98 réponses à ce sujet

[Harid]

I wish Avelone was working for a more talented developer. He must be an owner for Obsidian or something, though, because I don't see him leaving there.

It's just that Obsidian is just inept at completing games. . .makes it impossible for Obsidian to press Bioware out of their current "bad romance novel" level writing kick.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I consider Alpha Protcol to be miles ahead of ME2, DA:O and DA2 in terms of gameplay, since at least you aren't killing almost all the ****ing game.

Hell you can complete a LARGE portion of AP with just stealth and non-lethal hits.

That's the only way I could enjoy the gameplay, yes.

[Sepewrath]

Harid wrote...
My problem is the frequent use of that illusion, and then claiming you make choices matter in spite of it.  In Orzammar you didn't really do anything, playing either side lead in the end to two inconsequental choices.


They have stories of people being the active manipulators.  All they have to to is build a story around that.  It's not that difficult. 

Once again, though, I don't get this you would still be the rube on many occassions stuff from you, when the issue I have with being the rube is situations like the Throne of Bhaal, or Dragon Age 2, when you are the rube the entire game, and only 'win' through brute force or circumstance that you had no active control in.

You don't deserve anything being a giant sucker for the entire game.

What I mean is, would the game be any fun to you, if you could just outsmart everyone, make them all fight each other, while you sit back and watch? These games are designed around combat scenarios, how would they explain you getting into combat scenarios if you spend the whole game as the manipulator? I know if I was manipulating people, I would never once have to draw a sword.

Look at Loghain, he didn't do anything until the end of the game, because he was the manipulator.  If your constantly strong arming people so that there is an excuse to fight, how is that different than what is happening now? You would be nothing but a brute, who solves all their problems with violence and someone like that, is usually the sucker as you say.

Yeah I guess they games aren't for you, try something like 999 or Catherine. that might be up your alley. Basically games, that downplay combat, for a more cerebral approach. There is nothing wrong with what their doing, its just not your style I guess.

[Harid]

Sepewrath wrote...
What I mean is, would the game be any fun to you, if you could just outsmart everyone, make them all fight each other, while you sit back and watch? These games are designed around combat scenarios, how would they explain you getting into combat scenarios if you spend the whole game as the manipulator? I know if I was manipulating people, I would never once have to draw a sword.

Look at Loghain, he didn't do anything until the end of the game, because he was the manipulator.  If your constantly strong arming people so that there is an excuse to fight, how is that different than what is happening now? You would be nothing but a brute, who solves all their problems with violence and someone like that, is usually the sucker as you say.

Yeah I guess they games aren't for you, try something like 999 or Catherine. that might be up your alley. Basically games, that downplay combat, for a more cerebral approach. There is nothing wrong with what their doing, its just not your style I guess.

http://i55.tinypic.com/xnt4l5.gif%20

It's like. . .you are making things up to justify Bioware's poor writing.

I am not stating that I want to outsmart everyone.  I am not stating that I want to set up a Thanatos Gambit in every quest in the game.  I am not acting as if I want to completely ignore all combat in the game.  I'm the guy that wants a Tantavale Arena DLC so I can fight as much as I damn well please.  I actually enjoy the combat in this game, largely.  The issue is that the way Bioware writes quests now, you are always  the dog to your masters.  There are no times when this is otherwise, you don't come up with any contingencies to circumvent or avoid betrayal, you literally walk into traps again and again and again to the point that any sane person would question your leadership because of it.

Because of those reasons, I would not like to be a player placed in an enviornment, like Orzammarr, like the Imperium, like Orlais, where we are told that betrayal and political machinations occur all of the time, that these places are based on that type of world view, and you are the dog to some master; my PC came up in this world, and if this character hasn't also been playing the game all of this time, how did this player avoid death all of these years.  How does a Dwarven Aeducan get so easily duped by Bhelen when he should have been exposed to such machinations since the day s/he was born?  How do you justify your character being such a sucker in a world s/he should by all intents and purposes, know better?  Because Bioware is too lazy to see this in their world building and build their quests around it?  Because Bioware doesn't want to try?  If they don't want to try, I don't want to be there.  I don't see how anyone else would want it either.

I do not want to be able to parlay with the last boss; if the last bosses convictions were that weak I don't think they would have gotten to the place of "last boss."  What I want is if I am told that I am coming up in a backstabbing, self centered, manipulating nation, I best be able to do the same SOMETIME in the game, rather than like I've stated, be the dog to my masters.  I should be the master.  Not Dragon Age 2, you're the master because this is a power fantasy kind of master, more so the kind of master that through the game is shown to be one worthy of the title.  It's what that enviornment would do to you. If I am a dog, who would follow a dog?  Why would people listen to that dog when your master falls?  Why wouldn't people defend that master from his dog biting the hand that feeds him (so to speak?)  These issues, and others, are never explained or justified.

When you obtain power, the game should show you how you deserved that power.  And I personally don't feel that bowing and scraping and being duped or lead through a whole game makes you (the main character) look like you deserve anything.  People don't stumble into power, generally, and those who do don't usually last long.  The people who gain power actively desired it and make moves to obtain it.  That is all I ask for.  And because Bioware has yet to prove to me that they wish to write such scenarios, I don't want any part of Orzamarr, the Imperium, or Orlais.

Modifié par Harid, 25 août 2011 - 07:25 .

[Massman123]

I ardently believe that what makes the Qunari and Tevinter Imperium intriguing is the mystery that they are shrouded in. I fear that if Bioware was to develop the backstories of the Qunari and Tevinter Imperium too rapidly we would inevitably be disappointed. Sometimes it is simply better to have elements in a story that are left up to our own imagination.

As an example of this phenomenon, I would point to the Darkspawn. Prior to some of the revelations that come from studying and exploring the lore of the world of Dragon Age, the Darkspawn seem like a simple force of wreckless, thoughtless, evil. They blindly follow the calling of the archdemon and operate as a hivemind with no goal other than to pillage and kill. We begin to get some hints and insight into their origins, motivation, and possible culture as we explore the deep roads. However, the story finds a fine balance of leaving the darkspawn to be ambiguous enough for us to be left up to our devices when it comes to imagining some of their mysterious ways.

As a closing thought, I would like all of us to reflect on how disappointed we were when the star wars lore was expanded to explain that the "Force" was the result of Mitichlorians.

[Rifneno]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I consider Alpha Protcol to be miles ahead of ME2, DA:O and DA2 in terms of gameplay, since at least you aren't killing almost all the ****ing game.

Hell you can complete a LARGE portion of AP with just stealth and non-lethal hits.

Sounds like Deus Ex. Friend kept prodding me to play that, saying how incredible it is you can go through the entire game only killing one person. Not a bad model, but I don't think it appeals much to the general gaming audience. We like to kill stuff. Even in games that have nothing to do with killing. Who here has played SimCity and hasn't inflicted an armageddon-like flurry of disasters on a major metropolis just for the lulz?

Harid wrote...

Woah. Woah! Steve Austin gets annoyed with a woman and doesn't just beat the hell out of her?! Where did you find such a thing?!

[Harid]

Rifneno wrote...




Woah. Woah! Steve Austin gets annoyed with a woman and doesn't just beat the hell out of her?! Where did you find such a thing?!

Recent Tough Enough.  Apparently she didn't bring him his beer fast enough.  (Realistically she just said something really stupid)

Modifié par Harid, 25 août 2011 - 06:59 .

[Sepewrath]

Harid wrote...
Because of those reasons, I would not like to be a player placed in an enviornment, like Orzammarr, like the Imperium, like Orlais, where we are told that betrayal and political machinations occur all of the time, that these places are based on that type of world view, and you are the dog to some master; my PC came up in this world, and if this character hasn't also been playing the game all of this time, how did this player avoid death all of these years. 

You keep saying this, but what is the rate on this? Every 1 out of every 3 quest, you get to make the calls? Its like you said, you shouldn't be able to talk down the final boss or manipulate them, why not? How is the final boss different from Bhelen, outside of the fact, that their the last person you come into contact with? Bhelen wouldn't have weak convictions, he would have been just as steeped in political intrigue as your character, the same pass your given to the final boss can be applied to any and everyone.

Lets say your in Orlais, your not going to be a 50yr old noble, who has been doing this for 35yrs, your going to be some random person, with a bare bones background, dealing with these 50yr old nobles. So if these people can be outfoxed by random guy A, wouldn't that call into question how they managed to become this 50yr old expert at the game? In essence creating an even worst problem.

I'm not defending them, I just telling your idea isn't any better than what is current available. Lets say this, lets say the plot of a game was your a low level noble in Orlais, who wants to get in with the Empress. So you have to play the game and get rid of your competition by any means. Now they can even completely disregard the standard quest system, you don't get any, you just interact with these people to get from point A to point B. But tug tug, your on a leash anyway, the moment they give you an objective, they design conditions and parameters to achieve this goal, no matter how much freedom they pretend you have, your on a leash.

You keep saying you don't want that, but that's literally impossible. Unless they make a game, that has no defined parameters, limiteless options and no defined goals, your never off leash. There is no sometimes, its never. And you asked why would someone follow the dog, well go into the next room and ask the first person you see. Because that is not something unique to video games, the only difference in video games, is when Hawke gets tricked into fighting a hundred guys, Hawke, Link, Master Chief, Nathan Drake, Shepard etc. they always win.

[Harid]

Sepewrath wrote...

Harid wrote...
Because of those reasons, I would not like to be a player placed in an enviornment, like Orzammarr, like the Imperium, like Orlais, where we are told that betrayal and political machinations occur all of the time, that these places are based on that type of world view, and you are the dog to some master; my PC came up in this world, and if this character hasn't also been playing the game all of this time, how did this player avoid death all of these years. 

You keep saying this, but what is the rate on this? Every 1 out of every 3 quest, you get to make the calls? Its like you said, you shouldn't be able to talk down the final boss or manipulate them, why not? How is the final boss different from Bhelen, outside of the fact, that their the last person you come into contact with? Bhelen wouldn't have weak convictions, he would have been just as steeped in political intrigue as your character, the same pass your given to the final boss can be applied to any and everyone.

Lets say your in Orlais, your not going to be a 50yr old noble, who has been doing this for 35yrs, your going to be some random person, with a bare bones background, dealing with these 50yr old nobles. So if these people can be outfoxed by random guy A, wouldn't that call into question how they managed to become this 50yr old expert at the game? In essence creating an even worst problem.

I'm not defending them, I just telling your idea isn't any better than what is current available. Lets say this, lets say the plot of a game was your a low level noble in Orlais, who wants to get in with the Empress. So you have to play the game and get rid of your competition by any means. Now they can even completely disregard the standard quest system, you don't get any, you just interact with these people to get from point A to point B. But tug tug, your on a leash anyway, the moment they give you an objective, they design conditions and parameters to achieve this goal, no matter how much freedom they pretend you have, your on a leash.

You keep saying you don't want that, but that's literally impossible. Unless they make a game, that has no defined parameters, limiteless options and no defined goals, your never off leash. There is no sometimes, its never. And you asked why would someone follow the dog, well go into the next room and ask the first person you see. Because that is not something unique to video games, the only difference in video games, is when Hawke gets tricked into fighting a hundred guys, Hawke, Link, Master Chief, Nathan Drake, Shepard etc. they always win.

This is the last time I am going to deal with you if you keep arguing for points I have made it clear that I am not in favor of.  Is that understood?

For your first point.  How about >1?  (Hyperbole aside, well, not so much but whatever.) Right now, all quests largely start, and end in similar fashion.  Some person tells you to do something and you do it.  Most of them spit in your face while you do it.  Some of them tell you you are gonna do it, even when you tell them to bugger off.  You stumble into the 97th ambush and no one says "Hey. . .another ambush, great leadership!"  No one questions why they are following some idiot that keeps walking into ambushes with bigger idiots than they portray you to be.  If my character is an idiot, fine, but do not act like he isn't or is worthy of respect when the game consistantly portrays you not worthy of that respect.  What makes it more jarring is the transition from being spit on to Champion in DA2.  Not that that doesn't stop some people from spitting on you anyway.  But I digress.  My major complaint is breaking that formula, and eliminating main quest "Well, you gotta do it anyway" nonsense that Bioware does.  Why am I even going to a questholder if I gotta do it anyway.  Might as well make it a rumor I am actively investigating if that is the case (for example.)

For your second point, every 50 year old Orlesian noble isn't going to by virtue of experiance be better than you at playing the 'grand game' in Orlais, under the context of this example.  Some people have a better mind of those things than others.  I don't care if someone is better than me at playing 'the game', as that is how you can create a good rivalry to be overcome, eventually.  But Bioware as of today would write you being outgamed by everyone till you stumble through their plans, killing them, then moving onto the next, no one questioning you for being a sucker, no one aiding you at playing the game better, no one losing faith in you for being suckered for the 97th time, because you are ****ing awesome, that's why.  And that sounds terrible to me.  I don't want to play a game like that.  

The whole purpose of building a place with that kind of intrigue is to take part in it.  Not stumble your way through it.  And if I am not participating in 'the game', then I don't want any part of it, I would not feel I would deserve the place Bioware would inevitably put me in that world, much like I and many others didn't feel Hawke deserved the title "Champion" or Viscount.  Hawke didn't make any moves to show he deserved or desired those titles, he didn't put his friends in positions of power, he didn't petition and work with nobles to make sure they came to him with every problem they had to build a relationship with them, and show himself to be a better alternative to Dumar, he didn't actively subvert the Viscount or the Qunari or something to show to people that he would be a strong leader, all he did was stumble into the plans of others and kill things.

You keep bringing up this concept of parlaying with everyone when I do not desire that in the least.  I don't care about Bhelen's convictions.  What I care about is how I get suckered by Bhelen no matter what when my Dwarven Noble should know not to trust his brother from birth, Dwarven culture is built on the betrayal by family, Bhelen is no anomaly.  The exile of your Dwarven Noble should have been better than what it was.  

What I desire is not being a dog to people who I should not be a dog to.  I should not be out maneuvered by every single quest giver in the entire game.  I should be worthy of the respect I am given for leading a group, or for being the Warden Commander, or for being the Champion.  You become worthy through your actions.  Right now, Bioware would make you worthy just because.  Changing quest structure is one of the things they can do with a spoken protagonist, but they still use the same quest structure they have been using since KOTOR, if anything it's actually getting worse over time.

Ex.  Well, I know this questgiver is not to be trusted, so what can I do to take the offensive here?  And then the quest expands from there.  Rather than herp derp time to walk into ambush #86397.

Again.  I do not care if the game leads me down a set path.  It's video game.  That's what they do, something I said like 5 posts ago.  I care that every quest leads me down the  same  path.  Segregate the difference in your head, and get back to me.

Modifié par Harid, 26 août 2011 - 03:34 .

[Rifneno]

Harid wrote...

Recent Tough Enough. Apparently she didn't bring him his beer fast enough. (Realistically she just said something really stupid)

Oh lord, I forgot they resurrected that horrific reality show. How depressing. After the first one gave us Maven they should've known to burn it and scatter its ashes across the world.

Again. I do not care if the game leads me down a set path. It's video game. That's what they do, something I said like 5 posts ago. I care that every quest leads me down the same path. Segregate the difference in your head, and get back to me.

Have you played Witcher 2? That's the only game I've played that's done a decent job of that. But as a consequence of choices giving us different paths to the end, the content had to be thinned out and so a single playthrough was very short (comparatively speaking). My only gripe was that they chose the illegitimate (and frankly, hideously deformed) love child of a one night stand between Mario and Final Fantasy known as "action RPG" for the combat mechanics. But that's just me, lots of people love that unnatural freak.

[Harid]

Rifneno wrote...

Harid wrote...

Recent Tough Enough. Apparently she didn't bring him his beer fast enough. (Realistically she just said something really stupid)

Oh lord, I forgot they resurrected that horrific reality show. How depressing. After the first one gave us Maven they should've known to burn it and scatter its ashes across the world.

Again. I do not care if the game leads me down a set path. It's video game. That's what they do, something I said like 5 posts ago. I care that every quest leads me down the same path. Segregate the difference in your head, and get back to me.

Have you played Witcher 2? That's the only game I've played that's done a decent job of that. But as a consequence of choices giving us different paths to the end, the content had to be thinned out and so a single playthrough was very short (comparatively speaking). My only gripe was that they chose the illegitimate (and frankly, hideously deformed) love child of a one night stand between Mario and Final Fantasy known as "action RPG" for the combat mechanics. But that's just me, lots of people love that unnatural freak.

To your first point, we got the Miz, John Morrison and Melina out of Tough Enough.  I still think Maven would be wrestling today if they had him join Evolution, he, despite his mediocrity was over, much like. . .The Miz today.  But. . .I digress.  Can't talk about pro wrestling here.

To the second point, my PC can't play it, unfortunately, but between New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and the Witcher 2, when I can replace my entire PC will be the day I look into playing it.

I've heard it plays closer to Arkham Asylum than any of the games you mentioned, though.  And I also have no problem with action RPG's, so I think I'll be ok.

Modifié par Harid, 26 août 2011 - 12:18 .

[Drimberly]

I have always wanted to play as a qunari, species...or whatever they are. plus wouldnt it be AWESOME to duel wield a pair of enourmaus swords.

[Todd23]

You are a Tevinter magister's apprentice, your master is a vile thing with slaves and no real care for human life. You have learned magic beyond any mage of a foreign land's comprehension. After the untimely death of your former master (either by your betrayal or as a result of a certain glowing elf) will you follow in his footsteps and dive in to the riches and powers a magister? Or start a revolution against blood magic and/or slaves? Collect slaves for labor or rehabilitation in your anti-slave army. Make new friends, old dreaming ones, and take over territory and mark your name in history forever. But be careful, for some powers come with a great price, and ruling over such a land may bring the wrong attention.

[Harid]

Todd23 wrote...

You are a Tevinter magister's apprentice, your master is a vile thing with slaves and no real care for human life. You have learned magic beyond any mage of a foreign land's comprehension. After the untimely death of your former master (either by your betrayal or as a result of a certain glowing elf) will you follow in his footsteps and dive in to the riches and powers a magister? Or start a revolution against blood magic and/or slaves? Collect slaves for labor or rehabilitation in your anti-slave army. Make new friends, old dreaming ones, and take over territory and mark your name in history forever. But be careful, for some powers come with a great price, and ruling over such a land may bring the wrong attention.

What happens if you want to play a rogue or warrior?

Oh yeah, they don't go anywhere in the Imperium.

Same applies to mages and the Qun.

Which is likely why we will never see either location.

Modifié par Harid, 02 septembre 2011 - 02:47 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Not a lot of mage Dwarves around either, yet we got to play them. And Tevinter got a need for warriors just as much as any other nation. They probably don't ever advance high in rank or title, but they are existant none the less.

[Wulfram]

Fighting for respect as a non-mage in Tevinter could be quite interesting. And at least we'd have a built in explanation for why people aren't all freaking out about you or your companions being mages.

Though it would need to be less of a charicature of evil than it was presented as in DA2 to be a worthwhile setting.

Modifié par Wulfram, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:04 .

[Vicious]

A seeker dispatched by the Divine to put an end to the war.

PAX they said the next hero will have to save the world from itself.

I cAnt wait to hear the chorus of whining and teeth gnashing when people are forced to be a Chantry hero.

[Nimrodell]

Drimberly wrote...

I have always wanted to play as a qunari, species...or whatever they are. plus wouldnt it be AWESOME to duel wield a pair of enourmaus swords.

One simple question... and to make it clear before I ask it - since March and the release date, people were whining here about not having a choice in DA2, even tho there were choices all around Hawke (in determining who Hawke actually was, a hero, a scoundrel or just plain flegmatic forced into battle), just personal ones, not the ones of 'my decision will make world crumble or propser 'cause I'm that awesome'. Now, how can protagonist be a qunari ever after lessons we've learned? I could play a Qunari but you are actually reffering to Tal'Vashot, not Qunari... or Qunari that actually abandoned the Qun and beleifs of Koslun, but if choice is such, then you can play as that race, but not as someone that is actually a Qunari (meaning, asit tal-eb - to be, cerainty). Would you find Qunari playthrough compelling then, being deprived of so many choices and gender for that matter, since you know what Sten states about women in DA:O?
Let me make it  more clear, I love Qunari, their philosophy of living is something I'm familiar with - but really, even though Arishok and Qunari invoke respect in gaming population, do you really think people would find one compelling, even as a mercenary, ex-Qunari with no honor what so ever (and what about female character?)? As I stated, I would be able to play as Qunari, but if BW actually introduce Qunari as PC, the hero, they would be in sheit loads of trouble... 'cause then all those 'I wan't to change the world' players would just keep spitting and sheiting on them... either for retcons, or plot holes, or being deprived of 'choice'. It could be done, but it would require horrible effort from story designers themselves... and still, players would keep barking, 'cause Qunari philosophy implies choice, but not the one players are used to.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Sten seemed to think he would have made a better leader of the party if you take him in DAO. If he had taken charge of the band of heroes, he probably would have still had the same goal as the Warden had. So if Bioware wrote a story the right way it would be possible to accommodate a potential Qunari protagonist. A female one might be harder, but still possible.

[Nimrodell]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Sten seemed to think he would have made a better leader of the party if you take him in DAO. If he had taken charge of the band of heroes, he probably would have still had the same goal as the Warden had. So if Bioware wrote a story the right way it would be possible to accommodate a potential Qunari protagonist. A female one might be harder, but still possible.

As I said, it is actually possible to write plausible Qunari main hero, either male or female - but like really carefull, and trust me, that would be really hard task to do, especially with approval system with no showering with gifts... and ofc even with friendship/rivalry system, without being obiously streamlined - make that illusion possible is really hard. The problem with Qunari is their philosophy, being a Qunari doesn't mean just race or nations - it's their beliefs too. One could pull it of with having Qunari protagonist as Grey Warden... even mage pathway could be done, still, it would be like gruesomly hard to pull of 'real' Qunari gameplay... it's not just about protagonist, it's would be about how the entire Qunari society accepts him/her all along with prejudices about Qunari in other races/nations... I really don't see it happening, unless BW is that determined to make awesome and plausible story with catering to all those whinners from BSN.

[Todd23]

We've determined that it's possible to be a male or female protagonist with either the Qun or Tevinter. But people are saying their's still a problem with class... really? If you're a mage your Tevinter if your not you're Qunari. With the constant struggle between them you can have a point where they meet, even though the origins are so different.

[sevalaricgirl]

I don't want to be a mage or a qunari. I want choices of class and race. To give us only two options is not Bioware's style, thank goodness.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 05 septembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[GSSAGE7]

I recall being able to outsmart the Orzamar King potentials at the end, by either working for one of them, while secretly working for the other, or switching who you vote for King at the very end.

[Krytheos]

 The thing with a qunari protagonist here, that's the main issues: 
1: The culture. Qunari [people of the Qun, not the horned fellows] follow a strict pathway and set of guidances. They are sent for a purpose; if they are like a Sten, they are sent to find out word of a Blight, or something or other. Whatever is relevant to their jobs, they do it. There are no females who go out into war; they're farmers, priests, nuns, but never warriors -- even in the case of, say, the special Religious Police, they're not technically warriors, but Priests doing their duty. 


2. They don't just flimsy with anyone or anything that moves; key problem of this means no romances. You would have a mate, opposite gender, end of discussion there. You would be married, you would have a kid, send the kid off, and never see him or her again, and never speak to your 'spouse' again. 


3. Tal-Vashoth don't shed off their heritage, either; romance for them is impossible as well, though they're not as duty bound, they're still qunari, and still not going to be completely disolved of the qun culture. 


4. If we're talking about the Kossith, the horned fellows, same deals essentially, since they are apart of the qun; these all work better as adversarys to overcome, as antagonists, mercenaries, murderers, etc. They just work for this purpose, not as the protagonist. 


I think I covered of all the basic reasons why Qunari/Kossith protagonists won't work. That said..


If Bioware does do an Origins thing again, I want them to do it dcorrectly. Origins was how not to do Origins correctly. What I think would potentially be better, is Origin stories done that have consequences down the road. I don't want to just be Dalish, meet a Dalish camp, get a small mention, then essentially be a human with small pointy ears. I also don't want to be a city elf who took a bribe of 40 sovereigns, got caught, took all the blame, then got crapped all over, then it doesn't get mentioned except 3/4's of the game through, with minor consequences and a small closure that doesn't really give closure, then be a human with small pointy ears. 


I want my choices in the Origins to actually affect the story; you bribed the Bann? Instead of just 'Oh, it's you' and slight anger all over then sudden forgiveness in the end, I want to really feel like I did something bad. Like, hey, why not have the entire elves turn on you, calling you a vile scum, traitor, etc. all kinds of nasty words? Why is it just small mentions in a few select places with few actual consequences? 


If they do Origin stories again, they need to do them correctly. They need to do them with choices and consequences PRIMARILY in mind, working them into the narrative and interweaving them. I'd also like more political stuff to go on; betrayals, too. I don't care for being the big manipulative douche, so much as being able to ally with someone, then in a critical moment of allegiance, alliance making, or a huge deal, spring a trap or set up an ambush, or set someone up to take the fall. That's the kind of betrayals that would be interesting, to me. 
I don't want super big manipulative plots; that'd be ridiculous unless the character comes from a political background. Pointless, too, since there is no real reasoning behind except 'just because' which is never a good thing, in my book. 


If I had to say what potential Origins would be nice? 

Tevinter Magi; Magi only.
Tevinter Slave; Warrior, Rogue, Magi;
Tevinter Apprentice: Magi only;
Blossoming Seeker; warrior, rogue
Crow Assassin; all classes [unless I'm missing a key lore piece that says Crow Assassin's can't be magi..]
 Orlesian Noble; warrior; rogue; races: Human, Elf.
 Orlesian Slave; all classes, all races
Orlesian Chevalier; Warrior, Rogue; Human, Elf
Dwarven Smith; warrior, rogue; dwarf only.
 Dwarven Second; warrior, rogue; dwarf only
Surface Dwarven Noble; warrior, rogue; dwarf only.
Alienage Elf; all classes, elf only
Elven Noble; warrior, rogue; elf only.
 Dalish Keeper; magi only; elf only. 
[insert human city name here] Street rat; all classes; human only
Minor Human Noble; warrior, rogue; human only.
 Enchanter; magi only; human, elf.
 Vizier/Advisor to Empress Celine; magi only; human only. 

Etc. 



But this is just my 2 cents. Take them for granted. Also probably listed waaaay too many origins. I get carried away, what can I say? 

[Edit: Fixed problem with original post of it being one long paragraph. Horror to sit through, I apologize.]

Modifié par Krytheos, 05 septembre 2011 - 05:12 .