32 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

I've been growing more fond of rogues lately regardless of the build. There's simply more depth to them than there is with warriors. If replaying the game for the 15th-20th time has made things feel stale, try doing a rogue run, and use stealth liberally. Vary the frequency of your backstabs. Use dirty fighting, below the belt and all the other little rogue gimmicks. Try collecting +critical/backstab damage gear, and augment them with a couple of Songs of Courage (yes, they diabolically  stack) Try spamming poisons and oils while you're at it  (those stack too)

Then behold the beauty and sheer power of a true rogue as he's *meant* to be played.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 29 août 2011 - 10:14 .

[TheBigMatt90]

Like LastDarkness I have played the game as a warrior, actually the build he suggested, and done a bit of testing between dag/dag and 2 large weapons. There is no comparison between the dps between daggers and longswords. The fact is, I can manage 300-400 dps in Originswith daggers and i'm not exactly the best player. I can't get to that with longswords no matter what I spam. And then in Awakening with Spirit Warrior the dps has been jacked up to a total other level. With daggers I can hit 300+ damage per hit, hitting almost 2 times a second, and thats before hexes/poisons/enchantments, no longsword damage can come close.

[Fallstar]

TheBigMatt90 wrote...

Like LastDarkness I have played the game as a warrior, actually the build he suggested, and done a bit of testing between dag/dag and 2 large weapons. There is no comparison between the dps between daggers and longswords. The fact is, I can manage 300-400 dps in Originswith daggers and i'm not exactly the best player. I can't get to that with longswords no matter what I spam. And then in Awakening with Spirit Warrior the dps has been jacked up to a total other level. With daggers I can hit 300+ damage per hit, hitting almost 2 times a second, and thats before hexes/poisons/enchantments, no longsword damage can come close.

Then you aren't using any kind of aoe abilites. Whirwind when surrounded by say four enemies will triple what you say you can do with daggers. Even dual weapon sweep will double it. And on a single target, Punisher blows that dps out of the water. You're main problem seems to be that you're not using dual Veshialles. If you have 36 dex and max strength, that strength modifer (1.1) makes a reasonable difference. 

Modifié par DuskWarden, 29 août 2011 - 04:31 .

[Last Darkness]

DuskWarden wrote...

TheBigMatt90 wrote...

Like LastDarkness I have played the game as a warrior, actually the build he suggested, and done a bit of testing between dag/dag and 2 large weapons. There is no comparison between the dps between daggers and longswords. The fact is, I can manage 300-400 dps in Originswith daggers and i'm not exactly the best player. I can't get to that with longswords no matter what I spam. And then in Awakening with Spirit Warrior the dps has been jacked up to a total other level. With daggers I can hit 300+ damage per hit, hitting almost 2 times a second, and thats before hexes/poisons/enchantments, no longsword damage can come close.

Then you aren't using any kind of aoe abilites. Whirwind when surrounded by say four enemies will triple what you say you can do with daggers. Even dual weapon sweep will double it. And on a single target, Punisher blows that dps out of the water. You're main problem seems to be that you're not using dual Veshialles. If you have 36 dex and max strength, that strength modifer (1.1) makes a reasonable difference. 

Problem still is the enemies die fast, and you can hold aggro and tank more than reasonably well.
Duel Veshialle @110+ Strength is awesome but you start to have to much over kill and wasted damage or time, plus your still on the lower end of the defense score spectrum.

[TheBigMatt90]

What I was talking about there was single target. Also, those skills have cooldowns, if you are out of stamina you cant use them. And you have less defence so you are even less survivable which is the problem with the DW warrior. And I don't agree that punisher blows them out of the water anyway. Even if it does, the time you use punisher most is on bosses right? So what do you do between them, slowly swing your axes and wait for the cooldown? Because that dps in between is guaranteed to be lower than dagger auto attacks.
If i am surrounded by 4 enemies they would usually be trash, don't forget that I also would have whirlwind, and ww with daggers still kills trash.
Oh and yes I was testing with dual Veshialles, and daggers were The Rose's Thorn and The Edge. Btw on your character screen how much damage does it say you have per hand? As in under Armor/Atk/Def it has dam. Just wondering.

Modifié par TheBigMatt90, 31 août 2011 - 10:18 .

[Tabaab]

Best DPS warrior?

Definitely a DW warrior with Berserker and Templar specializations (and Spirit Warrior, if you have Awakening etc.)

What are the best weapons for a DPS DW Warrior?

I hear a lot about daggers being faster than axes or longswords, and therefore better for DPS. But axes have better damage and attribute modifier, and longswords have even better damage than axes. I did some math (yes, that's how I get my kicks) to compare daggers and axes. So let's find out which is better, shall we.

Please feel free to correct me, I might have forgotten something from these calculations. The formulas are from dragonage.wikia.com and the damage range average is from Discobirds "DPS calculations for a DW rogue"


First we need to look at the attack speed to see if daggers are the faster after all.

The formula for the final attack speed(AttackDuration) is:
(BaseTiming + WeaponSpeedMod) * CharacterSpeedModifier

Waraxes:
(1.5s + -0.1) * 0.5 (If you use Momentum + Swift Salve/Blood Thirst/Blessing of the Fade)=0.7, which means one attack takes 0.7s, so in one second you attack 1.429 times.

Daggers:
(1.5s + -0.5) * 0.5 (If you use Momentum + Swift Salve/Blood Thirst/Blessing of the Fade)=0.5, which means that in one second you attack twice

Okay, so daggers are faster.


Now we need to calculate the base damage for both of the weapons, so we can apply the speed factor to get the actual DPS of each. 

The formula for Damage is:
BaseWeaponDmg(this involves the damage range) + AttributeDmg + CharacterDmgBonus + OnHitDamage - ArmorDmgReduction

I'm going to ignore the armor reduction, because I'm lazy and also Spirit Warriors don't need to worry about armor - their attacks do spirit damage instead of physical. Without the specialization armor penetration might become an issue, though.

I'm also going to ignore the OnHitDamage and CharacterDmgBonus, because we're talking about warriors here and you can get the same OnHitDamage stuff for both daggers and axes.

The AttributeDmg is a little tricky, and there might be something I haven't considered or understood here. Axes use only STR to determine the attribute modifier where daggers use both STR and DEX (assuming you have at least patch 1.02).


So let's calculate the damage for axes and daggers. I'll use two examples, first a level12 warrior and a level 24 warrior, without tomes or ...other attribute enhancing. Let's say that the weapons are dragonbone, for the sake of comparability.

The formula for AttributeBasedDmg when one character attribute is used is:
(Attribute Value - 10) * Weapon Attribute Modifier * Weapon Style Modifier

AttributeBaseDmg for Waraxe (level12):
If you put everything in STR right after you reached 36 in DEX(to be able to DW two fullsize axes) you should be at 31 STR

21 * 1.10 * 0.375 = 8.6625

AttributeBaseDmg for Waraxe (level24):
If you put everything in STR right after you reached 36 in DEX(to be able to DW two fullsize axes) you should be at 67 STR

57 * 1.10 * 0.375 = 23.5125


Damage for Waraxe at lvl12:

AVERAGE(9.6, 9.6 * 1.4) + 8.6625 = 20.1825

Damage for Waraxe at lvl24:

AVERAGE(9.6, 9.6 * 1.4) + 23.5125 = 35.0325


The formula for AttributeBasedDmg when two char attributes are used is:
0.5 * (Attribute Value1 + Value2 - 20) * Weapon Attribute Modifier * Weapon Style Modifier

AttributeBaseDmg for Dagger (level12):
The formula suggests that it doesn't matter if you put your attribute points in STR or DEX, it's the grand total that matters. At level 12 that would be 67 (34 starting stats in DEX & STR + 33 from 11 levels.)

0.5 * 47 * 0.85 * 0.375 = 7.490625

AttributeBaseDmg for Dagger (level24):
At level 24 The sum of attribute points in STR + DEX should be 103

0.5 * 83 * 0.85 * 0.375 = 13.228125


Damage for Dagger at lvl12:

AVERAGE(6.4, 6.4 * 1.5) + 7.490625 = 15.490625

Damage for Dagger at lvl24:

AVERAGE(6.4, 6.4 * 1.5) + 13.228125 = 21.228125


So now we have the damage values of both axe and dagger and it's time to multiply them with how many attacks per second they both do.

Waraxe(lvl12):
1.429 * 20.1825 = 28.84 Dmg/s - average

Waraxe(lvl24):
1.429 * 35.0325 = 50.06 Dmg/s - average

Dagger(lvl12):
2 * 15.490625 = 30.98 Dmg/s - average

Dagger(lvl24):
2 * 21.228125 = 42.46 Dmg/s - average


In conclusion, it seems that daggers are a bit better in the early-to-mid stages of the game. Wararaxes catch up though, and surpass the daggers in the mid-to-end portion of the game. So, guess I'll be using axes from now on, eh?

On a curiosity I calculated the same thing for Longswords(lvl24), and it's 50.55 Dmg/s - average... 

Modifié par Tabaab, 24 septembre 2011 - 04:40 .

[Tabaab]

Of course daggers benefit more from damage runes and berserking, because these contribute absolute damage to the damage output, and faster attack rate gives daggers a slight advantage.

Modifié par Tabaab, 24 septembre 2011 - 05:28 .

[TBastian]

With Awakenings I vote an archer-type Spirit Warrior, simply because his range allows him to DPS without being disturbed (in actual combat a melee warrior would spend a lot of his time getting knockbacked/knocked down/grabbed/stunned/slowed/etc). He also doesn't need to reposition constantly, which is usually the case for melee warriors (in actual gameplay a character actually reaching max DPS for more than a few seconds is very rare, a lot of the time he needs to be moving constantly because his target died/flew away/transformed into something else/cast some unique skill/etc).

Origins is the tricky part, and imo this is a tossup between a very particular dual-wield build and a pure strength two-hander build.

Modifié par TBastian, 25 septembre 2011 - 12:13 .