from any developer at this point.

After the hot mess that is DA2, Bioware has a long way to go to actually get me to even consider preordering any of their titles again.  This whole going after the casual COD crowd who can't be bothered with deep stats, tactics, party gear customization beyond rings/amulets etc, thinking they can please two competely different segments of the spectrum and pulling in 5 million plus in sales is just a pipe dream that isn't going to happen.

The hardcore RPG'er will stick with a company, the casual crowd tends to move on to whatever the next shiny "hot game type of the moment" is.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Morroian wrote...

Cyne wrote...

The line about blending different genres really disturbs me. Keep them distinct! Chocolate may be more popular than strawberry icecream, but strawberry fans aren't going to suddenly love chocolate, and even chocolate fans will eventually become dismayed by the lack of choice.

Role playing elements and stronger stories are improving FPSs.

Name one recent FPS with an actual decent story line released in the last two years that isn't a generic military cliche. Or some slapped on "unlocking component" for mp.  It's ok I'll wait.

[element eater]

^borderlands? not that the story was particularly good, and not that i would particularly disagree with you just think its worth a mention