71 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenSoda]

BW actually already adressed this very issue (it has been brought up before in other game forums).

In short: They don't care enough for this feature to pour the necessary resources into its implementation. (They worded it a bit more diplomatic -but that's pretty much it).

Modifié par GreenSoda, 23 août 2011 - 06:51 .

[Reptillius]

Arkitekt wrote...

Oh so you actually believe that mass effect isn't your real life?

So far I haven't seen any signs of Wal-Mart in the ME Universe. Probably for lisencing reasons...  So no... It's not my real life...

[littlezack]

I think there are about three ways to go about it.

1- What Mass Effect 2 does. NPCs don't walk around - but for the most part, they move, they have business to do, they give the impression that they exist and do things when you're not talking to them. You go to the Afterlife Club, you see people dancing, hanging around at the bar, drinking, et cetera.

2- You could have them walking around, like in any GTA sort of game. With a massive city, this is a necessity, but the problem is that it doesn't create perfect - sigh - immersion. In real life, people don't walk around in endless circles, they go places and do things. Having them walk around in a loop only furthers immersion if you're not paying attention. There's nothing weird about seeing two Krogans standing in one place talking to each other for thirty minutes. There is something weird about Turian walking an endless lap around the Presidium.

3-The ideal would be to have characters who actually walk places and do things, but that's probably more trouble than most developers are willing to go through for such a small thing.

I think 1 and 2 are the only real options, and they both have their... problems..

[Arkitekt]

Either you are trolling me or you are actively misunderstanding my point. There is no technical limitation that prevents cinematics happening with moving NPCs. It's not a matter of technical limitation, it's a matter of a whole new approach to it, which involves a very big lot more work, in order to encapsulate every single new "position" that we may experience in the cameras, lights, etc.

I never said it was "technically impossible" and that's why I also said that the limitation being the processing power or the engine is also bollocks. And YES, this is a problem of level design as well.

By assuming that the game engine has the function but isn't used you try to regulate the missing feature as a game design issue. But I contest this, if it wasn't intended as a feature it would never have been implemented into game engine to begine with that's a waste of man hours.

There is no waste here. NPCs already move in many places. Transition towards cinematics already happen. Slight changes of code that may occur due to camera positioning, lights, etc., merely happen in scripted events, which we can hardly call "the game engine". All the waste resides in your imagination.

Also if the feature was implemented but not used because of deficiencies these could easily be overcome in code.

"Easily"? You don't know what the **** you are talking about. There are a ton of cinematics, with camera placements and movements that are fully dependent on the characters' positioning. If this variable is let loose, you are on for a ride of buggy broken events, lady.

[whywhywhywhy]

GreenSoda wrote...

BW actually already adressed this very issue (it has been brought up before in other game forums).

In short: They don't care enough for this feature to pour the necessary resources into its implementation. (They worded it a bit more diplomatic -but that's pretty much it).

So that would mean the game engine doesnt support the feature.  I figured as much.

[Pulletlamer]

They are lazy. Moving costs alot of energy, dude.

In all seriousness I don't care. I don't want to be chasing NPC's just to have to talk to them.

[Arkitekt]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

GreenSoda wrote...

BW actually already adressed this very issue (it has been brought up before in other game forums).

In short: They don't care enough for this feature to pour the necessary resources into its implementation. (They worded it a bit more diplomatic -but that's pretty much it).

So that would mean the game engine doesnt support the feature.  I figured as much.

Sigh... nevermind...

[Eternal Phoenix]

wetnasty wrote...

Catsith wrote...

Because it's not important to Bioware, and it never has been. They do it in the Fable games.. and the Witcher games, all of Bethesda's games, and pretty much every other RPG series I can think of, but apparently Bioware just don't know how to do it or could care less about it.

Then.. go play those games instead. Problem solved.

Next question? 

NPCs moving around isn't hard to achieve. This was done in NEVERWINTER NIGHTS which is an older game than Mass Effect 1 & 2. All it requires is a tiny bit of scripting and waypoints for the NPC to move to. Bioware concentrates on making the graphics look as realistic as possible, then they should also try to make hubs look realistic with people actually walking around in them. Even some sort of 24/7 schedule wouldn't be hard to do and would add to imersion with the game. All the little details help.

Dragon Age 2's city was hated not just for the recycled enviroments but because it felt lifeless because most people just stood there and others were these low textured people like Lowtez Draken:

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 23 août 2011 - 07:50 .

[GreenSoda]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

GreenSoda wrote...

BW actually already adressed this very issue (it has been brought up before in other game forums).

In short: They don't care enough for this feature to pour the necessary resources into its implementation. (They worded it a bit more diplomatic -but that's pretty much it).

So that would mean the game engine doesnt support the feature.  I figured as much.

...except, no it does not mean that...like...at all.

[whywhywhywhy]

Arkitekt wrote...
Either you are trolling me or you are actively misunderstanding my point. There is no technical limitation that prevents cinematics happening with moving NPCs.

Trolling ?  Cause I disagree ? hmm, no.  At anyrate what you've admited here proves my point.  The game engine is the reason the features aren't implemented, because as you admit it technically could be implemented.  If the features aren't built into the game engine how could the game engine not be a reason for the features the op described ?  If they swapped out a game engine to support the features it could be turned on, if this isn't possible in me2 it's because the game engine doesn't support it.  A response by the Devs that the feature wasn't worth the resources is further proof of this.

Arkitekt wrote...
It's not a matter of technical limitation, it's a matter of a whole new approach to it, which involves a very big lot more work, in order to encapsulate every single new "position" that we may experience in the cameras, lights, etc.

It could be implemented in a smart manner that doesn't require every position of lights and camera's to be recalculated by using several static locations.  Not that the other way wouldn't work as well.  It's not as hard as you think but one way is more effiecient then the other which draws into the "processing power" statement.  We won't know if the features could be implemented without a significant draw on resources needed for other features.

Arkitekt wrote...
I never said it was "technically impossible" and that's why I also said that the limitation being the processing power or the engine is also bollocks. And YES, this is a problem of level design as well.

your absolutely wrong.  If the game engine was more advanced and had the features do you think level design would prevent it's use ? Keep in mind a cinematic perspective camera view was implemented in several earlier engines.(edit:along with moving npc's)  If the ME2 eninge wasn't one that evolved from a purely fps engine(despite all the great things done with it)it would have the flexibility needed.  But most of those great things have to be built/added to the existing game.  Why do you assume it's going to have so many problems when the engine used in Outcast apparently got the job done.  Right ?

Arkitekt wrote...
There is no waste here. NPCs already move in many places. Transition towards cinematics already happen. Slight changes of code that may occur due to camera positioning, lights, etc., merely happen in scripted events, which we can hardly call "the game engine". All the waste resides in your imagination.

Can a scripting system accomplish that on it's on ?  No.  It is by extention an extention of the game engine as it can't function without the game engine.  Again, it's just a tool to use so you don't have to hard code everything in the engine so you can save time and money.  Consider it an add on.

Arkitekt wrote...
"Easily"? You don't know what the **** you are talking about. There are a ton of cinematics, with camera placements and movements that are fully dependent on the characters' positioning. If this variable is let loose, you are on for a ride of buggy broken events, lady.

It's all relative.  I actually have a background in what I'm talking about, video game development isn't easy so maybe I trivialized it by saying that but the only reason the feature doesn't exist is because it's a subtile one vs eye candy.  You make it sound near impossible when it would be quite routine, routine..yes that's a better way of putting it.  Everything else you say is garbage and saying it angry doesn't make you less wrong.  So let's just agree to disagree here because your not gonna convince me of something I have my hands in regularly.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 23 août 2011 - 08:03 .

[whywhywhywhy]

GreenSoda wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

GreenSoda wrote...

BW actually already adressed this very issue (it has been brought up before in other game forums).

In short: They don't care enough for this feature to pour the necessary resources into its implementation. (They worded it a bit more diplomatic -but that's pretty much it).

So that would mean the game engine doesnt support the feature.  I figured as much.

...except, no it does not mean that...like...at all.

ROFL.  "hey don't care enough for this feature" weighted it.  "to pour the necessary resources into its implementation" To built it. Because the feature isn't built into the engine.  I'd say I'm correct kind sir. Thank you.

[Belisarius09]

They walked and/or were stationary in me1.
Npcs were stationary in me2.
Me3 who knows

[lobi]

Anyone remember The Witcher in 2007 and what CD Projekt did with the Aurora engine? Bioware overstate complexity and technical problems to avoid saying 'We blew our budget on voice acting because we like to hang out with famous people. Thats why our games look crap compared to the rest of the industry.'
I don't know about you guy's but to me, thats a perfectly valid excuse. It's their money.

Modifié par lobi, 23 août 2011 - 08:38 .

[Apathy1989]

Arkitekt wrote...

Also, if you have moving NPCs, then if you stay around, you'll watch them go in circles, and then it becomes just stupid.

Pretty much. The DA2 moving NPCs only go in small circles, repeating the same lines over and over again. It improves immersion if you aren't paying attention, but under scrutiny its laughable.

Witcher games and Oblivion had day-night cycles with NPCs roaming around randomly within their "zone" during the day, then going to bed at night. Fairly good, but both games suffer from not enough voice actors. In oblivion you will often see tramps talking to another identical tramp, both whom have the same voice. In this sense I prefere Dragon Ages tactic of just having murmered chatter as background noise. 

Biowares decision to not have day-night cycles in ME series, and to have a hard split in DA2, is that while theoretically immersive, the day-night cycle stuff is more impressive than useful. In reality the day is zooming past at a crazy speed, watching a day pass in a few hours. Then you have the issue of players don't want to wait around for an NPC. They want the quest and to continue with their game.

[Medhia Nox]

I don't need them to walk - but it would be interesting if, after the course of weeks/months/years - they would be in different places.

Take Aria for example - "****, why are you always just sitting here? Your ass ought to be huge!"

Even have her just standing at the railing the next time you come in. I think it would add to the game (for myself anyway).

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 23 août 2011 - 08:37 .

[Thompson family]

Re: OP

For the same reason people stand still today. They're texting -- only they have Omnitools, which brought all movement to a stop.

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

NPC's that you can talk to don't need to move much from there initial spot. However, other NPC's that make up the public crowd should be moving around.

Look at any of the hub worlds and realize how ridiculously dead the "scenes" are.

[heyimacrab]

in fallout the npcs are always moving and at night they walk home and go to bed
fallout has by far the greatest npcs
but mass effect isnt the kind of game were id wanna sit around and admire useless people , im always busy with something in mass effect

[Jog0907]

heyimacrab wrote...

in fallout the npcs are always moving and at night they walk home and go to bed
fallout has by far the greatest npcs
but mass effect isnt the kind of game were id wanna sit around and admire useless people , im always busy with something in mass effect

agree you need that kind of thing in fallout for immersion, not in mass effect when its already clear what your options are, also I wouldnt want time wasted on adding such a useless feature to npcs that dont need it at all, when that time can be used for more important things.