77 réponses à ce sujet

[Norskebanan]

Mandolin, just out of curiosity, what bonus power did you use for your shotgun engineer? Engineers seem like they're good at stripping defenses so maybe they could benefit from Shredder Ammo? I've never played engineer so forgive my stupidity.

[Mand0l1n]

I took armour piercing evolved to tungsten. The engineer has problems finishing people off so this helped. Shredder would be better for health but the added defense stripping of ap made more sense to me. Here's my build

Explosive drone
Mechanic
Heavy incinerate
Tungsten ammo
Overload 6
Cryoblast 3
Ai hacking 1 (but respecced this for synthetic missions)

[ryoldschool]

AP ammo is a good choice for engineer ( you already have a bunch of active powers using your cooldown anyway ). Well I just finished an engineer run and what I did was a little boring, but I took Grunt with me almost always and used his squad incendary ammo. The Shredder ammo is not thought of very highly around here ( I'm assuming you play on insanity ), because of how ammo powers work the target has to be down to health to get any benefit from the ammo power.

On the SM I took squad warp ammo, but AP would have helped with the armor in the mission also.

[Mand0l1n]

Shredder does seem to have a terrible rep and justly so since both warp ammo and ap make more sense. I don't normally bother with ammo powers but they make a lot of sense on the caster classes. Overall this engineer playthrough has been fun but I've missed not being able to throw people around.

[Xariann]

adonfraz wrote...

I'm not here to tell you your way of playing is wrong, but I'm here to prove a point.

With your method in the Tali recruitment (The only Adept vid of yours I've watched) you are essentially using all of your squadmates powers and your own to deal with just one enemy. Yes you shoot less but if you used singularity in those situations where you used ED, the enemy wouldn't be able shoot back so you can shoot them risk free, ragdoll them for double damage, and finish them while preserving your squadmates powers for the other enemies.

My point is that Energy Drain isn't much faster at striping shields than singularity+SMG fire. However not only does singularity possess a shorter cooldown than ED and prevent the enemy from shooting you, once you strip their shields the enemy is ragdolled (while preserving squadmates powers like pull for other enemies) and ripe to finish off with warp, throw, or double damage from guns.

Same result as you but two powers rather than three so you have your squads powers available to help you with other enemies.

*Basically took Caj's point and made it less offensive*

First off thanks for discussing the way you are doing.

The squad powers do get off CD fast at that point due to upgrades etc so they are available even if I use one more. Also I might shoot stuff to get the shields down, I might use ED to do that, or I might use it to get my shields up. That changes the amount of skills I use on one target depending on the situation. That said I like Caj's playstyle which I said more than once. I, too, have mentioned that without the skipped part, which I included in my video, it takes me 23 seconds longer. Not that much longer really.

On another note I never ever used Jack on my Insanity runs before this one. I just thought, "Hell let's just have fun with her" (no, not that "fun" ) so I wound up playing with her using Pull whenever. I wasn't going to use Shockwave much, that is one skill I use little. It's priceless to hear her say, "Fly ****!" to a Geth I find  I have done things in the video actually where I threw a singularity to the right, and a pull to the left, into two different groups, so yes, I understand that you want to keep some skils free. You have my agreement there. Sometimes I plan ahead when I want to use what in my head. It might not always work out that way, heehee.

There are some Adepts that do it completely to the other extreme. They just want to use powers without touching a gun. I read a post from someone where he said he did the whole mission up to the end without shooting anything at all. He also said he did shoot at the Reaper boss. It might be slower but I don't think anyone is running after players telling them they need to finish ASAP or their car will burn or something. I don't know if "powers only" would be my playstyle personally, but I kinda think that's an achievement in itself regardless of the speed, even if I might not play it that way.

Being good at a class isn't just about playing the "standard" that everyone expects and do it perfectly. It's also about that. Yes, there is bad gameplay too. But there're also people who might go out of their way to just do it differently and get it done and those I find interesting. They might do that possibly because they have already beaten the game following "the standard."

Again I do appreciate the discussion and the fact that you took some time to write it with a relaxed point of view. I got a friend I play MMOs with all the time. We keep throwing ideas at each other back and forth, sometimes we "challenge" each other, but it's all done in a good way and with the purpose of pushing the other of thinking out of the box or see things we didn't see.

Have fun and keep throwing your ideas at me as you think them. If you also have any Infiltrator tips, I'd welcome some PMs

Modifié par Xariann, 27 août 2011 - 03:59 .

[Xariann]

Mand0l1n wrote...

I've played a shotgun adept and am just finishing a shotgun engineer. Overall I think I prefer an assault rifle even if playing cqc. The gps is the shotgun of choice for it's defence stripping ability but I hate the way it feels when firing. I would happily sacrifice the charge ability of the gun if it could be made to fire on pressing down rather than releasing. The other shotguns are ok but nothing feels as satisfying as a mattock or vindicator imo.

Oh gosh, I love the feel of the Vindicator. When I finished my Adept run I started two new runs, one with Soldier and one with Infiltrator to decide what I wanted to do next. I had played both before, but after playing Adept they felt a bit different. So I kinda wanted something to feel I am actually shooting stuff and I picked the Vindicator and had a blast on Soldier. It's like... you kinda forget how it feels like. I had been using the Mattok a fair bit on the Adept. Then I decided to play Infiltrator for the Shotgun thing, but I keep thinking, "Give me a rifle :<" Just for the feel, not for the gameplay or anything.

[ryoldschool]

The purpose of this post is to show some Adept play with a low level adept on Xbox. I will play it without using the power-wheel to activate powers.  It makes for more fluid play.  As you will see the controls are non-optimal for coordinating teammate attacks.
Basically I did two runs to test out non-pause works best for me.
After looking at the first video, please don't assume that I'm not a serious player.  I am, its just that I remember having had less trouble when I was using the power-wheel dealing with multiple squad powers.  Not pretty

Running as level 14 adept, insanity
Build  level 14 ( 29 points )
singularity     10
Throw           none
Warp              6
Pull                1
Passive        10 ( cooldown bonus )
ED                 1  ( did not use at all because mapped warp and pull )
 1 point extra ( saving to max out warp )
For those PC gamers out there that don't know how the xbox controls work in this game:
Squadmate Commands:
You can "map" one squad power to one of the two Dpad buttons ( left or right )
When you want to execute a squadmates mapped power, press the dpad arrow.  You must
have an active target, and the power must be available.  One small problem is that
those same two dpad arrows are used for squad positioning.  You point to an area ( with no target ) press the
dpad arrow and presto-> you have issued a command for the squadmate to reposition to where
you were pointing.  So you can intend to use a squadpower, but because it looks like you have
an enemy targeted ( orange box around the enemy ), the game does not think that that you have
a target.
Player Commands:
You can map at most three active powers.  If you need another power ( like using medi-gel )
you have to use the power-wheel ( which you will see me doing in the videos to revive
squadmates ).
=======================================================
On Xbox
Player
      Left Bumper   - Warp
      Y Button      - singularity
      Right Bumper  - pull
Squadmates
      Miranda       - warp
   + one of below
      Zaeed         - concussive shot
      Jack          - pull
=======================================================
1) All biotic squad = Miranda + Jack ( This did not work to well for me )
2) Miranda + Zaeed on sniper ( squad disruptor ammo )

The hardest parts of that mission for this grouping/build were with the Gethprime ( the one by the initial explosive charge, and the second set of Gethprime with the drones ).  So the video's cover those parts.
My initial results are that it was easier for me to manage just Miranda's squad power to get my warp bombs, because Zaeed basically did all his work with the sniper rifle without direction from me.

All Biotic Squad Miranda and Jack

Miranda and Zaeed with squad disruptor 

Last part for grins

Edit:Fixed link.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 27 août 2011 - 12:30 .

[CaolIla]

first off: you screwed up the first link : )

I can't imagine playing any shooter on a console, the last game I played on console that resembles a shooter a tiny bit was GTA Vice City on PS2 I think, and there was a good reason why auto aim was included.

So I still imagine that every computer version of a shooter like game is FAR easier on the PC. One game that is an exception for me is GTA Liberty City Stories or how it's called, in some missions you have to control a Helicopter while taking out tiny boats with it. I don't have three hands and I imagine the control is easier on console... you need to steer the Helicopter with WASD and the numpad (at least 2, 4, 6 and 8) while controlling and shooting with the mouse... try that with two hands Oo, but that's just my personal hell.

Sidetracked... so I can't really judge what you did there, for me every time you hit something is a miracle I'm witnessing ; )

[Mand0l1n]

I play on the 360 and pretty much sacrifice throw because it cant be mapped along with pull and warp. It's a shame but I hate pausing unless I'm about to die and need to carefully plan out an escape route. The thing I hate the most is the auto aim. It's particularly annoying on lotsb when you're trying to target the lightning conductors and the reticule keeps getting sucked onto a moving enemy. Despite these issues I still love the game and you can get by just using 1 power per squaddie. The thing I'm starting to appreciate is how effective a solely biotic squad can be even against geth. When I first started playing the class I always brought defence strippers but they really aren't necessary when you have guns. An adept with access to an extra pull and warp can be a lot of fun.

Modifié par Mand0l1n, 27 août 2011 - 09:53 .

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

@ the OP,

Don't expect everyone to be full of praise. The internet is a hostile place with lots of morons, unfortunately Everything I've read in this thread looks more like constructive criticism to me. You also picked the most controversial class (Adept) for your videos. There are lots of folks at the BSN who don't like the ME2 Adept and they will always come up with stupid and pointless arguments like "you're using a gun and/or bonus power", "you're using squadmates", "you're using the Adept's signature power less often than I do with my Vangaurd (Charge) or Soldier (ARush)" etc etc.

Best to ignore them altogether. However, there are also many people (most here at the strategy section) who try to help people improve their ME2 abilities - which is the whole point of having a forum to discuss different playstyles and strategies in the first place.

About squadbuttons,

I play on pc, but the squad buttons [Q] and [E] can be used in a flexible way. Even on pc there are too few hotkeys to map all available powers, but the squad buttons come to the resque. Take Miranda, for example. She can use Warp and Overload. I usually only assign her Warp to one of the hotkeys, but whenever enemies have their shields up, hitting Miranda's squadbutton will always force her to use Overload (all powers that are labeled red when you open the powerwheel cannot be used through the squad buttons, on pc at least). So, although I only mapped her Warp, I'm still able to use Overload whenever I want to (by pressing her squadbutton).

This works with all squadmates, so you can map Samara's Pull while still being able to use her Reave (which isn't mapped) on enemies with armor or barriers. You can map Garrus' Overload and have him use Concussive Shot against barriers and/or enemies who have lost their protection (without mapping CS) and so on. It only gets a little tricky when squadmates have multiple options. Using Samara's squadbutton on an enemy without defenses can make her use Pull or Throw. Both options are available and AFAIK there is no way to tell which one she'll use.

Maybe this works on consoles too.

[Mand0l1n]

The squad button you mention is also the squad hotkey button on consoles so I don't think this will work. Regarding criticism, Boz 2.0 is right, it will always happen whenever you put something out there for people to look at. Just remember to spec for heavy barrier and you'll be fine :-)

[CaolIla]

@Bozorgmehr: I didn't know that, that sounds really useful. I remapped Q and E to certain hotkeys and since I always use them for squadmate powers, that wouldn't even be a big difference. Thanks ; )

[ryoldschool]

@CaolIla, it was last last night - maybe the video gods were telling me not to publish that one But I fixed the links.

Edit:  I'd just like to add while we are discussing controls, I actually bought the PC version of the game for this reason, but could not get used to WASD movement.  Even so, in my mission, it was cool when I pulled off a warp bomb it looked like majic because I'd never done them without powerwheel before.

@boz - good to have you back.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 27 août 2011 - 12:26 .

[Xariann]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

I play on pc, but the squad buttons [Q] and [E] can be used in a flexible way. Even on pc there are too few hotkeys to map all available powers, but the squad buttons come to the resque. Take Miranda, for example. She can use Warp and Overload. I usually only assign her Warp to one of the hotkeys, but whenever enemies have their shields up, hitting Miranda's squadbutton will always force her to use Overload (all powers that are labeled red when you open the powerwheel cannot be used through the squad buttons, on pc at least). So, although I only mapped her Warp, I'm still able to use Overload whenever I want to (by pressing her squadbutton).

What exactly do you mean by squadbutton? Her protrait? If I try to press the skill, let's say Warp, when shields are up, she will still use Warp and it will have little effect.

This is something about controls I didn't know, if you could clarify it I'd appreciate it

Modifié par Xariann, 27 août 2011 - 06:51 .

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

I don't know how those D-pad buttons work exactly. On PC, every mapped power you use is activated regardless enemy status. Hence you can use Pull or Concussive Shot on enemies with shields up (which is not possible using [Q] and [E] b/c the game has labeled those powers ineffective against shields).

So when I want to use Grunt's CS to interupt Scion attacks, for example, I have to map his CS. Pressing [Q] or [E] will only command Grunt to attack the Scion with his weapons (it does not activate CS against armored foes).

How does this work on consoles? Can you still cast a squadmate's Pull on enemies with shields? Or do you have to remove shields first to be able to cast Pull with the D-pad? If the latter is true, then it's likely those D-pad buttons work exactly like [Q] and [E] on PC me thinks.

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

Xariann wrote...

What exactly do you mean by squadbutton? Her protrait? If I try to press the skill, let's say Warp, when shields are up, she will still use Warp and it will have little effect.

This is something about controls I didn't know, if you could clarify it I'd appreciate it

The default squadbuttons are [E] and [Q] on PC. Those buttons have multiple purposes. They can either command squadmates to get to a new position (blue arrows); they can command your squadies to attack a target (if you press those buttons with the crosshair pointed on an enemy your squadmates will attack (shoot) that enemy). Those buttons can also be used to order your squadmates to cast powers. Enemies have to be inside the crosshair and your squadmates must not be on cooldown.

When you play without any mapped powers, you can still have Miranda strip shields, armor and barriers. Target an enemy and press Miranda's squadbutton (that's either [E] or [Q] - the other one is for the second squadmate). She will use the appropriate power automatically. This way you can use Miranda's Overload to strip shields without having to map her Overload. This, however, does not work if you want to detonate a pyro. Miranda will be able to remove the pyro's protection, but she will never use Overload on a target that has lost its protection (miss perfect doesn't know you can detonate pyros LOL). Miranda will use either (Unstable) Warp which has a better cooldown and a stagger effect, or she will use Slam - but only when the enemy has lost most of its health bar (~75-80% or so).

To sum things up. When it comes to defense-stripping, no mapped powers are needed. You can use Miranda's Overload and Warp to strip defenses (and detonate warpbombs) without the need to map even one of her powers. But to detonate pyros, you need to manually activate Overload (which can only be done through mapping or pausing the game).

It's easy to figure out which powers can be used through the squadbuttons. The powerwheel labels powers red or green. The green ones will be cast by pressing the squadbuttons - the red ones are not (they need to be mapped if you want to hit shielded enemies with Warp or Pull - for example).

Other examples:

Mordin: Map his Cryo Blast - you can use Incinerate to burn through armor using the squadbutton.
Garrus: Map his Overload - you can use CS (against barriers and health) using the squadbutton.
Legion: Map his AI Hacking - you can use his combat drones with the squadbutton (against everyone else).

Squadmates who have multiple options available to handle either shields, armor, barriers or health are problematic though. I've already given the pyro example, and explained Samara's Pull-Throw dillema. Liara and Kasumi are bad too. I haven't figured out how the game determines which power they will use. I cannot predict when I press Liara's squadbutton if she put an enemy in Stasis, slaps a Singularity on em, or fires a Warp. Neither can I tell you whether Kasumi will Cloak, use Overload or Flashbangs the enemy. With those squadmates you need to map powers to be sure they use the one you need - most others do not and with just one mapped power, you still have full control over all their abilities.

[edit] What's wrong with smiley?

Modifié par Bozorgmehr 2.0, 27 août 2011 - 02:35 .

[SpockLives]

@Boz, I only play on PC, but from what I can tell from descriptions and Xbox vids, mapping squad powers to the d-pad is more like mapping a squad power to the 1-8 buttons on the keyboard. Of course, if no enemy is targeted the squaddie moves like Q or E. The d-pad buttons aren't "smart" like Q and E, so they don't automatically select the "best" power; power selection must be set up like keyboard hotkeys.

[Mand0l1n]

Basically the d-pad left is used to map a single power of one of your squad and the d-pad right is used to map a single power of your other squad member. Unfotunately these controls also move your squaddies to a specified location when not on a target. As far as mapping squad powers goes that's all you've got without bringing up the power wheel. This does make me almost want to buy a kinect for me3.... wait, what am I saying.....sorry a madness took me but it has passed :-)

[ryoldschool]

SpockLives wrote...

@Boz, I only play on PC, but from what I can tell from descriptions and Xbox vids, mapping squad powers to the d-pad is more like mapping a squad power to the 1-8 buttons on the keyboard. Of course, if no enemy is targeted the squaddie moves like Q or E. The d-pad buttons aren't "smart" like Q and E, so they don't automatically select the "best" power; power selection must be set up like keyboard hotkeys.

This is correct.  Even if shields are on enemy, and I had miranda's warp mapped, it uses warp ( which does have an effect ) but will not use overload.  This is why as the game gets more points to squad powers, you have to choose which one to map ( assuming you want to use non-pause playing ).

Even though I was not as effective using the non-pause strategy, it was more enjoyable to play because the action looked more "natural".

Edit: Not fast enough!  Mand0l1n beat me to it.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 27 août 2011 - 03:06 .

[ryoldschool]

Mand0l1n wrote...

Basically the d-pad left is used to map a single power of one of your squad and the d-pad right is used to map a single power of your other squad member. Unfotunately these controls also move your squaddies to a specified location when not on a target. As far as mapping squad powers goes that's all you've got without bringing up the power wheel. This does make me almost want to buy a kinect for me3.... wait, what am I saying.....sorry a madness took me but it has passed :-)

Kinect - yes, I am going to buy it just to see if it will help out with squad power usage.  Even if it does not, some of those games for it are fun when family comes over.

[Xariann]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

It's easy to figure out which powers can be used through the squadbuttons. The powerwheel labels powers red or green. The green ones will be cast by pressing the squadbuttons - the red ones are not (they need to be mapped if you want to hit shielded enemies with Warp or Pull - for example).

Yus I was aware of that, I just had no idea Q and E had alternative uses beside moving your squad. You learn something new every day

That will help cutting down some keybinds since until powers go up to number 4/5 on my keys it's easy to hit them, then it starts to get fiddly.

Thanks for the explanation.

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

Xariann wrote...

Yus I was aware of that, I just had no idea Q and E had alternative uses beside moving your squad. You learn something new every day

That will help cutting down some keybinds since until powers go up to number 4/5 on my keys it's easy to hit them, then it starts to get fiddly.

Thanks for the explanation.

It's almost impossible to reach 6/7/8 fast enough. I've mapped those keys to my mouse for easy access. Others re-arange their keyboard layout for better controls. Here's an old thread about different setups: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/5430834 - might be helpful

[edit]

When I'm using the Tempest, I try not to look at the crosshair, but instead to where the bullets hit. That improved my accuracy a lot.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr 2.0, 27 août 2011 - 11:29 .

[Xariann]

ryoldschool wrote...

Mand0l1n wrote...

Basically the d-pad left is used to map a single power of one of your squad and the d-pad right is used to map a single power of your other squad member. Unfotunately these controls also move your squaddies to a specified location when not on a target. As far as mapping squad powers goes that's all you've got without bringing up the power wheel. This does make me almost want to buy a kinect for me3.... wait, what am I saying.....sorry a madness took me but it has passed :-)

Kinect - yes, I am going to buy it just to see if it will help out with squad power usage.  Even if it does not, some of those games for it are fun when family comes over.

It makes me a bit sad to see that console players actually have a harder time with biotic squad members. The Zeed/Miranda video went bettter since you had less fiddle. I did notice however that your tempest seeme to be steadier than when I use it. When I shoot it on PC it tends to fire up the moon. Just wondering if there's a difference in compensating recoil between the two platforms.

How does it feel to play Adept straight after Soldier? What squad members are you going to take with you for the next missions?

[xassantex]

i didn't know how the priority of powers worked when ordering an attack.
thanks for the tip .
so logically Thane would use warp until the enemy is down to health, after which he'd switch to throw ?

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

xassantex wrote...

i didn't know how the priority of powers worked when ordering an attack.
thanks for the tip .
so logically Thane would use warp until the enemy is down to health, after which he'd switch to throw ?

I think Thane would always use Throw when you give him Heavy Warp, but Unstable's better cooldown is too good to ignore. Unstable Warp and Throw are both on a 9 seconds cooldown and I know Miranda uses her (Unstable) Warp more often than Slam (if she has it). My guess is it's tight to how much health the enemy has left. When they are low enough the AI thinks Slam or Throw are sufficient to kill the target.

There's also Throw Field which might be triggered when there are multiple unprotected enemies around. I've had Samara use Area Reave on a couple unprotected enemies (using her squadbutton) although Pull and Throw have a better cooldown (but I did not have an area version available at the time - Reave was clearly the 'best' option available).

It's very useful but I use it primarily to strip defenses - then I'm at least certain what will happen

And yes, if you have Thane on your squad and you press his button targeting someone with a yellow or purple bar, he will always use Warp.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr 2.0, 29 août 2011 - 09:49 .