1310 réponses à ce sujet

[EternalPink]

Guldhun2 wrote...

EternalPink wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Inge Shepard wrote...

Is this article some how available in English? Because I'm going to report this company to the Data lnspectorate.

You should make a new thread about his, questioning the legality of Origin's (EA's) actions.

It is legal in the EU, they are informing you in the EULA that they will breach your privacy and sell that info to a third party. As long as they tell you that, it is legal.

I dont think thats the case otherwise you could get away with anything by making people sign a waiver/accept a EULA

http://europa.eu/rap...rence=IP/09/571

The EU Directive on privacy and electronic communications requires EU Member
States to ensure confidentiality of the communications by prohibiting unlawful
interception and surveillance unless the users concerned have given their
consent. The EU Data Protection Directive specifies that a person must
freely give specific consent and be informed before their personal information
is processed.


Clicking YES or AGREE when it asks if you agree with the EULA is giving your consent.

I've bolded the two important bits, its not freely if its required to use and your unable to get a refund (try taking a open game back to a shop and ask for a refund becuz you didn't accept the EULA) and its not specific since you are agreeing that they can scan your entire PC.

Modifié par EternalPink, 27 août 2011 - 01:19 .

[eye basher]

so do i have to pay for origin?

[Urazz]

Robhuzz wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

LOL I love how some people say "its fighting piracy"... by violating the privacy of people who legitimately bought the game.

Awesome to hear those comments indeed, while it's the legit players who are (usually adversely) affected by it. Pirates crack the game within 1 - 3 days and can play the game properly without installing annoying additional software.

Legit players don't have anything to hide though so it's not an issue for them about privacy in my opinion.  But like you said it doesn't stop the Pirates from cracking the game and allowing it to play without the additional software so really it's just a small delaying tactic that causes more annoyance to legit players than anything else.

[elitecom]

The important question is: Will Origin be required to play Mass Effect 3? It hasn't been answered yet, but I really hope the question is no, and really why would you need Origin in the first place? Mass Effect 3 isn't an online game with any online gameplay, why would Origin be required?

[Guldhun2]

Urazz wrote...
Legit players don't have anything to hide though so it's not an issue for them about privacy in my opinion.  But like you said it doesn't stop the Pirates from cracking the game and allowing it to play without the additional software so really it's just a small delaying tactic that causes more annoyance to legit players than anything else.

So people who do everything legal should have no privacy? Wait..what?

[Guldhun2]

elitecom wrote...

The important question is: Will Origin be required to play Mass Effect 3? It hasn't been answered yet, but I really hope the question is no, and really why would you need Origin in the first place? Mass Effect 3 isn't an online game with any online gameplay, why would Origin be required?

Mafia 2 isn't an online game with any online gameplay. Yet, steam is still required.

[LadyAlekto]

Reminds me somehow of orwell that train of thought....

[Melra]

At least it's not some freaking Games for Windows Live.... I can live with anything else.

[Dariuszp]

Guldhun2 wrote...

elitecom wrote...

The important question is: Will Origin be required to play Mass Effect 3? It hasn't been answered yet, but I really hope the question is no, and really why would you need Origin in the first place? Mass Effect 3 isn't an online game with any online gameplay, why would Origin be required?

Mafia 2 isn't an online game with any online gameplay. Yet, steam is still required.

But steam only ask about STEAM games, not all software on your computer.
Steam provide data about you to 3rd party software only if it's REQUIRED for you to use application you bought. 
You can always put steam to OFFLINE mode.
Steam require your hardawre configuration only if you want to be beta tester (for obvious reasons)
Steam use that info about you for THEIR purpose

What EA is asking in EULA of the Origin is that:
They can scan ALL your software on PC, not only theirs. More to that, they can track what you install/uinstall
EA can just give it away every data about you to anyone they want
They can use it for marketing purpose. It's same sittuation when Facebook take your picture, put it on advertisment and show it to you. So don't panic when you see your profile picture on EA ad or something
They can scan your hardware just for fun. To check what you have.
You have no control over your data so they can do whatever they like.

Also steam provide whole platform where you can buy games, DLC and other stuff. They provide demo versions. They patch your games and do loot of other good things.
When you use origin you just download game. You must patch it manualy or every game patch it itself. You must visit various sites to get dlc and stuff like that.

If any EA game that I would be interested in will use Origin I will not buy it. Never ever.

[Guldhun2]

Dariuszp wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

elitecom wrote...

The important question is: Will Origin be required to play Mass Effect 3? It hasn't been answered yet, but I really hope the question is no, and really why would you need Origin in the first place? Mass Effect 3 isn't an online game with any online gameplay, why would Origin be required?

Mafia 2 isn't an online game with any online gameplay. Yet, steam is still required.

But steam only ask about STEAM games, not all software on your computer.
Steam provide data about you to 3rd party software only if it's REQUIRED for you to use application you bought. 
You can always put steam to OFFLINE mode.
Steam require your hardawre configuration only if you want to be beta tester (for obvious reasons)
Steam use that info about you for THEIR purpose

What EA is asking in EULA of the Origin is that:
They can scan ALL your software on PC, not only theirs. More to that, they can track what you install/uinstall
EA can just give it away every data about you to anyone they want
They can use it for marketing purpose. It's same sittuation when Facebook take your picture, put it on advertisment and show it to you. So don't panic when you see your profile picture on EA ad or something
They can scan your hardware just for fun. To check what you have.
You have no control over your data so they can do whatever they like.

Also steam provide whole platform where you can buy games, DLC and other stuff. They provide demo versions. They patch your games and do loot of other good things.
When you use origin you just download game. You must patch it manualy or every game patch it itself. You must visit various sites to get dlc and stuff like that.

If any EA game that I would be interested in will use Origin I will not buy it. Never ever.

Yes, i know all that. But elitecom was saying that Origin wouldn't be required because ME3 is offline. But that doesn't matter. There's plenty of offline games that work with steam.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Urazz wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

LOL I love how some people say "its fighting piracy"... by violating the privacy of people who legitimately bought the game.

Awesome to hear those comments indeed, while it's the legit players who are (usually adversely) affected by it. Pirates crack the game within 1 - 3 days and can play the game properly without installing annoying additional software.

Legit players don't have anything to hide though so it's not an issue for them about privacy in my opinion.  But like you said it doesn't stop the Pirates from cracking the game and allowing it to play without the additional software so really it's just a small delaying tactic that causes more annoyance to legit players than anything else.

I want to know where this completely nonsensical notion of "what, do you have something to hide?" came from.  It's utter BS.  It's never has been about having something to hide.  It's about privacy, as simple as that.  Whether you understand it or not, you have a right to privacy, we all do.  You have a right to have others know as little or as much about you as you like.  Even the "credit rating" most people have come to accept is really companies sharing information about you that they have no real right to share; they're just legally allowed to get away with it. 

[Reptillius]

I love how people pass around things as facts but don't keep up to date. The ambiguous wording that people tried to exploit to cause this outrage has been changed for the better.

if your going to keep pointing to the EULA as to what they can or can't do or what laws it is or is not breaking. Please try to keep up with these changes made. Continueing an argument over an ambiguity issue that is no longer an issue does not serve your cause or any one elses.

The ambiguous wording of software has been changed to specify specifically EA software connected to the Origin download Client and the Client itself and how they are used. it further goes on to clarify the kinds of information it collects which again. Many EULA's collect the same information from you and you haven't complained before and why they collect it. Despite what many try to claim this is information that has been collected for some time. Sometimes without the choice of opting out of it depending on the game and the developer if you wanted to play the game. Origin still has an opt out ability, or one that's since been implimented.

It is also information that really does help the industry because on the PC in particular. The more of this non-personal system information they collect that has higher capabilities the more they can increase what PC games are capable of using that our systems can do.

I myself pray for a day again when my Gaming PC is put to the test by something other than say World of Warcraft on Ultra settings for example... But I have to wait for a whole lot of that non-personal system information to be collected for it to catch up somewhat.

If you really want to see games improve for the PC. Share that information and get others you know that play it to do the same periodically so the games actually can improve because they will continue to write for the majority of the market and if everything they are getting is still telling them the majority of the market is lower end. They will write the software with that lower end in mind.

And if anybody wishes to know why I have my stance at this point as to why I can speak to these points. I have family members that work in Insurance... A legalese heavy industry. There are more dangers and loopholes in many property owner insurance policies than there are in your average EULA. Ambiuous statements or not. one example being that you should read your flood insurance closely... It might cover you if your local river overflows or you live in a floodplain for but might not cover the water damage done to your property when Heavy Winds rip the roof off your house in a rainstorm for example.

[Eradyn]

Guldhun2 wrote...

Urazz wrote...
Legit players don't have anything to hide though so it's not an issue for them about privacy in my opinion.  But like you said it doesn't stop the Pirates from cracking the game and allowing it to play without the additional software so really it's just a small delaying tactic that causes more annoyance to legit players than anything else.

So people who do everything legal should have no privacy? Wait..what?

Exactly.


And yeah, I had no idea about ME3 and Origin.  I've been following TOR pretty religiously at this point (and thankfully EA/BW addressed that Origin would not, in any way, be required for TOR beyond purchasing the digital format via the Origin store) and am glad that game will be safe from this monstrosity.  Count me as one of those gamers who will, absolutely and without hesitation, cancel their CE preorder for ME3 if Origin is at all required for that game.  I will be more than happy to just watch YouTube videos to get my Garrus/ME3 story fix.

Reptillius wrote...

I love how people pass around things
as facts but don't keep up to date. The ambiguous wording that people
tried to exploit to cause this outrage has been changed for the better.

*snip*

And are they going to change the Origin software itself? Have they declared if the software is necessary or not? EULAs change.  They can change very, very easily and very quickly.  As EA/BW has demonstrated.  I would want their unwavering declaration that this "service" will not ever be required to download, install, activate, or run the game.  I don't mind logging into one's Origin Account (basically the new EA accounts), but I'm talking about the Origin software itself.

Modifié par Eradyn, 27 août 2011 - 03:11 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Guldhun2 wrote...

EternalPink wrote...

Guldhun2 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Inge Shepard wrote...

Is this article some how available in English? Because I'm going to report this company to the Data lnspectorate.

You should make a new thread about his, questioning the legality of Origin's (EA's) actions.

It is legal in the EU, they are informing you in the EULA that they will breach your privacy and sell that info to a third party. As long as they tell you that, it is legal.

I dont think thats the case otherwise you could get away with anything by making people sign a waiver/accept a EULA

http://europa.eu/rap...rence=IP/09/571

The EU Directive on privacy and electronic communications requires EU Member
States to ensure confidentiality of the communications by prohibiting unlawful
interception and surveillance unless the users concerned have given their
consent. The EU Data Protection Directive specifies that a person must
freely give specific consent and be informed before their personal information
is processed.


Clicking YES or AGREE when it asks if you agree with the EULA is giving your consent.

Does making the purchase of a good or service contingent on that "YES" allow for consent freely given?  Or does that become a matter of coercion?  

Ohers have noted that in Canada, making the provision of a good or service contingent on that "YES" is illegal. 

[RAF1940]

I hate EA. I really do.

[SalsaDMA]

Urazz wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

LOL I love how some people say "its fighting piracy"... by violating the privacy of people who legitimately bought the game.

Awesome to hear those comments indeed, while it's the legit players who are (usually adversely) affected by it. Pirates crack the game within 1 - 3 days and can play the game properly without installing annoying additional software.

Legit players don't have anything to hide though so it's not an issue for them about privacy in my opinion.  But like you said it doesn't stop the Pirates from cracking the game and allowing it to play without the additional software so really it's just a small delaying tactic that causes more annoyance to legit players than anything else.

I take it you think it's perfectly normal to walk nude in the street if there is nothing wrong with you cause you "got nothing to hide" too?

Or do you in fact prefer the privacy of choosing who get to see you without clothes on?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Reptillius wrote...

I love how people pass around things as facts but don't keep up to date. The ambiguous wording that people tried to exploit to cause this outrage has been changed for the better.

if your going to keep pointing to the EULA as to what they can or can't do or what laws it is or is not breaking. Please try to keep up with these changes made. Continueing an argument over an ambiguity issue that is no longer an issue does not serve your cause or any one elses.

The ambiguous wording of software has been changed to specify specifically EA software connected to the Origin download Client and the Client itself and how they are used. it further goes on to clarify the kinds of information it collects which again. Many EULA's collect the same information from you and you haven't complained before and why they collect it. Despite what many try to claim this is information that has been collected for some time. Sometimes without the choice of opting out of it depending on the game and the developer if you wanted to play the game. Origin still has an opt out ability, or one that's since been implimented.

It is also information that really does help the industry because on the PC in particular. The more of this non-personal system information they collect that has higher capabilities the more they can increase what PC games are capable of using that our systems can do.

I myself pray for a day again when my Gaming PC is put to the test by something other than say World of Warcraft on Ultra settings for example... But I have to wait for a whole lot of that non-personal system information to be collected for it to catch up somewhat.

If you really want to see games improve for the PC. Share that information and get others you know that play it to do the same periodically so the games actually can improve because they will continue to write for the majority of the market and if everything they are getting is still telling them the majority of the market is lower end. They will write the software with that lower end in mind.

And if anybody wishes to know why I have my stance at this point as to why I can speak to these points. I have family members that work in Insurance... A legalese heavy industry. There are more dangers and loopholes in many property owner insurance policies than there are in your average EULA. Ambiuous statements or not. one example being that you should read your flood insurance closely... It might cover you if your local river overflows or you live in a floodplain for but might not cover the water damage done to your property when Heavy Winds rip the roof off your house in a rainstorm for example.

What a load of crap. 

First, the EULA is meaningless, worth as much as if it were printed on toilet paper and flushed.  No EULA has ever held up in court either way.   I don't give a damn about the EULA.

Second, it's about what Origin is capable of, which goes far beyond just this violation of privacy.  Software has often tried to collect and report system information -- hardware and OS data -- looking at all software installed, browsing history, etc, and  being able to delete or disable software at will is something new. 

Third, if they want my help improving their games, they can pay me.

[Mister Mida]

The funny thing about EULA and other variants is that you're actually agreeing to them when you purchase the product. However, the industry does a very smart thing by not putting the LA on the 'box'. So if you don't agree with it, you practically already threw your money away.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Mister Mida wrote...

The funny thing about EULA and other variants is that you're actually agreeing to them when you purchase the product. However, the industry does a very smart thing by not putting the LA on the 'box'. So if you don't agree with it, you practically already threw your money away.

Your "agreement" to a EULA is largely meaningless.  

They used to be called "shrinkwrap licenses" because you supposedly agreed when you tore open the shrinkwrap. 

[Nathander Von Eric]

Urazz wrote...
Legit players don't have
anything to hide though so it's not an issue for them about privacy in my
opinion. But like you said it doesn't stop the Pirates from cracking the game
and allowing it to play without the additional software so really it's just a
small delaying tactic that causes more annoyance to legit players than anything
else.

It's not a question of having anything to hide.

It's a fact that it's none of EA/Bioware's business what I have on my PC
or what I do with it. They're a games company that is demanding far more
importance and power for themselves than they deserve if people want to use
their products.

People have a right in most countries to a reasonable amount of privacy in their personal lives. In fact there are laws in most countries protecting those rights.

And they want people to install a platform that obviously has a very intrusive bit of software in it that could
give them carte blanche to retrieve information from your system, program & hard drive.

It is a privacy issue! It's also an issue of blindly giving up your rights to a
corporation and, by the corporations ownership of, a games company.

If a government attempted to pull a stunt like this it would be headline breaking
international news.

But since it's a games company major news sources will ignore it until we gamers cause enough stink over it. And it is up to us as a community of gamers to say "No. That is much too much and I won't stand for it!"

Mass Effect 3 is going to be an awesome game. We all know it.


But no game is worth as much as you will have to pay to play it if you are paying for it not only with money but also by willingly relinquishing privacy rights as well.

So the issue and the question is will Origin be required to play Mass Effect 3.

I'm a 45 year old guy and I've been playing video games since the beginning. Gaming has been very much a part of my life.

I'd chuck every game I have onto a burning pyre and give them up forever before I give up my rights just to play them.

And I don't care how many times they rewrite the EULA. EA has proven itself unworthy of trust after that whole SecuRom debacle and haven't done anything remotely close to earning that trust back yet.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 27 août 2011 - 03:26 .

[GamerJ]

i got origin from ea, its just like steam.. you can turn it off and its only there to download ur game and start it up no need to worrie i guess =-| or else i will eat ea out of fustration if they set me up and spy me =-@

[Mister Mida]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

The funny thing about EULA and other variants is that you're actually agreeing to them when you purchase the product. However, the industry does a very smart thing by not putting the LA on the 'box'. So if you don't agree with it, you practically already threw your money away.

Your "agreement" to a EULA is largely meaningless.  

They used to be called "shrinkwrap licenses" because you supposedly agreed when you tore open the shrinkwrap. 

That's my point. You're 'agreeing' to something without knowing.

[RAF1940]

Dionkey wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Wow, they monitor everything you do...what a joke...


Now I'm actually glad I have to play games on the 360.

Just so you know, BF3 will require you to sign up for Origin, regardless of platform. Not sure about anything else.

Huh? I pre-ordered BF3 at GameStop and I didn't have to sign up.....

No, but the game will require you to make an Origin account upon release.

SOURCE: http://bf3blog.com/2...-battlefield-3/

Well, I'm not getting BF3 anymore.

[Eradyn]

GamerJ wrote...

i got origin from ea, its just like steam.. you can turn it off and its only there to download ur game and start it up no need to worrie i guess =-| or else i will eat ea out of fustration if they set me up and spy me =-@

Valve limits Steam to just collecting Valve/Steam-related info.  Origin is designed (and their EULA--which is ultimately worthless--admits as much) to have far more reach *insert joke here* and a greater range of permissions.  Origin is, perhaps literally, "official" spyware.

[RAF1940]

Eradyn wrote...

GamerJ wrote...

i got origin from ea, its just like steam.. you can turn it off and its only there to download ur game and start it up no need to worrie i guess =-| or else i will eat ea out of fustration if they set me up and spy me =-@

Valve limits Steam to just collecting Valve/Steam-related info.  Origin is designed (and their EULA--which is ultimately worthless--admits as much) to have far more reach *insert joke here* and a greater range of permissions.  Origin is, perhaps literally, "official" spyware.

Pretty much. Can it be quarantined with anti-virus?