619 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

You are right if the mages took contol of lyrium trade that would effectively end the templars very fast. But why would the dwarves close off trade to another side? Lets not forget the Carta is based out of Ozrammar and is in the buisness of smuggling Lyrium (everyone and their mother smuggles the stuff to the surface) and i doubt the merchants guild would want to close off trades to one side completely they are that corrupt and greedy.

Why would the Dwarves cut off trade to the other side?  Money talks.  Fecal-Bull matter walks.  The Templars don't have any way to PAY for their lyrium.  The mages do.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
But Legacy revived my hope somewhat and therefore I'll wait till the next major release.:happy:

Because Cory was multi-faceted?

....he comes no where near the Architect.

D: What? Cory was one of the tevinter magisters that stormed the golden cities and brought the dark spawn into the world..he steps all over the Architect in the coolness meter!

*multi-faceted* (and what you are saying here is not cool to me in the slightest)

If Ian Polaris, possibily the most ardent opponent of the Architect, said he was a tragic figure in some ways, then that's really a big proof that he is multi-faceted.

[Foolsfolly]

I agree with Ian. It's impossible for the Mages to completely corner the lyrium trade. Unless they kick the dwarves out and man every inch of the Deep Roads. There's no way they'll completely cut the Templars off from their lyrium.

[Urzon]

D: What? Cory was one of the tevinter magisters that stormed the golden cities and brought the dark spawn into the world..he steps all over the Architect in the coolness meter!

If currect speculation turns out to be true, there is a chance that the Architect was one of the magisters as well.

Plus, we don't know Cory much or what his views are on things. Other than being pro-slavery and power threw any manys most magisters seem to hold, Cory could be a prefectly reasonable person.

Though i do wonder about his body jumping ability. If he jumps to a non-grey warden body, does his new body become tainted as well or is it left behind?

[Follow Me on Twitter]

So they have a bunch of addicted templars looking for their fix desperate enough to do anything to get it. And you have a guild as shady as the crows in practice i could see the templar giving them some bodyguards in exchange for lyrium

To be honest i kind of felt bad for Cory when he was shouting for Dumat. Still anyone that took part in "destroying heaven" is pretty gnarly.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 27 août 2011 - 06:27 .

[Melca36]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

And you would be surprised at how hard people fight and how much they are willing to sacrifice to defend their religion.

What makes you assume everyone in Thedas is a devoted Andrastian?

[Urzon]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

So they have a bunch of addicted templars looking for their fix desperate enough to do anything to get it. And you have a guild as shady as the crows in practice i could see the templar giving them some bodyguards in exchange for lyrium

So they would be in the service of their supplier? Other than all the god-speak, how is that any different than them working for the Chantry?

[IanPolaris]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I agree with Ian. It's impossible for the Mages to completely corner the lyrium trade. Unless they kick the dwarves out and man every inch of the Deep Roads. There's no way they'll completely cut the Templars off from their lyrium.

Really because that's not what I said at all.  I don't think Mages will be able to cut off Templars from Lyrium.  I think the fact that Templars don't have any MONEY will do that all on it's own.

-Polaris

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Melca36 wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

And you would be surprised at how hard people fight and how much they are willing to sacrifice to defend their religion.

What makes you assume everyone in Thedas is a devoted Andrastian?

I'm not assuming everyone is, just most of them are. 

It's not service its desperation.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 27 août 2011 - 06:29 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Melca36 wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

And you would be surprised at how hard people fight and how much they are willing to sacrifice to defend their religion.

What makes you assume everyone in Thedas is a devoted Andrastian?

Let's be frank here, what's more likely to motivate people, in our age and in Thedas especially? Fear and hatred, in this scenario masqued by religion? Or enlightened open mindedness and vision?

But like I said before, they will probably get pissed off at everyone eventually.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 août 2011 - 06:29 .

[Melca36]

And about the Wardens declaring themselves "Neutral" .........

The people of the Anderfels let them rule over their weak king.

I also remember a line in Awakening where Celene was angry at the Wardens for being turned away at the border.

This War could also affect the neutrality stance of the Wardens.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Filament wrote...

Well, mages have magic... as we all know, friendship is magic, so mages have friendship... anything is possible with the power of friendship, so the mages definitely have a chance.

When you put it like that, I wonder if the Templars stand any chance at all.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Melca36 wrote...

And about the Wardens declaring themselves "Neutral" .........

The people of the Anderfels let them rule over their weak king.

I also remember a line in Awakening where Celene was angry at the Wardens for being turned away at the border.

This War could also affect the neutrality stance of the Wardens.

They tend to stay neutral because of what happendin ferelden they fear politcal backlash. Andefels is their home its where their fortress is at they do not fear politcal backlash there.

[Melca36]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

And you would be surprised at how hard people fight and how much they are willing to sacrifice to defend their religion.

What makes you assume everyone in Thedas is a devoted Andrastian?

Let's be frank here, what's more likely to motivate people, in our age and in Thedas especially? Fear and hatred, in this scenario masqued by religion? Or enlightened open mindedness and vision?

But like I said before, they will probably get pissed off at everyone eventually.

You have a point but there will still be segments of the common people who will side with the mages. Its not black and white. There a varying shades of grey spread throughout this.

And I still stand by my belief that if say Ferelden had bad diplomatic relations with Orlais, that they would not hesitate to declare themselves mage friendly.

Mages could assist in protecting the borders. 

[Melca36]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

And about the Wardens declaring themselves "Neutral" .........

The people of the Anderfels let them rule over their weak king.

I also remember a line in Awakening where Celene was angry at the Wardens for being turned away at the border.

This War could also affect the neutrality stance of the Wardens.

They tend to stay neutral because of what happendin ferelden they fear politcal backlash. Andefels is their home its where their fortress is at they do not fear politcal backlash there.

Yes, but the Templars breaking off with the Chantry along with the mages...its bound to affect them as well.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Melca36 wrote...
You have a point but there will still be segments of the common people who will side with the mages. Its not black and white. There a varying shades of grey spread throughout this.

And I still stand by my belief that if say Ferelden had bad diplomatic relations with Orlais, that they would not hesitate to declare themselves mage friendly.

Mages could assist in protecting the borders. 

Common people see in black and white however.

And agreed about Ferelden, but I wonder how they will present it to the people. They are devout Andrastrians afterall, the only reason why Loghain and Maric didn't massacre the Chantry.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

The templars have the propaganda to turn people to their side they can get the people to rally to them by using the maker and making them fear mages. And they also have political leverage because after these mages bring down the chantry and their templars and pretty much andrastian belief what are the people going to turn for religion? Maybe the imperial chantry will spread their faith into the free marches and that could possibly lead to another nation like the imperium being born. And we all know how much everyone loves a city ruled by mages.

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Emp,

You seem to think that all attacks on templars will be magically based as will all injuries. I'm sorry but that shows a blatent ignorance of pretty much all pre-modern military history. Before modern times, more soldiers would die of malnutrition, privation, disease, and incidental injuries rather than actual combat and Templars are just as vunerable to those as anyone else. An army supported by magic however, is not nearly so.

-Polaris

And mages aren't? Templars are an actual army, mages has never taken to the field in nubmers more than a handful at a time. Somehow, I think that mages will be far more vulnerable to such losses than Templars, which have had actual trainning in such things.
Also, the wound a mage can cause a Templar is probably going to be limited to magical wound in the most cases, since mages aren't combatants. Hell, most mages probably don't even know all that many combat spells. Again, something tells me that the trained hand-to-hand combatant is going to defeat the untrained, rather easily.

Do you really think the mages are going to fight the Templars by the Templar's rules, i.e. straight up battle?  Not hardly.  The mages are going to scatter and dissapear into the population unless they have places they can defend easily with magic.  Not only that but mages have their powers to trade for supplies and aid.  The Templars have to "forage" with all the negative side effects that implies.

You seem to think it's a unit of Templars facing a unit of mages in the open field.  It won't be; I promise you.

-Polaris

That mighten go down well for the mages however since the templars can track them down with their phylacteries. Destroying the phylacteries would probably have been a priority up there with destroying lyrium supplies when they rebelled but they aren't always kept in the towers (eg Ferelden, nobody had any idea where their phylacteries were hidden) Many circles may have moved their phylacteries as well with the growing tensions between mages and templars so hiding would not be a good option for some circles.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
For the mages to scatter could possibly be the worst idea the mages
could possibly have. Like, at all. ALL Templars have had experience, or
at least trainning, in handling lone mages, or small groups of them.
None of the Templars have had trainning in fighting actual organized
armies of them. But sure, if the mages think they can fight the Templar
by playing by their rules, and scattering, by all means....

I thought templars were trained the fight armies? aren't they the frontline leading force of the Exalted Marches?

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Common people see in black and white however.

And agreed about Ferelden, but I wonder how they will present it to the people. They are devout Andrastrians afterall, the only reason why Loghain and Maric didn't massacre the Chantry.

Probably do it the same way King Henry the VIII did.  Look with sorrow and regret as those vile Orlesians have corrupted the beautiful Chantry beyond recognition, but as part of his sad royal duty, King Alister pledges to protect the Chantry from such influences in Fereldan and to root them out as head of the pure and untainted Chantry of Denerim, home of the birthplace to Andraste.

-Polaris

[Urzon]

Melca36 wrote...

And about the Wardens declaring themselves "Neutral" .........

The people of the Anderfels let them rule over their weak king.

I also remember a line in Awakening where Celene was angry at the Wardens for being turned away at the border.

This War could also affect the neutrality stance of the Wardens.

If the Orlaisian Warden's epilogue turns out to be true, and there is another Blight on its way... I doubt the Warden are going to turn away from their neutrality anytime soon. From what we seen in DA2, the Grey Wardens are doing (or preparing for) something big. As long as there is even a threat of a Blight around, the Grey Wardens are going to have to stick to neutrality. They can't ****** the wrong people off incase they might need their help later on.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Not really they are mage hunters, the last few exhalted marches have ended very badly for the templars they do not stack well fighting other armies unless they completely overrun them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
Probably do it the same way King Henry the VIII did.  Look with sorrow and regret as those vile Orlesians have corrupted the beautiful Chantry beyond recognition, but as part of his sad royal duty, King Alister pledges to protect the Chantry from such influences in Fereldan and to root them out as head of the pure and untainted Chantry of Denerim, home of the birthplace to Andraste.

-Polaris

I can see Anora doing it (because obviously Henry VIII did this to also preserve and enhance his own power). I doubt Alistair would go *that* far. But who know, we'll see.

[IanPolaris]

XxDeonxX wrote...

That mighten go down well for the mages however since the templars can track them down with their phylacteries. Destroying the phylacteries would probably have been a priority up there with destroying lyrium supplies when they rebelled but they aren't always kept in the towers (eg Ferelden, nobody had any idea where their phylacteries were hidden) Many circles may have moved their phylacteries as well with the growing tensions between mages and templars so hiding would not be a good option for some circles.

Fereldan was a unique case in two ways:

1.  The Tower of Magi was place outside the main city/HQ for the Templars.  That is NOT the normal case.  Normally the Tower is cheek and jowl with Templar HQ and a major city.

2.  Fereldan had to keep those phylacteries away from the blight which means they were moved from Denerim.

That would mean Fereldan circle mages would be hosed....except that Fereldan is a Mage-Haven so they aren't.  Elsewhere, almost all of the phylacteries would be destroyed in the first week of the war (along with the lyrium).  A FEW (emphasis on FEW) mages might still be bound by their phylacteries but not enough for the Templars to cut the rebellion down before it started.  We KNOW that much at least is true.

-Polaris

[Augustei]

Melca36 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Erani wrote...

Well three years after, all the circles are free and the Chantry has lost its Templars so looks like the mages are pretty organized. Also, I hope the mages stole as much lyrium as possible and threw away the rest...Templars: good luck getting it directly from the dwarves.

They've been getting it directly from the dwarves for 900 years previously... I think they will be fine...

Alistair didn't use lyrium. What if the Templars found out they were lied to and thats why most broke from the Chantry?

Yeah but once your hooked and have been taking it, Its very difficult to stop taking it. That Templar in Howes dungeon went pretty loony from Lyrium withdrawl so they still need it

IanPolaris wrote...
Not any more they don't.  Knight Capt Cullen made that clear.  As for
being trained to "hunt down and kill", that assumes (as does the
training) that the Templars have the advantage of an overriding
authority and arrest power.  That is no longer true.

This is only confirmed true for Kirkwall, not all of thedas.

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 27 août 2011 - 06:49 .