619 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

I have a hard time imagining a lore correct dwarf spirit warrior. The game allows you to make one though.

No one mentioned Spirit Warriors. Alistair outright offers to teach the Warden, dwarf or not, how to be a templar. The same cannot be said of Spirit Warrior.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No one. I seriously doubt dwarves can learn them.

Dwarf Warden can.  So can Oghren.

In-game optional specializations translate into lore now? It seems that Wynne really can embrace blood magic, then.

In this particular instance it does. If Dwarves were unable to be Templars, how would you go about explaining that a Dwarf Warden and Oghren can be Templars?

I have a hard time imagining a lore correct dwarf spirit warrior. The game allows you to make one though.

IIRC, Dwarves eventually can enter the Fade when they become surface Dwarves.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 août 2011 - 07:28 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Dwarves loses their magic resistance, they don't lose their isolation from the Fade.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Dwarves loses their magic resistance, they don't lose their isolation from the Fade.

They may not be able to enter the Fade naturally, but they can still enter it if forced. The Sloth Abomination and the First did this.

So they're not completely isolated from the Fade. More like lost from it. I imagine the Primeval Thaig Dwarves could once enter the Fade naturally (especially their mages)

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 août 2011 - 07:32 .

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Dwarves loses their magic resistance, they don't lose their isolation from the Fade.

You don't know that.  However, Dwarves aren't completely isolated from the fade regardless.  They simply don't enter it when they dream.

-Polaris

[dragonflight288]

Ohgren in Awakening

Ohgren: The fade? We're in the Fade!!! That's where dream isn't it?
Warden: Yes.
Ohgren: Dwarves shouldn't be here! Dwarves don't dream. We sleep like the Stone!

[IanPolaris]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Ohgren in Awakening

Ohgren: The fade? We're in the Fade!!! That's where dream isn't it?
Warden: Yes.
Ohgren: Dwarves shouldn't be here! Dwarves don't dream. We sleep like the Stone!

You are taking Oghren's word on this?  Sigrun isn't put off by the fade but if that were true, she should be.  That tells me that Dwarves DO dream (just not in the fade usually) and Dwarves are not totally cut off from the fade.

-Polaris

[Rifneno]

"Dwarves do not enter the Fade when they dream, yes. This doesn't mean they are barred from the Fade (as is evident from the fact that a demon can force them in), they simply do not go there naturally.

There's a very good reason for why they don't enter the Fade. I'm not going to tell you what that is, but I will say that it has nothing to do with their resistance to magic. Rather the reverse: their resistance to magic comes from the fact that they don't enter the Fade -- which also allows them to mine dangerous lyrium better than other races would.

Will we ever discuss the reason they don't enter the Fade? Possibly. If that makes you pout, then sorry." - David Gaider

That's as close as I've seen to definitive information on the dwarf/Fade issue. Which isn't to say it clarifies much, but...

[TEWR]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Ohgren in Awakening

Ohgren: The fade? We're in the Fade!!! That's where dream isn't it?
Warden: Yes.
Ohgren: Dwarves shouldn't be here! Dwarves don't dream. We sleep like the Stone!

He's just a bit shocked to be in the Fade, that's all. It shouldn't be taken as definitive truth, especially when Gaider said they do dream. Out of curiosity, does he say anything about it in Origins when you go there?

Also, didn't Caridin's Journal say he had dreams of what to do?

[Wulfram]

Doesn't Oghren have a normal dream in Awakening? Which initially seems like it's a darkspawn vision?

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

Doesn't Oghren have a normal dream in Awakening? Which initially seems like it's a darkspawn vision?

Yea he does. A broodmother with Hespith's face let out a thousand Darkspawn that started pouring Oghren tea and asking him to teach them how to read and going "Where's the baby?".

[Conduit0]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Ohgren in Awakening

Ohgren: The fade? We're in the Fade!!! That's where dream isn't it?
Warden: Yes.
Ohgren: Dwarves shouldn't be here! Dwarves don't dream. We sleep like the Stone!

He's just a bit shocked to be in the Fade, that's all. It shouldn't be taken as definitive truth, especially when Gaider said they do dream. Out of curiosity, does he say anything about it in Origins when you go there?

Also, didn't Caridin's Journal say he had dreams of what to do?

940, 45th day, 5th year of the reign of King Valtor: I have done it. The vision the ancestors gave me has come to fruition.

Thats the first little bit from Cairdin's journal, vision/dream, close enough for me.

[Urazz]

Actually wouldn't some countries essentially support mage freedoms and the like so they could get mages in their services and for a chance to weaken the chantry's control over their country? Hell, isn't Fereldan pretty much getting set up to become one of the next big powers in Thedas by their being alot more tolerant of mages than elsewhere?

[Warden Majere]

I think that either A) Flemth will lead the mages B)Morrigan will lead the mages or C) The OGB will be a powerful bad**** mage and he will lead them to victory.

[Sepewrath]

IanPolaris wrote...
Point. Missing it.  The Orlesians are threatening Fereldan (proabably because it's so weak from the Blight).  That weakness and Orlesian avarice applies no matter who is on the Throne (Alistair or Anora).  Anora is facing an unenviable power balance against Orlais and she (as her father's daugher) regards teh Chantry as an arm of Orlais anyways, so she almost have to be criminally negligant NOT to grab the once source of power readily available to her that could even the odds or even possibly tilt them in her favor and that would be magic.  She wouldn't care about the morality or dangers one bit....any more than Gen Loghain would have (and Gen Loghain was also prepared to free the tower.....that was Uldred was offered....for exactly the same reasons).

-Polaris

If Orlais has been dragged into a war, then they are no threat to Ferelden anymore. And Loghain was ready to free the tower so that he could have guaranteed support, that he didn't have to take by force, which was not the case with the Bannorn, not because he loved mages and hated the Chantry. If Orlais is already facing a war on multiple fronts, Ferelden has no reason to interject, regardless of the outcome, they will be in a greatly weakened state, while Ferelden is recovering its strength, all but eliminating the threat for Orlais.

If it jumps into a war in its current condition, it would only increase the chances of it being conquered. Gen Loghain would know that too, that is why he didn't want the Orlesians in Ferelden because after the country was ravaged, and weakened, how could he assure they would leave? I don't see Anora marching into a situation like that. 

[IanPolaris]

No you are wrong about that. Orlais (or at least much of Orlais' high nobility) is pushing for a War with Fereldan and that's true no matter who is on the throne. As far as Orlais is concerned Fereldan is easy pickings especially weakened after the blight.

-Polaris

[dragonflight288]

This may be interesting. Oghren in the Fade in Origins.

[CitizenThom]

On one hand, I would say the Mage's chances are good. A prepared mage is many times stronger than most warriors not wearing the Juggernaut Armor set, and dual wielding rogues are probably too busy looting to be backstabbing unsuspecting mages.

On the other hand, the conflict is much more complex for Mages than it is for the Chantry or the Qun. Mages have various philosophical differences in how magic should be practiced, and various motivations in developing their magic talents. And, as if conflicting factions wasn't enough of an obstacle for the Mages, the Tevinters on the sidelines probably don't want the Mages surviving the war without much cost and forming an equally powerful rival empire sans Qunari invaders. It can be expected that Tevinters will sell various equipment and substances to the Chantry just to make sure the two sides are deadlocked as much as possible... that whichever side wins the conflict, it won't be a threat to Tevinter for at least a century.

[CrimsonZephyr]

IanPolaris wrote...

No you are wrong about that. Orlais (or at least much of Orlais' high nobility) is pushing for a War with Fereldan and that's true no matter who is on the throne. As far as Orlais is concerned Fereldan is easy pickings especially weakened after the blight.

-Polaris

And if the Chantry is falling apart in Orlais, that's actually the perfect time for Ferelden to start asserting its independence politically from any organization which is Orlesian in origin, aftermath of the Blight or not.

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Ohgren in Awakening

Ohgren: The fade? We're in the Fade!!! That's where dream isn't it?
Warden: Yes.
Ohgren: Dwarves shouldn't be here! Dwarves don't dream. We sleep like the Stone!

You are taking Oghren's word on this?  Sigrun isn't put off by the fade but if that were true, she should be.  That tells me that Dwarves DO dream (just not in the fade usually) and Dwarves are not totally cut off from the fade.

-Polaris

how are we to conclude which companions are a reliable source and which
aren't? I'd say Alistair isn't a reliable source =P Just because Oghren
is a drunk doesn't mean what he says cant be taken into account

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 26 août 2011 - 07:04 .

[IanPolaris]

XxDeonxX wrote...

how are we to conclude which companions are a reliable source and which aren't? I'd say Alistair isn't a reliable source =P Just because Oghren is a drunk doesn't mean what he says cant be taken into account

How about David Gaider who is quoted in this thread.  Dwarves can enter the fade but don't (and don't dream in the fade).  Thus Dwarves are NOT isolated from the fade.

-Polaris

[Conduit0]

IanPolaris wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

how are we to conclude which companions are a reliable source and which aren't? I'd say Alistair isn't a reliable source =P Just because Oghren is a drunk doesn't mean what he says cant be taken into account

How about David Gaider who is quoted in this thread.  Dwarves can enter the fade but don't (and don't dream in the fade).  Thus Dwarves are NOT isolated from the fade.

-Polaris

I think a better way to put is, dwarves don't enter the fade naturally, but they can be dragged in unnaturally.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Which could be described as naturally isolated from the Fade... Only an unnatural happening can drag a Dwarf into the Fade.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yea he does. A broodmother with Hespith's face let out a thousand Darkspawn that started pouring Oghren tea and asking him to teach them how to read and going "Where's the baby?".

Gah! Damn you, I had nearly forgotten about that.

Urazz wrote...

Actually wouldn't some countries essentially support mage freedoms and the like so they could get mages in their services and for a chance to weaken the chantry's control over their country? Hell, isn't Fereldan pretty much getting set up to become one of the next big powers in Thedas by their being alot more tolerant of mages than elsewhere?

Yes. But I think the general notion that most of the community has about how the rest of Thedas views mages isn't on the most solid ground. For most countries of Thedas all we have to go by is a few codex entries and maybe 20 seconds of dialogue from a companion. Even that is mostly general information about the country and nothing specific on mages. Maybe the rest of Thedas does hate mages. But we haven't seen enough to make a reasonable assumption either way.

Raistlin the Warden wrote...

I think that either A) Flemth will lead the mages B)Morrigan will lead the mages or C) The OGB will be a powerful bad**** mage and he will lead them to victory.

I don't see any of those 3 getting involved. Morrigan would only do it if she directly benefited a great deal or if the mage's enemies were also a threat to her. Since she can pass into another dimension they don't even know exist, it's safe to say the latter isn't true. Flemeth is a true enigma, but she seems to prefer pulling the strings from behind the scenes. As for the OGB, they confirmed he doesn't exist if the Warden didn't do the ritual so he can't be crucial to the plot. Besides, at his age he's probably spending his time wondering why he's starting to grow hair in his no-no place rather than focusing on world events.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Which could be described as naturally isolated from the Fade... Only an unnatural happening can drag a Dwarf into the Fade.

But since a Dwarf is not forbidden from entering the fade, there is no ipso facto reason they can't learn abilities that affect the fade connections of others (like many templar abilities).

-Polaris