619 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Without mages, the combined armies lose against the Qunari, pretty much period. That means that I can use this to get legal rights in writing or they can all go down with me. It sounds selfish. It IS selfish, but it's damned effective and honestly, the chantry deserves it.

-Polaris

[Urzon]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Mages were hardly the single savior of Thedas during the Qunari Wars. If you were to separate the contributions of mages vs non mages, the non mages will be vastly greater. It's like comparing the significance of weapons vs the significance of soldiers. Weapons might be important but you can't fight without soldiers.

If anything the Chantry should get the most credit. They were the ones who organized and launched the Exalted Marches to regain lost territory.

If it weren't for the mages of Tevinter and the Circles, the first Qunari Invasion would have ended ALOT differently. The only bad part is that the Qunari know just how much of an effective tool their serabaas could be.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That's jumping to a pretty big conclusion. I think you're vastly overestimating the Circle mages significance. They may have been the strongest weapon compared to the Qunari arsenal, but to say they are the only difference between victory and defeat is overstating it, especially since The Imperium still would have mages.

It's also ridiculous (not to mention rather morally dubious) to expect the entire rest of humanity to acquiesce on those terms. What if they say no? The Qunari are a greater threat to mages than the Chantry will ever be. If the mages just leave people to their fate, while the templars fight and die for the everyone, that's pretty much going to turn all the rest of the people against the mages. And that would make any sort of concession rather hollow because it would make the population accepting them after the war less and less likley.

Besides, even if the Chantry were to agree, what exactly would be in place to keep them honoring such a deal?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:44 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Mages were hardly the single savior of Thedas during the Qunari Wars. If you were to separate the contributions of mages vs non mages, the non mages will be vastly greater. It's like comparing the significance of weapons vs the significance of soldiers. Weapons might be important but you can't fight without soldiers.

If anything the Chantry should get the most credit. They were the ones who organized and launched the Exalted Marches to regain lost territory.

The Chantry was getting steamrollered. The normals were cannon fodder for the Qunari, quite literally. Without the unique and tide-turning powers the mages possessed, the Chantry would have failed, miserably.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Both the chantry and the imperial chantry deserve credit seeing as how it was the only time they worked together to rally two exhalted marches to stop the invasion.

Anything other then that is just personal bias.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:49 .

[Urzon]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

That's jumping to a pretty big conclusion. I think you're vastly overestimating the Circle mages significance. They may have been the strongest weapon compared to the Qunari arsenal, but to say they are the only difference between victory and defeat is overstating it, especially since The Imperium still would have mages.

Not by much. The Qunari force had better: technology, armor, weapons, fightning experience, and combat training. Unless the forces of Thedas were going to zerg it, they would have been slaughtered and Thedas would be part of the Qun. The combined forces of all the Circles and Magisters of Tevinter was the tipping factor in Thedas' favor.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

The Chantry was getting steamrollered.
The normals were cannon fodder for the Qunari, quite literally. Without the unique and tide-turning powers the mages possessed, the Chantry would have failed, miserably.

And Is that stated somewhere in the lore or is that just an assumption people are making? I've read the codex entries on the Qunari War.

Urzon wrote...
Not
by much. The Qunari force had better: technology, armor, weapons,
fightning experience, and combat training. Unless the forces of Thedas
were going to zerg it, they would have been slaughtered and Thedas would
be part of the Qun. The combined forces of all the Circles and
Magisters of Tevinter was the tipping factor in Thedas' favor.

The humans had the superior numbers and the advantage of fighting in their own territory. The further the Qunari pushed, the longer they had to waiting for reinforcements. I doubt very much the Qunari could have conquered and held all of Thedas for a truly lengthy period of time, they don't even have total control over Seheron now a days.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:58 .

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Armor and Weapons i don't think so. But they do have explosives and cannons.

Regardless Tevinter would have been conquered without the chantry getting involved. Argue it all you want but both sides needed each other.

And no that is them assuming ****. Like usal these boards are entirely opinions and very little facts. Because the only information we have on the events are codex entries that are about as accurate as a history book from the 18th century in a class room in modern america.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:58 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

The Chantry was getting steamrollered.
The normals were cannon fodder for the Qunari, quite literally. Without the unique and tide-turning powers the mages possessed, the Chantry would have failed, miserably.

And Is that stated somewhere in the lore or is that just an assumption people are making? I've read the codex entries on the Qunari War.

The history codex entries by Brother Genetivi, in fact. He specifically names the Circles as the Chantry armies' ace in the hole, stating that their powers proved to be more than a match for both Qunari cannons and the Saarebases.

"The greatest advantage that the Chantry-led forces had against the
Qunari was, in fact, the Circle of Magi. For all their technology, the
Qunari appeared to harbor a great hatred for all things magical. They
possessed mages, but these were little better than animals kept on
leashes… and none of the Qunari mages possessed anywhere near the skill
that the Circle’s mages had. Faced with cannons, the Chantry responded
with lightning and balls of fire and it proved effective indeed."

And Brother Genetivi's Codex writings probably have the least bull**** per line, relative to the codex in general.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:00 .

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Yes, because you know whats bull**** and whats not.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Yes I've read that one. That doesn't mean the Circle mages were the only thing separating humanity from Qunari rule nor does it say the rest of the Chantry's soldiers were completely ineffective. All it says was that the mages were the Chantry's most effecitve weapon against the Qunari, not their one and only hope for survival.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:03 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

Yes, because you know whats bull**** and whats not.

Yes because that information coming from the writings of a Circle Enchanter is infinitely more reliable. Look, Genetivi is a Chantry brother, so he's not totally unbiased. But if someone like him is able to admit as much about the Circle, there's probably something to it. I mean, most Andrastians wouldn't be caught dead complimenting a mage.

Edit: Without the Circle, the rest of Thedas might have been able to win. But how much longer would it have taken? How much more land would have been destroyed? How many more people, followers of the Qun, would they have to massacre in Chantry re-education efforts?

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:08 .

[Follow Me on Twitter]

You mean the codex entry that just furthers the point of just how destructive and dangerous they are?

I can twist things too see.

For all its worth the circle mages make up a small amount of the actual armies, hell Tevinter relies mostly on slaves to fight their battles with the Qunari, oh and golems as well. 

Sure mages had their part were they the deal breaker? No. Was a nation goverened by mages about to be conquered? So, i guess they did not carry that war as much as you would love everyone to think.

Give credit where credit is due and be happy that the imperial chantry and chantry were able to put aside their hatred to fight a common enemy.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:14 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

You mean the codex entry that just furthers the point of just how destructive and dangerous they are?

I can twist things too see.

I'm pretty sure being dangerous and destructive in war time is the whole idea. Or were you hoping the mages would kiss the Qunari away?

[Follow Me on Twitter]

No, its just funny you assume a codex entry written by a Andrastian showcasing just how dangerous and destructive a mage can be is actually something uncommon and in no way full of crap.

Edits: its pretty late 

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:21 .

[Augustei]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

Both the chantry and the imperial chantry deserve credit seeing as how it was the only time they worked together to rally two exhalted marches to stop the invasion.

Anything other then that is just personal bias.

i dont think they really worked togeather, they both just happened to be fighting the same threat but within their own territories. The Black Divine called Exalted Marches for the Imperium to take back Qarinus and west Tevinter.. so they were only fighting for and within their own lands.

While the white divine fought to retake Rivain. Neither side shared resources or joined soldiers in battle or anything.. Think Genetivi was stretching that one a bit lol

[CrimsonZephyr]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

No, its just funny you assume a codex entry written by a Andrastian showcasing just how dangerous and destructive a mage can be is actually something uncommon and in no way full of crap.

Edits: its pretty late 

Except you take "lightning" and "fire balls" out of the context of the whole passage. While, in-universe some would do the same, we aren't judging reactions, only the validity of the source. The passage states the Qunari were smashing everything up, the Chantry retaliated with mages being their best weapon. Ergo, mages are damn useful. Nothing is stated within the passage about danger, only utility. And coming from a Chantry scholar, for whom mages canonically will never do anything right - even if they feed orphans, it's part of a sinister plot - it's means more than if a Circle mage wrote "see guys? We did help!"

[Follow Me on Twitter]

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Llomerryn_Accords

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:23 .

[Augustei]

Speaking of Qunari.. I wonder whats up with the city of Qundalon in the Anderfels far in the north near The Donarks. Nothing mentions them attacking or setting up in the Anderfels? I just assume its a Qunari city because of the name. But yeah whats up with that place?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That could just be a coincidence but it's a good catch. I did suspect that the Qunari may have possibly originated north of The Donarks rather than east of the Amaranthine Ocean and a city with that name could well be a Qunari outpost for all we know.