158 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePwener]

IsaacShep wrote...

And of course both Sheploo and Michael are incredibly handsome

Hell, I even roleplay that Mike is Shepard's ancestor. Both him and my Shepard look alike.

[Lunatic LK47]

Edit: Adding some detail

Problem I had with Alpha Protocol is that for a game that preached "Choice is your weapon," the whole package is "Choice is a hindrance no matter what you do."

Mandatory boss fights requiring SPECIFIC CHARACTER BUILDS, check. (i.e. Use Chain-shot+ Brilliance)

Crappy interface, check. No, orange interface+ bright environments=/= good interface no matter how you spin it. Aiming specific targets with Chain shot is an utter pain in the ass because Obsidian failed to test this and is as stupid as saying "Look for a red laser dot in broad daylight"

"What's that? You didn't play the missions in a certain order and are stuck? **** you."

"What's that? You wanted to focus on Stealth, but can't fight your way out of a plot-dictated fight? **** you."

"What's that? You wanted to play a run-and-gun character, but have problems with our controls? **** you."

"What's that? You wanted to use gadgets, but have problems with our bosses? **** you."

"What's that? You got captured but can't beat two guards because you didn't level up MA? LOLZ, reload an earlier save!"

The plot-dictated railroading made me face-palm at times as well, with what? Only Marburg being the only one possibly killed if you ****** him off enough times, while most missions are "Oh, you'll just fight different NPCs, and everything remains *MOSTLY* the same (only exception being G22 vs. VCI in Moscow).

Railroading problem I had.

Spare Shaheed or actually kill him? Alpha Protocol still tries to off you, just for the sake of "Make Mike a rogue agent."

Spare Al-Jibari or kill him? The guy dies anyway, making it pointless other than a possible reputation point with Marburg.

Oops, you're FORCED to fight Brayko. Last time I checked, I was told "I could talk my way out of boss fights." Apparently, it only applied once (i.e. SIE)

Try to get Mina to safety? Regardless of what dialogue option you chose, she STILL gets captured regardless.

Modifié par Lunatic LK47, 23 août 2011 - 04:24 .

[Lunatic LK47]

habitat 67 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^I saw some gameplay vids... didn't AP play more or less like ME1 minus powers?

No.
It is much much much more awkward and clunky.

Biggest understatement of the year. Wish I didn't pre-order especially after 7 playthroughs just to discover every nook and cranny regarding the "alternate paths." I'd rather take my chances with Deus Ex: Human Revolution instead.

[ThePwener]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

*snip*

No idea what you mean. The only problem I had was the combat with Margburg. Chain-shot is mandatory for boss fights....

Choices and order of missions? Oh well, guess I got lucky... or knew I had to do my homework and play it right other then jumping in on the main mission. DUH

People died in my first time, which I liked. Madison got offed, Mina got executed and Scarlet (LI).... never found out about that one.

Choices played right and repercussions were varied. It was well done. The only problem was the ME1 gameplay.

Everything else is up to the player's competence. It was handled very realistically, just like I'd like ME to be.

Modifié par ThePwener, 23 août 2011 - 02:47 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

I've played AP with 4 completely different builds now and there is absolutely no mandatory abilities needed - hell my favorite build didn't have a single weapon ability but instead relied on martial arts and stealth which worked just fine.

[Xeranx]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

I've played AP with 4 completely different builds now and there is absolutely no mandatory abilities needed - hell my favorite build didn't have a single weapon ability but instead relied on martial arts and stealth which worked just fine.

Agreed.  I'm thinking that people who say [something] is mandatory are really saying that they couldn't do much without [that thing] being available.  It's like saying that Colossus armor is the only armor anyone needs to use in ME ...because no one thinks about using something else.

[Davie McG]

Xeranx wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

I've played AP with 4 completely different builds now and there is absolutely no mandatory abilities needed - hell my favorite build didn't have a single weapon ability but instead relied on martial arts and stealth which worked just fine.

Agreed.  I'm thinking that people who say [something] is mandatory are really saying that they couldn't do much without [that thing] being available.  It's like saying that Colossus Predator X armor is the only armor anyone needs to use in ME ...because no one thinks about using something else.

Fixed.

I agree though, I liked hitman way back because you could run and gun or you could stealth it. Looking forward to playing it now.

Edit: Typo.

Modifié par Davie McG, 23 août 2011 - 03:10 .

[Xeranx]

I prefer Predator X armor myself, but I still make due with Scorpion and I wish Gladiator had better stats. Love the look of that...especially the heavy version on my female Shepard.

[The Spamming Troll]

i was wondering what this fourm thought of AP. im getting deus EX tomm but i really dont want to get another game thats also the RPG/shooter/whatever. itll get too confusing. but i like the discussion and hope this topic doesnt get closed, atleast until i buy deus ex.

[Chuvvy]

Shepard's getting a badass long coat.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Considering it hasn't been released yet, I'd suppose not.

[Iakus]

ThePwener wrote...

I just finished Alpha Protocol today and the game takes choices/repercussions to a whole new level. If ME used that same system then it would be the best game ever in my opinion.

Things you did at the start of the game effect the ending. How you talk to people. How you handle missions. Who you buy things from and all around WHAT YOU DO comes into play.

Seriously, play that game and then think of what ME could have been. It puts ME to shame. Oh, and you can respond to Emails in whathever way you want. INSULT!

Ah, AP, The Spy RPG.  "Your weapon is choice".  My personal RPG of 2010.    If either Deus Ex or ME3 was half that game AP is as far as story and consequences go, I'll be very happy indeed.

I mean, choices that actually mean something!  Customized skills!  Inventory!  RPG mechanics!  Eww!  Eww!  Eww!  

[Anacronian Stryx]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...


*sigh*
I swear I've "heard" you say the exact same thing before. Multiple times. Just so you know, you don't really NEED Chain shot for Brayko. If you're really good at the game, you can pull it off without it. I'm not that good, and I had to re-allocate points to pistols just for that. And you know what? No biggie. It's a case of, I'm not good enough at one thing (normal combat) so I do another thing to circumvent the problem.
*Gasp* Was that a...a choice?

Hell if you can even pay somebody (not saying whom:)) to spike Brayko's cocain so he dosen't get his second wind

[Lunatic LK47]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

*sigh*
I swear I've "heard" you say the exact same thing before. Multiple times. Just so you know, you don't really NEED Chain shot for Brayko. If you're really good at the game, you can pull it off without it. I'm not that good, and I had to re-allocate points to pistols just for that. And you know what? No biggie. It's a case of, I'm not good enough at one thing (normal combat) so I do another thing to circumvent the problem.
*Gasp* Was that a...a choice?

Uh, no. Crappy controls+ Badly designed skills=/= Good choices. And no, even if I did spike Brayko's drugs, it still doesn't really explain why Chain Shot is the most relied skill no matter how its spun. Assault rifle usage? Oh, pardon me, I have a sub-par auto-aim as a skill. SMGS? Only thing going for it is the "Unlimited ammo for a limited duration." Shotgun? Oh yeah, the "Room Sweep" option is only valid for mooks while bosses love to do "John Woo dive-rolls." Martial Arts? The high level of endurance makes using it undesirable, even if I MAXED IT OUT

[Sepewrath]

JukeFrog wrote...

Deus Ex and Alpha Protocol are stand-alone games that don't have to worry about future games in their franchises. Being the last game in the series will (hopefully) allow for more freedom in ME3.

Pretty much, people ignore the fact that this is a trilogy and this stuff has to go over 3 games, its a lot easier to make choices matter in a single game. There are less overall choices, less branches to be concerned with and so on. They can go all out in this game, but its still far more difficult tracking, the different possible combinations over the first two games, then Deus Ex does with just its one game.

[Xeranx]

Sepewrath wrote...

JukeFrog wrote...

Deus Ex and Alpha Protocol are stand-alone games that don't have to worry about future games in their franchises. Being the last game in the series will (hopefully) allow for more freedom in ME3.

Pretty much, people ignore the fact that this is a trilogy and this stuff has to go over 3 games, its a lot easier to make choices matter in a single game. There are less overall choices, less branches to be concerned with and so on. They can go all out in this game, but its still far more difficult tracking, the different possible combinations over the first two games, then Deus Ex does with just its one game.

There are quite a few people who don't think that because Mass Effect is a trilogy means that every...single...choice needs to be reflected in the sequel.  The choice of saving the council is perfect for that and it barely gets a nod.  Spectre reinstatement as long as you're out of the Council's sight. <_<  That's unacceptable.  If nothing else, the consequences of such a choice should have played out in ME2 and become a major factor in ME3.  

I still cite that short development time is the reason a lot wasn't realized for this "sequel".  And considering that Cerberus is involved taking care of or not doing the Cerberus mission in ME should have had an impact on what went on on the SR2.  Kelly should have been apprehensive (yes I know she was almost cut...again I cite short development cycle) if you took down Cerberus bases.  Jacob would have been more interested in getting you to trust him than he was if you took out the bases (I won't comment on his apparant dislike of TIM and his methods yet still works for the guy).  Two consequences that could have been realized.  That's all that needed to be addressed in the "sequel".

[Lunatic LK47]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Even me with my abysmal combat skills only really "needed" Chain shot for Mr. B, even though I'm a stealthy player by habit. Like eighty percent of my kills were sneaking up behind and "Splinter Cell-"ing them. Martial arts is a nice skill to have, especially for right before the assassination (in S, boss fight). It's fairly powerful, and good for if you have two or three mooks in a room: Toss a grenade, then rush in seconds later and take out the last two guys with several well-placed kicks and punches.

Except I found Grenades to be unreliable except as overglorified "Proximity mines." Even then, the limited carrying capacity made it less desirable to use at all. It still doesn't explain why Martial Arts against bosses do very moderate damage compared to knocking out mooks with relative ease.

[Sepewrath]

Xeranx wrote...
There are quite a few people who don't think that because Mass Effect is a trilogy means that every...single...choice needs to be reflected in the sequel.  The choice of saving the council is perfect for that and it barely gets a nod.  Spectre reinstatement as long as you're out of the Council's sight. <_<  That's unacceptable.  If nothing else, the consequences of such a choice should have played out in ME2 and become a major factor in ME3. 

And like I said, you do realize how drastically that would change the story right? Meaning going into ME3, me and you, our stories can be on completely different wavelenghts, then toss in the other 3 million people who played the series. Accounting for all of that, we wouldn't be playing ME3, until 2015 as some of these choices would make for completely different games as they ripple through and branch off.

[Nashiktal]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Problem I had with Alpha Protocol is that for a game that preached "Choice is your weapon," the whole package is "Choice is a hindrance no matter what you do."

Mandatory boss fights requiring SPECIFIC CHARACTER BUILDS, check. (i.e. Use Chain-shot+ Brilliance)

Crappy interface, check. No, orange interface+ bright environments=/= good interface no matter how you spin it. Aiming specific targets with Chain shot is an utter pain in the ass because Obsidian failed to test this and is as stupid as saying "Look for a red laser dot in broad daylight"

"What's that? You didn't play the missions in a certain order and are stuck? **** you."

"What's that? You wanted to focus on Stealth, but can't fight your way out of a plot-dictated fight? **** you."

"What's that? You wanted to play a run-and-gun character, but have problems with our controls? **** you."

"What's that? You wanted to use gadgets, but have problems with our bosses? **** you."

The plot-dictated railroading made me face-palm at times as well, with what? Only Marburg being the only one possibly killed if you ****** him off enough times, while most missions are "Oh, you'll just fight different NPCs, and everything remains *MOSTLY* the same (only exception being G22 vs. VCI in Moscow).

Railroading problem I had.

Spare Shaheed or actually kill him? Alpha Protocol still tries to off you, just for the sake of "Make Mike a rogue agent."

Spare Al-Jibari or kill him? The guy dies anyway, making it pointless other than a possible reputation point with Marburg.

Oops, you're FORCED to fight Brayko. Last time I checked, I was told "I could talk my way out of boss fights." Apparently, it only applied once (i.e. SIE)

Try to get Mina to safety? Regardless of what dialogue option you chose, she STILL gets captured regardless.

Chain shot is definately broken, but in no way is it mandatory. I managed to beat all the enemies in the game without chanshot. Although in my second playthrough it felt like I was a god...

You can play any missions in any order... EVEN IF YOU HAVE NOT COMPLETED ALL THE MSSONS IN ONE AREA. Stuck in russia? Then go somewhere else and gain some experience.

Stealth annoying during combat? I will grant you that, built myself up as stealth and had to fight brayko.... Was hell, got him in the end though. ALSO THERE IS MORE THAN ONE BOSS FIGHT YOU CAN AVOID BY TALIKING.

Gadgets are useful against bosses, hell a flash grenade makes brayko cake.

Controls are clunky, but its never run in gun. 

Alpha protocol still trying to off you? THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SAHEED. Pay attention to the story. I won't tell you why it is because its a huge spoiler, but man saheed has nothing to do with why you are a roge agent.

Sparing or killing AL-jibari does more than affect reputation with marburg, there are more factors that depend on earlier missions. HINT HINT HINT  

She might still get captured, but it changes the story. You can't expect everything to be different.

Dude, i'm sorry to say but most of your choice complaints is just  you not playing enough. There is a serious amount of depth in the choices and changes if you dig into them. I've played three times, and have found my playthroughs are almsot completely different, especially with the endings.


Edit: Reading through your complaints makes me want to spoil everything for you. I suggest going and reading the wiki if you are unwilling to playthough it multiple times to hit all the variables, hell the wiki IS STILL FINDING ALL THE VARIABLES. 

Modifié par Nashiktal, 23 août 2011 - 04:05 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

It's far too late in development for that. Though I personally hope that Bioware take inspiration from TW2 and DX:HR when it comes to choices and impacts, for their future titles.

I have to agree with Boiny in that I think it's too late to make any masive changes but I too would like them to learn from other titles in aspects that could improve their own games. This is not the same as importing tacky things from other genres but more inline with importing and improving via seeing what titles of the same ganre are doing better.

This is less of a concern with ME than I had with DA but all the same it's still never bad idea to keep eye on what other developers are doing with their [RPGs] such as Skyrim, TW2 and DE:HR. I don't know much about AP so can't really add to list.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 août 2011 - 04:07 .

[Nashiktal]

Sepewrath wrote...

JukeFrog wrote...

Deus Ex and Alpha Protocol are stand-alone games that don't have to worry about future games in their franchises. Being the last game in the series will (hopefully) allow for more freedom in ME3.

Pretty much, people ignore the fact that this is a trilogy and this stuff has to go over 3 games, its a lot easier to make choices matter in a single game. There are less overall choices, less branches to be concerned with and so on. They can go all out in this game, but its still far more difficult tracking, the different possible combinations over the first two games, then Deus Ex does with just its one game.

Actually alpha protocol was supposed to get a sequel, but now its on hold. 

Good news though, Obsidian wants to make the sequel, and its in their minds.

[Nashiktal]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Even me with my abysmal combat skills only really "needed" Chain shot for Mr. B, even though I'm a stealthy player by habit. Like eighty percent of my kills were sneaking up behind and "Splinter Cell-"ing them. Martial arts is a nice skill to have, especially for right before the assassination (in S, boss fight). It's fairly powerful, and good for if you have two or three mooks in a room: Toss a grenade, then rush in seconds later and take out the last two guys with several well-placed kicks and punches.

Except I found Grenades to be unreliable except as overglorified "Proximity mines." Even then, the limited carrying capacity made it less desirable to use at all. It still doesn't explain why Martial Arts against bosses do very moderate damage compared to knocking out mooks with relative ease.

Because they're bosses. They wouldn't be "bosses" unless they were more powerful, thus more resistant, than your average mook.

I have to admit though, I love this game to death, and I am defending it. But I will concede that actual gameplay can be frustrating and annoying depending on your style. Enemy guns hurt, and are accurate, your own aim is clunky at best, stealth is godlike, but hindrace against some bosses, and shotguns are near useless except versus brakyko.

Still love the hell out of it though.