619 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You think the Dwarves will stop selling their main customer, wether direct or indirect, just because the mediator stops mediating? If anything the Dwarves have shown themselves to be rather fond of their money. They will keep selling, for as long as therer is a profit to be made.

Exept the Chantry is not the mediator, but is the buyer.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

It would not be as simple as just templars fighting mages it would be a massive war.

I can already see what happens it starts as templars facing off with mages with them getting support from tevinter i could even maybe even see the Dalish giving aid to the mages to try and regain some of their former power and it would just esculate into every other nation backing up the templars.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 27 août 2011 - 03:23 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

They buy, then supply the Templars, and Circles. With the Chantry out of the way it is simply the Templars, and the odd mage, who will want Lyrium. Also, there are probably lyrium stores in all major hubs with Templar presence, which the Templars rpobably took with them, when they left. Not even counting the Circles themselves which probably have even more lyrium.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

It would not be as simple as just templars fighting mages it would be a massive war.

I can already see what happens it starts as templars facing off with mages with them getting support from tevinter i could even maybe even see the Dalish giving aid to the mages to try and regain some of their former power and it would just esculate into every other nation backing up the templars.

I have a hard time seeing why the Dalish would ever care to aid the mages. At least not directly in the war itself. Sure they may aid a few of them with shelter and food. Not with actual manpower and lives.

[KnightofPhoenix]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They buy, then supply the Templars, and Circles. With the Chantry out of the way it is simply the Templars, and the odd mage, who will want Lyrium. Also, there are probably lyrium stores in all major hubs with Templar presence, which the Templars rpobably took with them, when they left. Not even counting the Circles themselves which probably have even more lyrium.

And how long would that last them?
And do the Templars have the money to buy it in the first place? From where?

Mages can resort to blood magic, thus eliminating their need for lyrium entirely or at least alleviating it.

EDIT: now I can see Templars recruiting people and not giving them lyrium in the first place, but teaching them Templar abilities, which we know is possible. But that does not prevent a potential logistical disaster iin the long run.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 août 2011 - 03:26 .

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They buy, then supply the Templars, and Circles. With the Chantry out of the way it is simply the Templars, and the odd mage, who will want Lyrium. Also, there are probably lyrium stores in all major hubs with Templar presence, which the Templars rpobably took with them, when they left. Not even counting the Circles themselves which probably have even more lyrium.

Buy with what?!  The Templars have no lands and no income rights.  They exist at the sufferance of the Chantry.  Mages on the other hand DO have services that are valuable and can be traded (i.e. their magic).  Not only that but the logistics to support mages which have robes and staves, is a LOT less than it is to support heavy infantry.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

If they want to resort to blood magic that is. I doubt, and hope, that most mages won't.

And asI mentioned, Templars were probably in control of the Circle treasury, plus they probably had their own aswell. I doubt they were all on abudget from the Chantry. How big either treasury is/was, is impossible to gauge.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

It would not be as simple as just templars fighting mages it would be a massive war.

I can already see what happens it starts as templars facing off with mages with them getting support from tevinter i could even maybe even see the Dalish giving aid to the mages to try and regain some of their former power and it would just esculate into every other nation backing up the templars.

I have a hard time seeing why the Dalish would ever care to aid the mages. At least not directly in the war itself. Sure they may aid a few of them with shelter and food. Not with actual manpower and lives.

That depends.  I can think of one reason:  It would be a perfect way to kick the chantry between the legs for what they did to the Dales (i.e. giving support to the mages).

-Polaris

[TEWR]

Let's look at the things the Templar army needs (if I miss anything feel free to correct me):


Templars

1. Food
2. Money
3. Lyrium
4. weapons and armor
5. Unity


Without the Chantry, they lose their lyrium. Once the withdrawal kicks in, a good portion of Templars will die from it. The ones that don't will use up whatever money they have trying to get more lyrium, and once that's gone they'll be forced to ransack and pillage to get more money and food. Which will not go over well with the populus. I imagine some may even be so foolish as to sell their own arms and armor. Once the lyrium withdrawal kicks in, the Templars' unity will collapse.



Mages

1. Food
2. Money
3. weapons and armor
4. unity

Mages don't need lyrium to power their spells, and they are even trained in abilities that deal with mana restoration. They can enchant items and sell them to the populus for money, and their own staves serve as weapons. Some have blades on the end while others have more of a mace-like weapon on the end.

The only thing they need is unity, but that's been addressed that they could split up into factions.

Add into this the fact that there will be Templars supporting the mages, and the mages will have a good shot of winning.

[Erani]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Erani wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Erani wrote...

Well three years after, all the circles are free and the Chantry has lost its Templars so looks like the mages are pretty organized. Also, I hope the mages stole as much lyrium as possible and threw away the rest...Templars: good luck getting it directly from the dwarves.

They've been getting it directly from the dwarves for 900 years previously... I think they will be fine...

Errr no, the Chantry got the lyrium from the dwarves, and used it to drug the Templars into obedience. It's possible that lyrium has no impact on Templar skills and once they found out how the Chantry had used them, decided to break free. On the other hand, if lyrium is indeed connected to their abilities and with the Chantry controlling the lyrium trade...then the situation does not look good for the Templars as I doubt the Chantry will keep providing them with it.

You think the Dwarves will stop selling their main customer, wether direct or indirect, just because the mediator stops mediating? If anything the Dwarves have shown themselves to be rather fond of their money. They will keep selling, for as long as therer is a profit to be made.

Please, the Templars are now broke. The Chantry isn't paying them, Free Marches nobles are apathetic, Ferelden is broke, who's gonna pay them? Not to mention that the Chantry probably kept many Tranquil and milks them for enchanting (therefore still buys lyrium from the dwarves)
Also, magic is valuable and mages can get coin from healing and stuff. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If they want to resort to blood magic that is. I doubt, and hope, that most mages won't.

And asI mentioned, Templars were probably in control of the Circle treasury, plus they probably had their own aswell. I doubt they were all on abudget from the Chantry. How big either treasury is/was, is impossible to gauge.

Mages could have stolen the Circle treasury. And I highly doubt the Chantry did not monopolise all the finances.

They may have had a reserve treasury (assuming it didn't get raided in the initial revolts), but I see no way they could have a steady income for a long war of attrition. Not without plundering or pillaging.

Edit: Hmmm, maybe Tranquils though, but that would require a demand for enchantements.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 août 2011 - 03:31 .

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If they want to resort to blood magic that is. I doubt, and hope, that most mages won't.

And asI mentioned, Templars were probably in control of the Circle treasury, plus they probably had their own aswell. I doubt they were all on abudget from the Chantry. How big either treasury is/was, is impossible to gauge.

Given that the mages controlled the circles at least briefly, think you are very much mistaken in assuming the Templars get ANYTHING of value from the old Tower buildings (i.e. no gold or lyrium there...the rebelling mages would blow it up first).

-Polaris

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Hmmm, yeah nevermind the dalish would give no help to the mages most likely.

Still if they rebel what exactly is their goal? Bring down the templar order and then what?

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They buy, then supply the Templars, and Circles. With the Chantry out of the way it is simply the Templars, and the odd mage, who will want Lyrium. Also, there are probably lyrium stores in all major hubs with Templar presence, which the Templars rpobably took with them, when they left. Not even counting the Circles themselves which probably have even more lyrium.

Buy with what?!  The Templars have no lands and no income rights.  They exist at the sufferance of the Chantry.  Mages on the other hand DO have services that are valuable and can be traded (i.e. their magic).  Not only that but the logistics to support mages which have robes and staves, is a LOT less than it is to support heavy infantry.

-Polaris

You didn't buy endgame staves for your mages apparently ... Anyway...

The Templar Order is a knightly order attached to the Chantry, they aren't the actual Chantry (ie. Just a brother who takes up arms), they are bound to have their own funding, possibly (or rather probably) with Chantry support, but they would most likely have their own treasury. How they fill their treasury I cannot say, but it is probably similar to the Templars and Knights Teutonic of our world.

[TEWR]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

It would not be as simple as just templars fighting mages it would be a massive war.

I can already see what happens it starts as templars facing off with mages with them getting support from tevinter i could even maybe even see the Dalish giving aid to the mages to try and regain some of their former power and it would just esculate into every other nation backing up the templars.

I have a hard time seeing why the Dalish would ever care to aid the mages. At least not directly in the war itself. Sure they may aid a few of them with shelter and food. Not with actual manpower and lives.

That depends.  I can think of one reason:  It would be a perfect way to kick the chantry between the legs for what they did to the Dales (i.e. giving support to the mages).

-Polaris

and the fact that the rogue Templars will most likely go after the Keepers and the Firsts.

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If they want to resort to blood magic that is. I doubt, and hope, that most mages won't.

And asI mentioned, Templars were probably in control of the Circle treasury, plus they probably had their own aswell. I doubt they were all on abudget from the Chantry. How big either treasury is/was, is impossible to gauge.

Given that the mages controlled the circles at least briefly, think you are very much mistaken in assuming the Templars get ANYTHING of value from the old Tower buildings (i.e. no gold or lyrium there...the rebelling mages would blow it up first).

-Polaris

You think the mages had time to runaway with carts full of gold? Even assuming that the gold is kept anywhere near mages who rutinely try and escape (and could thus use a handful of gold). I give they could try set off the lyrium (again assuming it is kept anywhere near the mages), but the gold? Not so much. Far too heavy.

[Erani]

The Dalish hate both the Chantry and Templars. I see them trying to stay as far away from conflict as possible but way more likely to help an apostate than a Templar.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

It would not be as simple as just templars fighting mages it would be a massive war.

I can already see what happens it starts as templars facing off with mages with them getting support from tevinter i could even maybe even see the Dalish giving aid to the mages to try and regain some of their former power and it would just esculate into every other nation backing up the templars.

I have a hard time seeing why the Dalish would ever care to aid the mages. At least not directly in the war itself. Sure they may aid a few of them with shelter and food. Not with actual manpower and lives.

That depends.  I can think of one reason:  It would be a perfect way to kick the chantry between the legs for what they did to the Dales (i.e. giving support to the mages).

-Polaris

and the fact that the rogue Templars will most likely go after the Keepers and the Firsts.

What on earht would give the Templars a sudden impulse to go after the Keepers and Firsts more than they already do? The Dalish are used to that, they won't join a futile war for that.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

No, i doubt the mages would get any help from the dalish now that i think about it.

The rebels are just another tevinter imperium in the making do you really think the Dalish would support a group like that after losing everything they had to Tevinter? If anything they might actually strongly oppose the mages.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 27 août 2011 - 03:34 .

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Templar Order is a knightly order attached to the Chantry, they aren't the actual Chantry (ie. Just a brother who takes up arms), they are bound to have their own funding, possibly (or rather probably) with Chantry support, but they would most likely have their own treasury. How they fill their treasury I cannot say, but it is probably similar to the Templars and Knights Teutonic of our world.

Um no.  The Templars are the military arm of the chantry and paid and cared for by donations to the chantry.  There is zero evidence they have any other source of income.  They have parallel ranks in the chantry but are members of the 'actual' chantry (hence the religious vows).

-Polaris

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They buy, then supply the Templars, and Circles. With the Chantry out of the way it is simply the Templars, and the odd mage, who will want Lyrium. Also, there are probably lyrium stores in all major hubs with Templar presence, which the Templars rpobably took with them, when they left. Not even counting the Circles themselves which probably have even more lyrium.

Buy with what?!  The Templars have no lands and no income rights.  They exist at the sufferance of the Chantry.  Mages on the other hand DO have services that are valuable and can be traded (i.e. their magic).  Not only that but the logistics to support mages which have robes and staves, is a LOT less than it is to support heavy infantry.

-Polaris

The common people are in most cases more likely to pay for the help of a templar than a mage. Templars are still more highly respected and looked up to than mages, while mages, although powerful and capable of many services beyond the abilities of mundanes, are largely feared.

Just look at what happens to Jowan if you rat him out as a mage to the villagers he's trying to help escort to safety. They turn on him in the blink of an eye.

Anders was only fortunate because he was helping the Fereldan refugees, who were getting absolutely no aid from Kirkwall.

Some mages will do fine, I'm sure, but the population at large is more likely to stone a known apostate to death or run away than risk being associated with a 'criminal'.


Edit: Note that when I mention templars here, I'm assuming that they have broken away from the Chantry as per DA2's ending, so they are no longer getting paid the regular way.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 27 août 2011 - 03:36 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Erani wrote...

The Dalish hate both the Chantry and Templars. I see them trying to stay as far away from conflict as possible but way more likely to help an apostate than a Templar.

Exactly. Surely some Dalish clans will help the odd apostate. But they will msot likely not commit to a war that is not theirs, and will not benefit them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The Templar Order is a knightly order attached to the Chantry, they aren't the actual Chantry (ie. Just a brother who takes up arms), they are bound to have their own funding, possibly (or rather probably) with Chantry support, but they would most likely have their own treasury. How they fill their treasury I cannot say, but it is probably similar to the Templars and Knights Teutonic of our world.

The Teutonics owned lands (and forged a kingdom). Templars are not as independent an order and there is no indication that they own lands. They are the military arm of the Chantry, created by the Chantry. They were not independent, not before now.

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Templar Order is a knightly order attached to the Chantry, they aren't the actual Chantry (ie. Just a brother who takes up arms), they are bound to have their own funding, possibly (or rather probably) with Chantry support, but they would most likely have their own treasury. How they fill their treasury I cannot say, but it is probably similar to the Templars and Knights Teutonic of our world.

Um no.  The Templars are the military arm of the chantry and paid and cared for by donations to the chantry.  There is zero evidence they have any other source of income.  They have parallel ranks in the chantry but are members of the 'actual' chantry (hence the religious vows).

-Polaris

Like our Knightly Orders...

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You think the mages had time to runaway with carts full of gold? Even assuming that the gold is kept anywhere near mages who rutinely try and escape (and could thus use a handful of gold). I give they could try set off the
lyrium (again assuming it is kept anywhere near the mages), but the gold? Not so much. Far too heavy.

I didn't say the mages would get all of it, but it wouldn't take much time at all to make what gold they couldn't take completely worthless to the Templars at least not without a whole lot of work.  Also putting your main gold reserves next to those you are trying to guard seems 'iffy' to me anyway.

-Polaris