619 réponses à ce sujet

[Melca36]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

The templars have the propaganda to turn people to their side they can get the people to rally to them by using the maker and making them fear mages. And they also have political leverage because after these mages bring down the chantry and their templars and pretty much andrastian belief what are the people going to turn for religion? Maybe the imperial chantry will spread their faith into the free marches and that could possibly lead to another nation like the imperium being born. And we all know how much everyone loves a city ruled by mages.

I actually think Orlais/The Divine are basically a lighter version of the Imperium.


Also if the Chantry has been hiding things from the people and if it eventually comes out, that will force people to question their faith.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Lets not forget that an exhalted march by the chantry on mages could force the imperial chantry to form their own exhalted march on a weakened chantry.

It comes down to who are the people going to trust the makers servants or the demons coming to destroy their homes.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 27 août 2011 - 06:51 .

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

That mighten go down well for the mages however since the templars can track them down with their phylacteries. Destroying the phylacteries would probably have been a priority up there with destroying lyrium supplies when they rebelled but they aren't always kept in the towers (eg Ferelden, nobody had any idea where their phylacteries were hidden) Many circles may have moved their phylacteries as well with the growing tensions between mages and templars so hiding would not be a good option for some circles.

Fereldan was a unique case in two ways:

1.  The Tower of Magi was place outside the main city/HQ for the Templars.  That is NOT the normal case.  Normally the Tower is cheek and jowl with Templar HQ and a major city.

2.  Fereldan had to keep those phylacteries away from the blight which means they were moved from Denerim.

That would mean Fereldan circle mages would be hosed....except that Fereldan is a Mage-Haven so they aren't.  Elsewhere, almost all of the phylacteries would be destroyed in the first week of the war (along with the lyrium).  A FEW (emphasis on FEW) mages might still be bound by their phylacteries but not enough for the Templars to cut the rebellion down before it started.  We KNOW that much at least is true.

-Polaris

I thought they moved them because of Jowans escape? but I cant really remember now tbh. Was it the blight or Jowan?

[Augustei]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

Lets not forget that an exhalted march by the chantry on mages could force the imperial chantry to form their own exhalted march on a weakened chantry.

It comes down to who are the people going to trust the makers servants or the demons coming to destroy their homes.

While fighting a war with the Qunari as well? That wouldn't be the best of moves on the Imperial chantrys part to put it lightly.
I think more likely the Qunari will take advantage of the situation and invade thedas again. Since the templars unified the people and the mages countered technology with those two factions to busy fighting each other the Qunari threat will be left unchecked

[Melca36]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...



Common people see in black and white however.

And agreed about Ferelden, but I wonder how they will present it to the people. They are devout Andrastrians afterall, the only reason why Loghain and Maric didn't massacre the Chantry.

I think the fear of being invaded again by Orlais would change the perspective of many people.

Also there was a time when Ferelden Nobility had mages living with them..Shale's former master for assistance. I also wonder how much did mages play a part in the Rebellion.

[IanPolaris]

XxDeonxX wrote...

I thought they moved them because of Jowans escape? but I cant really remember now tbh. Was it the blight or Jowan?

Nope.  The Fereldan Tower never held the phylacters of anyone other than the apprentices.  Once you were harrowed, your phylactery was moved to Templar HQ in Denerium.

AFAIK Fereldan is unique in this respect.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  What you are remembering is that after Jowan's escape, the apprentice phyalacteries that are stored in the Fereldan tower were moved to another location (and a more secure one) in that tower.  Finn mentions it off hand.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 27 août 2011 - 06:55 .

[Follow Me on Twitter]

The chantry is at a pretty weakened state at this point they could probably still fight the qunari and send aid to the mages. The imperium has a massive army.

[Melca36]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

Lets not forget that an exhalted march by the chantry on mages could force the imperial chantry to form their own exhalted march on a weakened chantry.

It comes down to who are the people going to trust the makers servants or the demons coming to destroy their homes.

Not all mages will become Demons. Not all mages want to become blood mages. There will be mages fighting blood mages in this war.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Melca36 wrote...
Also there was a time when Ferelden Nobility had mages living with them..Shale's former master for assistance. I also wonder how much did mages play a part in the Rebellion.

This is confusing because King Meghren had a mage advisor as well.

So I don't know, maybe nobles of high rank can request the Circle to send them a mage advisor?

[Rifneno]

IanPolaris wrote...

I'm almost tempted to take you up on it...but I won't. I think it's the chantry by a process of elimination. We're sure who it can't be, and who's left with motive? The Chantry.

As for the big bad evil that forces everyone to reconcile, we already know what that will be. DA2 told us.

The Qun

Do you really think the Qunari will sit back and let the bas war amongst themselves without stepping in to promote the true way of the Qun?

Don't think so.

-Polaris

I'm not so sure. People think the reason Isabela is said to have stolen back the Tome of Stalin and made off with it, proving that the Arishok is as dumb as he is ugly, is because they plan for her to appear again no matter what. I think the reason was because they want to make sure the Arishok can't redeem himself and get back to Par Vollen no matter what. Without an Arishok, the Qunari are in no position to start an invasion. They need to appoint a new one, and we don't really know how that process works. It may take years or even decades. If Hawke spares the Arishok, they may not even be trying to appoint a new one because the old one is still wandering around being a sulky ****** and claiming he can find the tome. Again.

Persephone wrote...

I'll reserve judgment though until an expansion/DAIII comes out. And as for the Warden, mine wouldn't want to be involved in yet another political dilemma she couldn't care less about. She was pretty angry at Eamon for forcing her hand during the Blight.

Right. Eamon. Not the guy trying to kill you. That makes sense.

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

I can picture it now approaching the king of orzammar "We need your aid in defeating the chantry and their evil horde of templars"

and the king laughing as you were thrown out.

It's hilarious how you think you understand every aspect of every culture in Thedas, and all of them either stay neutral or join the side you're with... especially when it doesn't matter which of two kings with vastly different beliefs is in control.

Haha why would he accept that it's not his war he is no danger from the darkspawn or even the mages and guess what he can keep on selling to both sides and make double the profit.

The dwarves are in no danger from the darkspawn? *golf clap*

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Monty Python rabbits everywhere!

I'll get the Vorpal Blades! The Jabberwock lies dead, and we have a greater foe!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

The chantry is at a pretty weakened state at this point they could probably still fight the qunari and send aid to the mages. The imperium has a massive army.

If Fenris is to be believed, no where near the Qunari. Which is not farfetched, considering how the qunari single handedly stood against all of Thedas and would have probably won were it not for mages.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Melca36 wrote...

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

Lets not forget that an exhalted march by the chantry on mages could force the imperial chantry to form their own exhalted march on a weakened chantry.

It comes down to who are the people going to trust the makers servants or the demons coming to destroy their homes.

Not all mages will become Demons. Not all mages want to become blood mages. There will be mages fighting blood mages in this war.

Well of course they arent, but it's easy to convince people otherwise especially after a grand cleric was just killed by a mage.

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Cells can't make "strategic gains" without making themselves an obvious target, and thus terminating their own advantage. Sure they can make a few hit and run attacks. But Templars are probably used to that, especially while on the hunt for mages.
And I'm not claiming it would be a picnic for the Templars, I'm claiming, that if the Mages stick to a tactic that hasn't worked for 900 years, they are going to fail, even if they can prolong that failling, due to changed parameters.

You think the mages have to win outright.  They don't.  They just don't have to lose.  That's because all the longterm trends favor the mages.  Just the lyrium alone means the Templars have maybe a handful of years to put down the mages before they start losing lots and lots of templars to Lyrium withdrawal...and that's not counting the logistical support needed to feed and equip an army of heavy infantry.  The Templars have lost their logistical base which means if the mages continue to snipe for a few years, then things suddenly look pretty bleak for the Templars.

-Polaris

Well the templar in Howes cell was there for 1-1.5 years and he had lost it, the mage-templar war has already been raging for three years when Cassandra is interrogating Varric and she says nothing to suggest that the templars are out of the game yet so they must have some sort of lyrium supply to keep themselves going

[Augustei]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm.. When you fight your way through the gallows you are almost flooded by demons, abominations and blood mages...

If the danger were as dire as the chantry claims, then ALL (or virtually all) of the mages should have gone bad given that they are activelly being hunted and murdered with no way out.  They don't.  As for bloodmagic and demons, when your back is against the wall, the rules don't matter any more.

-Polaris

That some do turn to it, just validates the Chantry's claims. The Chantry doesn't say that ALL mages will turn to it, they simply say that mages are human, and humans will do anyhting to survive when the situation is dire enough. You can't blame the mages for doing so, especially during an annulment.
Even when your back is against the wall, there are still things you simply won't do. It is the same with mages. Many mages have been taught their whole life to stay away from blood magic, and they do so, even in the face of death.

Bolluxs.  In a fight for your life, everything is permissable.  That is generally understood.  Read Hobbes' Leviathan.

-Polaris

Everyhting is permittable... Within your own personal standards. Some persons will not, no matter how dire a situation ever scoop so low to use human shields, for example, becasue of the way they have been taught, and their own beliefs. Others wouldn't care one bit, and would only think about their own survival. And those people, are the blood mages and demonologists.

"Nothing is true, everything is permitted" =P

[IanPolaris]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Well the templar in Howes cell was there for 1-1.5 years and he had lost it, the mage-templar war has already been raging for three years when Cassandra is interrogating Varric and she says nothing to suggest that the templars are out of the game yet so they must have some sort of lyrium supply to keep themselves going

True but I don't think it implies the Templars are getting some sort of lyrium supply.  Now they might be, but I think that conclusion is premature. 

For one thing, I don't think most Templars (esp new ones) need that much lyrium.  For another, I do think that the templars do have emergency lyrium stores.  The ones in the circles are GONE, but I am sure the Templars have some others.  Finally, what I said about the Templars is true.  They don't have any means of supporting themselves other than plunder.  They DO start with consideraly more money than one might think and in the early days, it's quite possible (even likely) that some sympathetic nobles might give donations.

When you combine all these together, I conclude that the Templar's ability to buy lyrium won't dissapear overnight.  It will decay into nothing over a period of a few years (about three or so I'd think actually) and during that time the templars could start enacting extremely stringent rationing on Lyrium and even forgo lyrium to younger knights not yet fully addicted.

This won't solve the fundamental problem for the Templars, but it could easily postpone it by several years (certainly at least three I think).

-Polaris

[Augustei]

Melca36 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Templars are  probably a whole lot more wealthy, and popular than the mages. The mages would be foreced to do a lot more foraging than the Templars.
Furhtermore, the Templars role havn't changed since they left the Chantry, nor has their authority on the matter necesairly lessened. The populace, still remember the Templars and their job, and will probably help them, or at least not obstruct it.
The only difference is that the Templars can't threaten with legal actions against anyone who obstructs their investigations into a mage cell.

Oh really? Then how come when you clicked on random citizens during ACT 3...you heard their resentment at being under Meredith's control?

Mages are alot more popular than you give them credit for,

That happens depending on who you support at the start of Act III, If you support Meredith they will be like "Orsino is mad!" etc etc.

[Melca36]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Melca36 wrote...
Also there was a time when Ferelden Nobility had mages living with them..Shale's former master for assistance. I also wonder how much did mages play a part in the Rebellion.

This is confusing because King Meghren had a mage advisor as well.

So I don't know, maybe nobles of high rank can request the Circle to send them a mage advisor?

That always confused me too because the nobility did stop having mage advisors for a time.

When I make Anora queen...Wynne ends up being her advisor. She always ends up leaving with Shale when I've done Alistair King games. 

Modifié par Melca36, 27 août 2011 - 07:06 .

[Augustei]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

It would not be as simple as just templars fighting mages it would be a massive war.

I can already see what happens it starts as templars facing off with mages with them getting support from tevinter i could even maybe even see the Dalish giving aid to the mages to try and regain some of their former power and it would just esculate into every other nation backing up the templars.

Tevinter wont support the mages, David Gaider pointed out Tevinters magisters dont like political competition and wont give it any chance to florish.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Do you think the qunari still have the leadership at the moment to plan a attack on the imperium though? Their old Arishok was just killed recently so that took out the one controlling the soldiers and maybe made them less effective for awhile.

So then why make it competition? They give them aid and they get a colony in the free marches. 

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 27 août 2011 - 07:09 .

[Tommy6860]

Rifneno wrote...

I'm not so sure. People think the reason Isabela is said to have stolen
back the Tome of Stalin and made off with it, proving that the Arishok
is as dumb as he is ugly, is because they plan for her to appear again
no matter what.

That "Stalin" line was too hilarious, but overall, the rest is plausible.

[Melca36]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Templars are  probably a whole lot more wealthy, and popular than the mages. The mages would be foreced to do a lot more foraging than the Templars.
Furhtermore, the Templars role havn't changed since they left the Chantry, nor has their authority on the matter necesairly lessened. The populace, still remember the Templars and their job, and will probably help them, or at least not obstruct it.
The only difference is that the Templars can't threaten with legal actions against anyone who obstructs their investigations into a mage cell.

Oh really? Then how come when you clicked on random citizens during ACT 3...you heard their resentment at being under Meredith's control?

Mages are alot more popular than you give them credit for,

That happens depending on who you support at the start of Act III, If you support Meredith they will be like "Orsino is mad!" etc etc.

See I forgot about that because I only have done one support the Templars game. I just never saw the point in becoming Viscount.

[Rifneno]

Melca36 wrote...

When I make Anora queen...Wynne ends up being her advisor. She always ends up leaving with Shale when I've done Alistair King games. 

Oh lord!  Anora and Wynne?  They could make a sitcom on that idea!

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
But Legacy revived my hope somewhat and therefore I'll wait till the next major release.:happy:

Because Cory was multi-faceted?

....he comes no where near the Architect.

I found -Cory- to be far more interesting than the Architect who has proven his incompetence not once but twice. (TC, DAA) Is the Architect an interesting character? Sure. But I am more interested in the Ancient Tevinter Magisters and the whole Golden City legend unraveling than in the Architect's misguided notions.

[Melca36]

Rifneno wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

When I make Anora queen...Wynne ends up being her advisor. She always ends up leaving with Shale when I've done Alistair King games. 

Oh lord!  Anora and Wynne?  They could make a sitcom on that idea!

Betty White as Wynne!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[KnightofPhoenix]

XxDeonxX wrote...
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted" =P

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