15 réponses à ce sujet

[gandanlin]

I thought I would try building Leliana a bit differently, with a greater focus on willpower this time. It should be interesting to compare this with earlier builds where her cunning was immense but where she always ran out of stamina in long battles.
 
Archery talents for the most part have very short cool-down times and low stamina costs. Cool-down times are as follows: Critical shot 10 seconds, Shattering shot 15, Crippling shot 10, Pinning shot 15. Leliana can be set to cycle through these four shots and each cycle will cost her 125 in stamina. If her stamina is high enough and/or regenerates quickly enough, she should be able to just keeping cycling through these shots with hardly a pause.
 
I want her to have Aim and Song of Courage activated, so that is another 126 in stamina. I also want her to be a master ranger. The stamina cost of summoning a beast is 50.
 
So Leliana’s build this time requires a minimum of 125 + 126 + 50 = 301 total stamina.
 
That is the basic build. But I don’t exclude having other talents that she may use at times: Arrow of Slaying, Suppressing fire, Scattershot, and whatever else she needs. Some of these consume quite a bit of stamina.  She is going to need lots of stamina.
 
Now, I know that armor and equipment can be used to increase her stamina, but the goal this time is to maximize her willpower as high as possible. Her cunning will be just high enough for her to disarm the necessary traps and pick the necessary locks. I also know that cunning contributes to armor penetration, critical chance scores, and other rogue-type talents. So I’m willing to live with certain losses that go with her being built this way. 
 
It should be interesting to see how she performs.
 
 
 

[WJC3688]

It's always cool to experiment for experimentation's sake, but I don't see this build being very efficient at all. The problem with skills like Crippling Shot and Pinning Shot is that they only deal normal damage, so even if you're spamming them, a Leliana who invests purely into damage-dealing attributes will do more DPS with just normal attacks. What DLC do you have? This would be especially inefficient if you have access to the Sorrows of Arlathan or Repeater Gloves; if you don't have those it's more viable since Aim doesn't affect the aim speed of talents, but even then I don't think I'd go for it.

[gandanlin]

Exactly. This is what I wanted to experiment with -- the build where Lel is all cunning and lethality versus the build where she has enough stamina to fire a good number of talent-based shots. No question that as an individual she will do less damage...at least I am inclined to think she will do less....

The question is more about how much more, if anything, she will add to the team. Pinning, crippling, and shattering shots can be used to disable or damage the armor of hard-to-kill opponents. So the experiment is to find out if is worthwhile maximizing that aspect of Leliana's build.

I have all the dlc and related equipment. The build is mostly an experiment.

[The-Visonary]

The build to me seems like utility. Crippling Shot to help out your warriors or rouges, Pinning Shot to help your mage being attacked in melee.

[Last Darkness]

You need 60 Willpower to equal the +300.

Its very possible to get 60 Cun/Will.
Its also possible to boost her strength to wear Warden Commander Boots, Provacatuer Chest, executioners Helm, and the high reguard of house dace.
Or stack her to +20 Stamina regen.

[termokanden]

Well I guess I'll check later to see how it worked out.

I always build Leliana to have just enough strength and dex to use the best leather armor and bow and spend everything else on cunning. My priorities for Leliana are as follows:

1. Pick locks/disarm traps.
2. Keep up Song of Courage.
3. Provide a bit of DPS.
4. Scattershot.
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25. Maybe other abilities, if she has stamina for it.

She's pure support in my games, but you could easily build her to be more efficient in combat. I don't think willpower is the way to do that though.

Modifié par termokanden, 25 août 2011 - 04:00 .

[The-Visonary]

termokanden wrote...

Well I guess I'll check later to see how it worked out.

I always build Leliana to have just enough strength and dex to use the best leather armor and bow and spend everything else on cunning. My priorities for Leliana are as follows:

1. Pick locks/disarm traps.
2. Keep up Song of Courage.
3. Provide a bit of DPS.
4. Scattershot.
.
.
.
25. Maybe other abilities, if she has stamina for it.

She's pure support in my games, but you could easily build her to be more efficient in combat. I don't think willpower is the way to do that though.

 

Willpower is needed because of her abilities like Pinning shot and Crippling shot. Constantly using them and her other abilities; as well as sustaining her buffs for the whole party; takes up alot of staimina. 

You could always outfit her with gear hat gives a bounus to stamina or stamina regen.  

The Leliana build you posted is what I kinda use except scattershot is replaced with Arrow of Slaying.  

My build is like this 

Max out lockpicking and stealth, get Arrow of Slaying quick to get rid of mages, and last is scattershot for crowd control.

[gandanlin]

Well, she is at lvl 20 and fine. It is difficult to make comparisons to other playthroughs because the Warden this time is a rogue who is killing everything in sight, but so far Leliana is somewhere around 18% of total party damage. Which isn't real bad.

I'm not totally sold on the outcome, in any event. It hasn't really changed her overall performance a whole lot that I can see. She fires more talent-based shots and knocks down a lot of enemies with some of those shots. Hard to know how much value to put on that.

I've built Leliana a number of different ways. I've always sort of wondered if gaining 2 or 3 points in damage (cunning) was more desirable than gaining enough stamina (willpower) to fire another talent-based shot or two.

Even after the experiment I'm still not sure there is much difference one way or the other.

[The-Visonary]

Usually damage is better instead of Willpower to fire off spells or talents(imo)

[Last Darkness]

Ive actualy seen a intresting variation of this build for a warrior thats Berserker/Templar/Spirit Warrior thats more Willpower focused to enhance its AOES and use Final Blow from Berserker.

[The-Visonary]

I've seen that build too, but for one of my warriors went Champion/Reaver/Spirit Warrior.

[termokanden]

The-Visonary wrote...

Willpower is needed because of her abilities like Pinning shot and Crippling shot. Constantly using them and her other abilities; as well as sustaining her buffs for the whole party; takes up alot of staimina. 

Those two abilities are a good example of why I don't spend points on willpower. They aren't particularly powerful and certainly not necesary. Sure you can use them, but you could just as easily not care if you don't have the stamina to spam them. Like I said, I use Leliana as a support character. That's not the only way to do it, or the only way to use here as a support character. But you don't NEED to invest in willpower.

[The-Visonary]

I also use her as a support character but I usually use gear that gives a bonus to stamina or stamina regen. What you said about willpower isnt needed and you can neglect those two abilities, I sometimes give her points into willpower and use them against heavily armored foes, but thats me.

[Fallstar]

In my previous characters, Leliana's only uses were as a buffer (Song of Courage) and lockpicker/trap disarmer. I think she may have had a less than 10% party damage contribution on my dual wielding warrior, I'll check now.

On a side note, what are people's party damage contribution %s for various warrior builds?

I've got 46% as a 2 hander (few points in will, max str) 56% as a dual wielding warrior (36 dex, max str) and 61% as a primal/spirit focused mage.

Modifié par DuskWarden, 29 août 2011 - 04:47 .

[gandanlin]

My % total party damage scores vary so much from game to game I sort of gave up comparing them. 10% for Leliana is a lower number than I usually get for her, but we very well could be playing very different styles of combat.

The highest score I ever got from Leliana was when I played an archer Warden and the team was made up of 2 archers, a 2H warrior and a S/S warrior. If I recall correctly, she was doing about 24% of total party damage that game. Once both of the archers had scattershot and I figured out how to get them to use it in sequence, there many occasions where the melee fighters never needed to swing a blow.

[termokanden]

I think my 2h warriors are at about 70% or something like that. Starts out a bit lower, gets a bit higher and then gets lower as I get around to upgrading companion gear. But my playstyle is very focused on the main character. Everything else is support, and often I don't really get around to gearing them properly, and I'm often lazy with the tactics. Alistair is the exception. I love turning him into a beast by the end of the game for some reason, and he's the reason my damage contribution percentage will drop by the end of the game.