619 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

That entirely depends on how well the mages handle their newly gained freedom. If the resolutionists take chrage, and it all devovles into a blood mage nightmare, the commoners of Thedas will praise the Templars for being their protectors. And again the lyrium is only a problem if the Templars don't get the lyrium stores.

[TEWR]

or the populus might hate both the mages and the Templars if it becomes a war consisting of Blood mages vs. Ransacking drug addicts.

[dragonflight288]

The strategy I have repeatedly used for the mages winning the war would be the strategy I would adopt were I the leader.

All it takes is one hot-head on either side to turn popular opinion against the group.

I can easily see Thedas hating both sides at the end of the war.

[Sons of Horus]

I think the person who may be hated most of all is either Hawke or Anders. Hawke as famous as he is, even a seeker had to investigate to find out the truth of what happend in kirkwall that night (this I belive may point to rumours about him being involed). As for Anders if people find out that he blew up the chantry and bits of kirkwall I dont think many would welcome him (even mages).

[Sepewrath]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The strategy I have repeatedly used for the mages winning the war would be the strategy I would adopt were I the leader.

All it takes is one hot-head on either side to turn popular opinion against the group.

I can easily see Thedas hating both sides at the end of the war.

I don't think either side will have traditional leaders and this wont be a traditional war. I think both groups will be fragmented and trying to survive on their own, before being dragged into a large conflict.

[T3H Fish]

Sepewrath wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The strategy I have repeatedly used for the mages winning the war would be the strategy I would adopt were I the leader.

All it takes is one hot-head on either side to turn popular opinion against the group.

I can easily see Thedas hating both sides at the end of the war.

I don't think either side will have traditional leaders and this wont be a traditional war. I think both groups will be fragmented and trying to survive on their own, before being dragged into a large conflict.

I agree with this, there's too much fragmenation amonst both within the Templars and Mages where they all wouldn't be united under a single leader, but more likely in much smaller groups depending on affilitaions and general feelings towards not only each other, but their fellows in arms as well.

[Rifneno]

This is a work of fiction. Fiction very rarely end badly. And even when they do, some douche rewrites so it doesn't. The hero sometimes dies in the end, but the bad guys don't win.

Or to put in more local terms...
Chances Shepard will defeat the Reapers in a realistic scenario: 0%
Chances Shepard will defeat the Reapers in ME3: 100%

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

That entirely depends on how well the mages handle their newly gained freedom. If the resolutionists take chrage, and it all devovles into a blood mage nightmare, the commoners of Thedas will praise the Templars for being their protectors. And again the lyrium is only a problem if the Templars don't get the lyrium stores.

Lyrium stores go "boom" very easily (just ask a certain Dwarf from DAA) especially since almost all of it is stored as Dust.  I also know that the Templars lost control of all fourteen circles in one way or another in the epilog of DA2.

Ergo, no Lyrium stores for the Templars at least none from the towers.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I have a hard time imagining an entire division of Templars (one stationed at a Circle Tower) would join the mages, just as I have a hard time imagining an entire Circle would join the Templars.

I can easily see an entire division of Templars agree to subject themselves to the King rather than the Chantry (i.e. a Church of England situation) if it means they get to at least keep some of their duties protecting and guarding the mages.  I can easily see Fereldan Templars and Mages working together under King Alistair especially.

-Polaris

[TEWR]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I have a hard time imagining an entire division of Templars (one stationed at a Circle Tower) would join the mages, just as I have a hard time imagining an entire Circle would join the Templars.

I can easily see an entire division of Templars agree to subject themselves to the King rather than the Chantry (i.e. a Church of England situation) if it means they get to at least keep some of their duties protecting and guarding the mages.  I can easily see Fereldan Templars and Mages working together under King Alistair especially.

-Polaris

Indeed. It makes sense given what we've seen of Gregoir, Ferelden, Alistair, and everything else. It would make for something really interesting to see how was handled.

Especially considering the first Circle the mages would've gone to is Ferelden's, as that's the closest one to them since Starkhaven's Circle burned down to the ground.

[Sons of Horus]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Especially considering the first Circle the mages would've gone to is Ferelden's, as that's the closest one to them since Starkhaven's Circle burned down to the ground.

What make you think that Ferelden's are going to give aid to potental blood mages ? Especially after what happend with Uldred anyone ? Mages may be free there but i dont think they would look too kindly on a huge influx of bloodmages. Perhapse a parody of hawke trying to get into Kirkwall ?

I see this as one big problem for the first enchanter, Gregor, and the current ruler of Ferelden. Not to mention the Arls and the local Chantry. I dont mind if they try to go there but I feel they wouldn't be completey welcome or at least watched.

Modifié par Sons of Horus, 25 août 2011 - 02:29 .

[TEWR]

Sons of Horus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Especially considering the first Circle the mages would've gone to is Ferelden's, as that's the closest one to them since Starkhaven's Circle burned down to the ground.

What make you think that Ferelden's are going to give aid to potental blood mages ? Especially after what happend with Uldred anyone ? Mages may be free there but i dont think they would look too kindly on a huge influx of bloodmages. Perhapse a parody of hawke trying to get into Kirkwall ?

I see this as one big problem for the first enchanter, Gregor, and the current ruler of Ferelden. Not to mention the Arls and the local Chantry. I dont mind if they try to go there but I feel they wouldn't be completey welcome or at least watched.

Considering barely any of the mages actually used blood magic in the endgame, I don't see why they wouldn't take them.

We see a cinematic where mages used normal spells, all of the mages used normal spells to fight the Templars, and the only blood mage we saw in the endgame was sadly Orsino because the devs wanted another boss fight, despite it being the worst move. Oh and a blood mage on the docks. That's two blood mages in the endgame

And they're not so much going there to stay. They're going there to tell them what happened, and then heading out towards the other Circles. More than likely what would happen is that they'd all split up. Some would head to Ferelden's Circle to tell them and ask to stay there, while the rest would cross the border into Orlais and split up again.

But... if the Circles heard what happened, why the hell doesn't Cassandra know? Unless she was pretending not to know but she really knew and she wanted to know if what Varric said was the same since he knew the Champion.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 août 2011 - 02:47 .

[Sons of Horus]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Considering barely any of the mages actually used blood magic in the endgame, I don't see why they wouldn't take them.

We see a cinematic where mages used normal spells, all of the mages used normal spells to fight the Templars, and the only blood mage we saw in the endgame was sadly Orsino because the devs wanted another boss fight, despite it being the worst move. Oh and a blood mage on the docks. That's two blood mages in the endgame

And they're not so much going there to stay. They're going there to tell them what happened, and then heading out towards the other Circles. More than likely what would happen is that they'd all split up. Some would head to Ferelden's Circle to tell them and ask to stay there, while the rest would cross the border into Orlais and split up again.

But... if the Circles heard what happened, why the hell doesn't Cassandra know? Unless she was pretending not to know but she really knew and she wanted to know if what Varric said was the same since he knew the Champion.

True but think about it, Gregore and the first enchanter are not just gona let them wander around (they are from kirkwall with a bad reputaion for bloodmagic, if not their stupidty) , they would be intergated / asked what happend then a serious meeting would decided their fate, ie the mages within the tower, gregor trying to piece togather what has happend (like the trial with Uldred).

Modifié par Sons of Horus, 25 août 2011 - 02:56 .

[Dave of Canada]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

But where would the Templars get their money?

Devout Andrastian Nobles / Royals who currently share a contract with Bhelen.

[Mike3207]

@ Dave:

I actually think both Anora and Cousland would give the mages a great deal of support to the mages. Anora goes so far as to try and give the mages their freedom from the Templars if a mage warden does the ultimate sacrifice. That combined with the Warden sparing the Ferelden mages leads me to believe they would give the most support.

I also believe Morrigan and her son would come back to Fereldan and seek to give the mages some help in the war.

[IanPolaris]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

But where would the Templars get their money?

Devout Andrastian Nobles / Royals who currently share a contract with Bhelen.

Actually while some Orlesian nobles would give the Templars money (and perhaps a handful of others), I don't see Bhelen siding with the Templars.  I think initially Bhelen stays out of it and then sees what each side can offer him, and honestly the mages can offer Bhelen much more (since the Dwarves need magical support badly in the deep roads against magic using Darkspawn) than the Templars can.  Given the lack of Lyrium, I easily see the Templars overstaying their "welcome" very rapidly since a conventional army such as theirs would almost certainly be reduced to "foraging" for supplies, and lest anyone forget, "foraging for supplies" by the late midaeval/early rennnaissance times was shorthand for "pillage, rape, and burn as much countryside as possible" (and not necessarily in that order).

On the other hand, mages do have unique abilities to offer others in trade, and there are so few of them, that they don't need to "forage" in the same way the Templars will.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 25 août 2011 - 03:51 .

[IanPolaris]

[dp]

[TEWR]

Sons of Horus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Considering barely any of the mages actually used blood magic in the endgame, I don't see why they wouldn't take them.

We see a cinematic where mages used normal spells, all of the mages used normal spells to fight the Templars, and the only blood mage we saw in the endgame was sadly Orsino because the devs wanted another boss fight, despite it being the worst move. Oh and a blood mage on the docks. That's two blood mages in the endgame

And they're not so much going there to stay. They're going there to tell them what happened, and then heading out towards the other Circles. More than likely what would happen is that they'd all split up. Some would head to Ferelden's Circle to tell them and ask to stay there, while the rest would cross the border into Orlais and split up again.

But... if the Circles heard what happened, why the hell doesn't Cassandra know? Unless she was pretending not to know but she really knew and she wanted to know if what Varric said was the same since he knew the Champion.

True but think about it, Gregore and the first enchanter are not just gona let them wander around (they are from kirkwall with a bad reputaion for bloodmagic, if not their stupidty) , they would be intergated / asked what happend then a serious meeting would decided their fate, ie the mages within the tower, gregor trying to piece togather what has happend (like the trial with Uldred).

News like that will eventually spread. People from Kirkwall who weren't mages may have fled to Ferelden. Hell some Templars from Kirkwall's Circle may have gone with the mages because they're allies. Once it becomes clear they're telling the truth, what do you think Gregoir and Irving (or the new FE) would do? They'd let them live and possibly question them.

Hell some of the Templars that sided with the Mages and vouched for the story they told may have had access to the records of Kirkwalls incredibly thin Veil. Or may have heard it secondhand. Once it becomes clear that the Hellmouth was what caused the increased number of blood mages and abominations, then these mages aren't really to blame now are they?

Dave of Canada wrote...

Devout Andrastian Nobles / Royals who currently share a contract with Bhelen.

IIRC, the contracts weren't with nobles, but with regular merchants. Now if those merchants were in the service of nobles, you have a good point. But I doubt they all have contracts with nobles.

I could be wrong though. Admittedly this is one thing I'm unsure of in how it would work.

Wulfram wrote...

Carried out by Tranquil, not mages.

Not quite. Formari mages are able to make various enchanted items and sell them. Look at Urzara's Tooth that Solivitus, a non-Tranquil Formari mage, was able to make.

Enchanted doesn't just mean lyrium runes implanted in something I think

[dragonflight288]

I mean, my mage became a scholar in rune-crafting, even if he couldn't actually fold the lyrium and runes into the weapons and armor. But he could make the runes so a skilled enchanter wouldn't need to worry about it.

[TEWR]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I mean, my mage became a scholar in rune-crafting, even if he couldn't actually fold the lyrium and runes into the weapons and armor. But he could make the runes so a skilled enchanter wouldn't need to worry about it.

Indeed. If you make the right types of runes you can make a profit. Imagine what Dwarven weapons could do if they were enchanted with the more powerful runes.

[Shadow Fox]

I see the Seekers as becoming the heroes of the "war" if DA3 turns out like I think it will.

[IanPolaris]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I see the Seekers as becoming the heroes of the "war" if DA3 turns out like I think it will.

After they were so incompetant and dropped the ball so badly in DA2?  That almost kills ANY desire to even give DA3 a chance.

-Polaris

[Sepewrath]

Rifneno wrote...

This is a work of fiction. Fiction very rarely end badly. And even when they do, some douche rewrites so it doesn't. The hero sometimes dies in the end, but the bad guys don't win.

Or to put in more local terms...
Chances Shepard will defeat the Reapers in a realistic scenario: 0%
Chances Shepard will defeat the Reapers in ME3: 100%

Hey Shepard will win with guts and hardwork

Mike Smith wrote...
I actually think both Anora and Cousland
would give the mages a great deal of support to the mages. Anora goes so
far as to try and give the mages their freedom from the Templars if a
mage warden does the ultimate sacrifice. That combined with the Warden
sparing the Ferelden mages leads me to believe they would give the most
support.
.

And I don't know why so many people think Anora would side with mages, that epilogue stuff doesn't count, but even if you wanted to, she does something for a mage who save her country and put her on the throne, I don't see her going out of her for mages in general. In fact, I would see Anora, trying to keep Ferelden out of it.

[IanPolaris]

Sepewrath wrote...

And I don't know why so many people think Anora would side with mages, that epilogue stuff doesn't count, but even if you wanted to, she does something for a mage who save her country and put her on the throne, I don't see her going out of her for mages in general. In fact, I would see Anora, trying to keep Ferelden out of it.

Anora is her father's daughter, and Loghain trusted and liked the Chantry about as much as I do (which is not at all).  Like her father, Anora pretty clearly equates Chantry political power to Orlesian political power, and she'd do anything to keep that out of Fereldan (she even makes a point of saying say) up to and including allying herself with the mages.  That is particularly easy to see if she is married to Alistair and/or granted the circle it's freedom at the behest of the mage-Warden (which she will do whether or not she can stand the warden or not).

The Orlesians are hated in Fereldan especially by a certain segment of the nobility (which Anora is a part of), and the Fereldan nobles in particular associate the Chantry with Orlais at least on Political matters such as this.

-Polaris

[Sepewrath]

And they could sit back and watch the Chantry fall, they don't need to intervene and drag their weakened country into a massive conflict. The Ferelden Circle has more than likely fallen just like the rest, the Templar's are probably gone, the Chantry is already finished in Ferelden. All they need do is not allow them to re-establish themselves. But siding with mages, means they have to fight the war, that is not just going to be against the Chantry.