619 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

Would a circle in Orzommar really need templars? The underground dwarves has a high magic resitance and there are a lot of good and capable fighters. Somehow I think that they could deal with abominations as well as templars.

[IanPolaris]

esper wrote...

Would a circle in Orzommar really need templars? The underground dwarves has a high magic resitance and there are a lot of good and capable fighters. Somehow I think that they could deal with abominations as well as templars.

Indeed.  I also think the 'natural' rate of abominations is a lot lower than the Chantry would have us believe.  Certainly Bhelen lept at the chance to have his own circle when Dagna came with the offer.  He wasn't very worried about it apparently.

-Polaris

[Torax]

IanPolaris wrote...

esper wrote...

Would a circle in Orzommar really need templars? The underground dwarves has a high magic resitance and there are a lot of good and capable fighters. Somehow I think that they could deal with abominations as well as templars.

Indeed.  I also think the 'natural' rate of abominations is a lot lower than the Chantry would have us believe.  Certainly Bhelen lept at the chance to have his own circle when Dagna came with the offer.  He wasn't very worried about it apparently.

-Polaris

Aye and from a defense against the Darkspawn it's a win/win economically. More availability for the Trade of enchanted goods among the merchants. Allows Lyrium to be used more for crafting as opposed to explosives as well. Add the fact that as a people the dwarves have the resistance to magic. There is no negative to a Circle being among them compared to others. More benefits except for angering the Chantry of course.

Modifié par Torax, 26 août 2011 - 04:52 .

[dragonflight288]

Ergo, the mages have a better chance than many would initially think. The mighty templars are not all-powerful.

[Jestina]

Dwarves don't need magic. Only thing mages are good for is coughing up the gold for lyrium.

[Teddie Sage]

50%. Anything's possible in that series...

[TEWR]

while we're talking about mages, anyone wonder why you can find a few Templar corpses in the Brecilian Forest during "Nature of the Beast"? Because I can certainly think of a few reasons.

[IanPolaris]

Jestina wrote...

Dwarves don't need magic. Only thing mages are good for is coughing up the gold for lyrium.

You ask a Dwarven Battle Regitment in the Deep Roads, or a Company of the Legion of the Dead if they would like magic support, and I think the answer will be, "Are you effing crazy, of course we do!"

Dwarves do without magic because they have to not because they want to.

-Polaris

[Melca36]

The Mages have a better chance for this one reason alone........ people use them for healing.

There are people who will side with mages because they don't trust physicians yet.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You realize that mages don't all know healing spells, yes?

[CrimsonZephyr]

Melca36 wrote...

The Mages have a better chance for this one reason alone........ people use them for healing.

There are people who will side with mages because they don't trust physicians yet.

And without that healing, the Templars might have more numbers, but they don't have the awesome powers that bring their soldiers back to battle readiness immediately. Eventually, mundane things like battle wounds will start affecting them. They aren't necessarily guaranteed victory if half their men are dying from gangrenous wounds while their adversaries are healing themselves in the field.

^Perhaps, but there's a greater chance of them knowing healing than, say, firestorm. If you were a twitchy, paranoid KC, what would you rather mages know? How to heal or how to rain death about a crowd of people from ten meters away?

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 27 août 2011 - 02:14 .

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You realize that mages don't all know healing spells, yes?

A lot do, and it's apparently a very easy and comon spell to learn for a mage.  Not only that but mages can do a lot of things that are either not realistically possible or very difficult without mage.  The mages have a natural source of income.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

A lot DON'T know healing spells. Creation is the hardest school to learn, thus healing spells are amongst the rarest spells.

[EmperorSahlertz]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

The Mages have a better chance for this one reason alone........ people use them for healing.

There are people who will side with mages because they don't trust physicians yet.

And without that healing, the Templars might have more numbers, but they don't have the awesome powers that bring their soldiers back to battle readiness immediately. Eventually, mundane things like battle wounds will start affecting them. They aren't necessarily guaranteed victory if half their men are dying from gangrenous wounds while their adversaries are healing themselves in the field.

^Perhaps, but there's a greater chance of them knowing healing than, say, firestorm. If you were a twitchy, paranoid KC, what would you rather mages know? How to heal or how to rain death about a crowd of people from ten meters away?

Wounds that Templars won't be getting, since they got a resistance to magic, which probably outsrips even the Dwarves.

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

Jestina wrote...

Dwarves don't need magic. Only thing mages are good for is coughing up the gold for lyrium.

You ask a Dwarven Battle Regitment in the Deep Roads, or a Company of the Legion of the Dead if they would like magic support, and I think the answer will be, "Are you effing crazy, of course we do!"

Dwarves do without magic because they have to not because they want to.

-Polaris

I think being locked away down in Orzammar the dwarves dont fully understand magic or its value. They'd probably say something along the lines of "Pfft, Magic is a surfacer trick. We dont need it" I think one of them actually does say something along those lines, I remember hearing it somewhere. 

But thats not because they'd find it useless or anything, just that they dont seem to understand it or know its value

[CrimsonZephyr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

A lot DON'T know healing spells. Creation is the hardest school to learn, thus healing spells are amongst the rarest spells.

The official codex entry says hardest to master, which would imply having the entire spell tree at their disposal. Heal is a first tier spell. Even being moderately skilled in that school wouldn't preclude a mage from knowing it.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wounds that Templars won't be getting, since they got a resistance to magic, which probably outsrips even the Dwarves.

Bull.  Before WWI, the number one killer of soldiers in the field was disease.  The second was exposure.  The Templars are hideously vunerable to attrition just from indicental wounds (and wound infection) alone.

The mages are almost completely exempt as is any army that uses mages as part of it's logistical support train.  That alone makes a HUGE difference and a mere handful of mages can singlehandedly reverse the course of a seige without a single blow being struck.

-Polaris

[CrimsonZephyr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

The Mages have a better chance for this one reason alone........ people use them for healing.

There are people who will side with mages because they don't trust physicians yet.

And without that healing, the Templars might have more numbers, but they don't have the awesome powers that bring their soldiers back to battle readiness immediately. Eventually, mundane things like battle wounds will start affecting them. They aren't necessarily guaranteed victory if half their men are dying from gangrenous wounds while their adversaries are healing themselves in the field.

^Perhaps, but there's a greater chance of them knowing healing than, say, firestorm. If you were a twitchy, paranoid KC, what would you rather mages know? How to heal or how to rain death about a crowd of people from ten meters away?

Wounds that Templars won't be getting, since they got a resistance to magic, which probably outsrips even the Dwarves.

So Templars can completely shake off getting pelted with scores of fireballs now, before they're in range to use either swords or ANY templar powers? They're not impervious to magic, just resistant, and there's a reason they rely on numbers to hunt mages.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 27 août 2011 - 02:20 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Where a spell is placed in the talent tree, shouldn't be interpreted as how hard it is to learn in the lore. I'd venture a guess it is harder to learn how to encase yourself in stone armor, than it is to petrify a certain target. Yet stone armor is before petrify in the talent tree.

[IanPolaris]

XxDeonxX wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Jestina wrote...

Dwarves don't need magic. Only thing mages are good for is coughing up the gold for lyrium.

You ask a Dwarven Battle Regitment in the Deep Roads, or a Company of the Legion of the Dead if they would like magic support, and I think the answer will be, "Are you effing crazy, of course we do!"

Dwarves do without magic because they have to not because they want to.

-Polaris

I think being locked away down in Orzammar the dwarves dont fully understand magic or its value. They'd probably say something along the lines of "Pfft, Magic is a surfacer trick. We dont need it" I think one of them actually does say something along those lines, I remember hearing it somewhere. 

But thats not because they'd find it useless or anything, just that they dont seem to understand it or know its value

They see it on the surface though....and I think the Dwarven soldiers in the deep roads would gladly accept any edge against the Darkspawn....even surfacer tricks (but may be too proud to admit it them being Dwarves and all).  The point is a King Bhelen (since Harrowmount would shut Orzammar from everyone) is quick to see the advantages of magic (see Dagna).

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wounds that Templars won't be getting, since they got a resistance to magic, which probably outsrips even the Dwarves.

Bull.  Before WWI, the number one killer of soldiers in the field was disease.  The second was exposure.  The Templars are hideously vunerable to attrition just from indicental wounds (and wound infection) alone.

The mages are almost completely exempt as is any army that uses mages as part of it's logistical support train.  That alone makes a HUGE difference and a mere handful of mages can singlehandedly reverse the course of a seige without a single blow being struck.

-Polaris

WW1 soldiers was victims to numerous magical attacks now? I don't recall that from my history lesson.

Matter of fact is, Templars are highly resistant to magic. Mages do magical damage, if any. Templars resist that, and get close. Mages die. Mages are not brawlers, Templars are. Unless the mages can overwhelm the Templars with sheer magical power to exceed the Templars resistance, the Templar will go through the fight unscathed.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Where a spell is placed in the talent tree, shouldn't be interpreted as how hard it is to learn in the lore. I'd venture a guess it is harder to learn how to encase yourself in stone armor, than it is to petrify a certain target. Yet stone armor is before petrify in the talent tree.

In all versions of magic, healing is a first tier spell.  That means it should be fairly easy to learn.  The school itself may be hard to master, but that's a different issue.

In addition, you don't NEED many healing mages (and esp Spirit Healers) to make a huge difference in an army's non-combat casualty rate (potentially taking it down to either zero or near zero...a HUGE advantage in pre-modern armies).

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Jestina wrote...

Dwarves don't need magic. Only thing mages are good for is coughing up the gold for lyrium.

You ask a Dwarven Battle Regitment in the Deep Roads, or a Company of the Legion of the Dead if they would like magic support, and I think the answer will be, "Are you effing crazy, of course we do!"

Dwarves do without magic because they have to not because they want to.

-Polaris

I think being locked away down in Orzammar the dwarves dont fully understand magic or its value. They'd probably say something along the lines of "Pfft, Magic is a surfacer trick. We dont need it" I think one of them actually does say something along those lines, I remember hearing it somewhere. 

But thats not because they'd find it useless or anything, just that they dont seem to understand it or know its value

They see it on the surface though....and I think the Dwarven soldiers in the deep roads would gladly accept any edge against the Darkspawn....even surfacer tricks (but may be too proud to admit it them being Dwarves and all).  The point is a King Bhelen (since Harrowmount would shut Orzammar from everyone) is quick to see the advantages of magic (see Dagna).

-Polaris

IIRC Harrowmount takes the Circle aswell, though both are just an epilogue slide, and neither is directly referenced again, which leaves their lore status in a grey area.

[IanPolaris]

Emp,

You seem to think that all attacks on templars will be magically based as will all injuries. I'm sorry but that shows a blatent ignorance of pretty much all pre-modern military history. Before modern times, more soldiers would die of malnutrition, privation, disease, and incidental injuries rather than actual combat and Templars are just as vunerable to those as anyone else. An army supported by magic however, is not nearly so.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Where a spell is placed in the talent tree, shouldn't be interpreted as how hard it is to learn in the lore. I'd venture a guess it is harder to learn how to encase yourself in stone armor, than it is to petrify a certain target. Yet stone armor is before petrify in the talent tree.

In all versions of magic, healing is a first tier spell.  That means it should be fairly easy to learn.  The school itself may be hard to master, but that's a different issue.

In addition, you don't NEED many healing mages (and esp Spirit Healers) to make a huge difference in an army's non-combat casualty rate (potentially taking it down to either zero or near zero...a HUGE advantage in pre-modern armies).

-Polaris

Anders was exhausted after healing a kid for some undisclosed wound (though juding from the kids parents, it was probably a cart which overturned on the lad), which should give an indicator that in a battle with over 1000 wounded, a healing mage isn't going to make a world of a difference.