1310 réponses à ce sujet

[Eradyn]

RAF1940 wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

GamerJ wrote...

i got origin from ea, its just like steam.. you can turn it off and its only there to download ur game and start it up no need to worrie i guess =-| or else i will eat ea out of fustration if they set me up and spy me =-@

Valve limits Steam to just collecting Valve/Steam-related info.  Origin is designed (and their EULA--which is ultimately worthless--admits as much) to have far more reach *insert joke here* and a greater range of permissions.  Origin is, perhaps literally, "official" spyware.

Pretty much. Can it be quarantined with anti-virus?

Won't know until someone tries it.  I definitely won't be the first, though; I might not even end up getting the game unless EA clarifies, beforehand, just how necessary they are going to make Origin.

[Reptillius]

Eradyn wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

I love how people pass around things
as facts but don't keep up to date. The ambiguous wording that people
tried to exploit to cause this outrage has been changed for the better.

*snip*

And are they going to change the Origin software itself? Have they declared if the software is necessary or not? EULAs change.  They can change very, very easily and very quickly.  As EA/BW has demonstrated.  I would want their unwavering declaration that this "service" will not ever be required to download, install, activate, or run the game.  I don't mind logging into one's Origin Account (basically the new EA accounts), but I'm talking about the Origin software itself.

If you read the stuff on the EULA and the stuff on the client itself. It states at this point that it only needs to be installed with digital copies of games (with a couple of online exceptions that we know of) at this point.  Because it's how you actually get your digital copy of the game from EA itself and that you leave it installed but it is simply needed to verify that is a valid copy and to keep your digital copies valid since they are linked to the client you need to keep the client installed.

At this point the way everything reads you do not need the client for hard copies of the games or when the game is bought from other places digitally.  of course other digital providers at this point are having a growing trend it seems to have their own downloaders however not all of them have made theirs mandatory.

The reality is also that except for clarifying wording the EULA for the service has not really changed. Clarifying wording that you have all been demanding by the way. Granted it's wording that should have been fixed to begin with but only really blew out of proportion when certain people decided to abuse how it could be read for their own gains. Another small change is that they have also linked the EULA to the overall privacy policy of EA's site and store as well. Which again reiterates and restates a much more truthful and limiting list of what they do collect and why than what many try to make it out to be. So in the future they would have to change two documents to suit one.

This is why I ask those that want to continue using this point as an outrage and trying to outrage others to their side to please keep up to date with these things.


As for one particular player demanding that you be paid for providing such information.  You are being paid in effect because as long as you and many others decide to opt out of providing such information. You will not get the gains in PC Gaming Performance that you are asking for.  When you and many others do. You will see improvements of the games that become available for PC'sin the future or perhaps even improvements in things like the High Res Packs that become available based on those non-personal technical details they collect.  So even if it's not monetarily. You are getting gains when you submit that information.  If your holding out for money. Then don't submit it. I can only hope enough others actually want to see games improve enough to actually be willing to submit said information because otherwise game capabilities will continue to stagnate for the most part or stay on the lower side of the available current/near current tech.

Modifié par Reptillius, 27 août 2011 - 03:33 .

[Reptillius]

Eradyn wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

GamerJ wrote...

i got origin from ea, its just like steam.. you can turn it off and its only there to download ur game and start it up no need to worrie i guess =-| or else i will eat ea out of fustration if they set me up and spy me =-@

Valve limits Steam to just collecting Valve/Steam-related info.  Origin is designed (and their EULA--which is ultimately worthless--admits as much) to have far more reach *insert joke here* and a greater range of permissions.  Origin is, perhaps literally, "official" spyware.

Pretty much. Can it be quarantined with anti-virus?

Won't know until someone tries it.  I definitely won't be the first, though; I might not even end up getting the game unless EA clarifies, beforehand, just how necessary they are going to make Origin.

This actually isn't true... and for some games with Steam you have to sign a second EULA for the game itself seperate from the service which may collect information on it's own or be provided with any and all information that Steam collects as well for their own myriad of uses.

So No it is not actually spyware any more than Steam is.

[Eradyn]

Reptillius wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

And are they going to change the Origin software itself? Have they declared if the software is necessary or not? EULAs change.  They can change very, very easily and very quickly.  As EA/BW has demonstrated.  I would want their unwavering declaration that this "service" will not ever be required to download, install, activate, or run the game.  I don't mind logging into one's Origin Account (basically the new EA accounts), but I'm talking about the Origin software itself.

If you read the stuff on the EULA and the stuff on the client itself. It states at this point that it only needs to be installed with digital copies of games (with a couple of online exceptions that we know of) at this point.  Because it's how you actually get your digital copy of the game from EA itself and that you leave it installed but it is simply needed to verify that is a valid copy and to keep your digital copies valid since they are linked to the client you need to keep the client installed.

At this point the way everything reads you do not need the client for hard copies of the games or when the game is bought from other places digitally.  of course other digital providers at this point are having a growing trend it seems to have their own downloaders however not all of them have made theirs mandatory.

The reality is also that except for clarifying wording the EULA for the service has not really changed. Clarifying wording that you have all been demanding by the way. Granted it's wording that should have been fixed to begin with but only really blew out of proportion when certain people decided to abuse how it could be read for their own gains. Another small change is that they have also linked the EULA to the overall privacy policy of EA's site and store as well. Which again reiterates and restates a much more truthful and limiting list of what they do collect and why than what many try to make it out to be. So in the future they would have to change two documents to suit one.

This is why I ask those that want to continue using this point as an outrage and trying to outrage others to their side to please keep up to date with these things.

*Snip*

And that's the thing, the service hasn't really changed.  I don't care what the EULA tries to "clarify," because EULAs can and do change.  It's all part of the "agreement."  What I'm more concerned about is the software's capabilities (which have been suggested, or clearly stated, by the EULA) and potential for abuse (by EA themselves, or outside parties who hack the system).  That's what I take umbrage with.  I hope you will forgive me, but I think I would rather wait to see what EA specifically states regarding the necessity of Origin, the software, for downloading, installing, activating, and playing their games.  And as you admitted, it's only "at this point".

There is a reason BW/EA had to clarify on Origin's necessity (or, rather, lack of necessity) for SWTOR: which is, that it is not at all required for even downloading the game from the Origin store.  You will not need the Origin software for TOR.  I want that type of assurance for ME3, or else I will be cancelling my preorder.  I'm sure they won't miss me, but that's fair enough as I would not miss them in such a case.

Reptillius wrote...

This actually isn't true... and for some games with Steam you have to sign a
second EULA for the game itself seperate from the service which may
collect information on it's own or be provided with any and all
information that Steam collects as well for their own myriad of uses.
So No it is not actually spyware any more than Steam is.

Actually, you are incorrect.  If there are additional requirements beyond Steam, then that is on the game's publisher and not Steam.  Steam, itself, is not nearly as far reaching as Origin (the software).  Origin's far broader capabilities and permissions are akin to spyware.  Whether you are fine with that or not is your perogative, but playing shill for EA (are you, perhaps, an employee?) doesn't change the nature of the Origin software.

Modifié par Eradyn, 27 août 2011 - 03:50 .

[JGDD]

I've been looking through the updated EULA and other than some crafty trust us wording, it hasn't changed. They still have not changed what software or what hardware as well as applications (removed or not). This is still unacceptable. They even left in the 'agents working on our behalf'. For those that do not know, that means they can contract third party personnel to do the work for them.

Original EULA

Updated EULA

Section 2 reflects major recent changes. READ IT CAREFULLY.

If EA truly cared about its customers they would add an opt-out clause for data-mining. I do not mind a check that tells them the game was purchased by me. Beyond that they can bugger off.

Modifié par justgimmedudedammit, 27 août 2011 - 03:59 .

[anzolino]

@Guldhun2: Thanks for the link and the objection.

So, I'm feeling blackmailed with this EULA: I have to agree otherwise I cannot play. That isn't freely!
And in this context it is of course violating EU law. How about this?:

(...) Terminal equipment of users of electronic communications networks and any information stored on such equipment are part of the private sphere of the users requiring protection under the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. So-called spyware, web bugs, hidden identifiers and other similar devices can enter the user's terminal without their knowledge in order to gain access to information, to store hidden information or to trace the activities of the user and may seriously intrude upon the privacy of these users. The use of such devices should be allowed only for legitimate purposes, with the knowledge of the users concerned.(...) Directive on privacy and electronic communications

And last but not least:
(...) 2. Traffic data necessary for the purposes of subscriber billing and interconnection payments may be processed. Such processing is permissible only up to the end of the period during which the bill may lawfully be challenged or payment pursued.(...) Source is the same above.

Oh, what a surprise: Traffic data have to be deleted. If I bought a hard copy what is gathering my IP good for? No billing, no payment, nothing. So, for what else?

[Reptillius]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

I've been looking through the updated EULA and other than some crafty trust us wording, it hasn't changed. They still have not changed what software or what hardware as well as applications (removed or not). This is still unacceptable. They even left in the 'agents working on our behalf'. For those that do not know, that means they can contract third party personnel to do the work for them.

Original EULA

Updated EULA

Section 2 reflects major recent changes. READ IT CAREFULLY.

If EA truly cared about its customers they would add an opt-out clause for data-mining. I do not mind a check that tells them the game was purchased by me. Beyond that they can bugger off.

Your computer already has a quick list of what hardware and software spec's you have without going through your whole computer to figure out what is what.

It also clearly states that the Privacy policy over-rules the EULA where the EULA is inconsistant and the Privacy policy has a much more exacting list.  So I have read it carefully. I've also gone over the privacy policy.

Agents working on the behalf of EA are also contractually obligated to follow EA's EULA's and Privacy policies and such.  Also those agents while not directly being EA are linked to EA and cover things like their various subsidiary studio's.  it also directly states just what that information is used for.  which your choosing to ignore.

Also something to keep in mind is that almost no EULA has an opt out clause but some games provide it either when installing or as an Option in one menu or another anyway and EA has done this as well. You can always log into your profile and choose not to share that information. They have an opt out button in their settings for your client account.

Modifié par Reptillius, 27 août 2011 - 04:14 .

[JGDD]

Reptillius wrote...

Your computer already has a quick list of what hardware and software spec's you have without going through your whole computer to figure out what is what.

It also clearly states that the Privacy policy over-rules the EULA where the EULA is inconsistant and the Privacy policy has a much more exacting list.  So I have read it carefully. I've also gone over the privacy policy.

Agents working on the behalf of EA are also contractually obligated to follow EA's EULA's and Privacy policies and such.  Also those agents while not directly being EA are linked to EA and cover things like their various subsidiary studio's.  it also directly states just what that information is used for.  which your choosing to ignore.

Also something to keep in mind is that almost no EULA has an opt out clause but some games provide it either when installing or as an Option in one menu or another anyway and EA has done this as well. You can always log into your profile and choose not to share that information. They have an opt out button in their settings for your client account.

Of course my system specs are easily attainable. The matter at hand is whether they restrict themselves to just necessary parts. Stay out of my harddrive. Software, as stated in the EULA, is murky at best. My particular beef with this EULA is they are not clearly limiting to EA products only. The OS is understandable and I never had issues with that. The rest of my applications is of no concern to them. Period.

Yeah, I looked at their PP onsite and also their appendix for third party providers which have their own set of PP regulations. Did you catch how many have a no opt out option?

I said opt out of data-mining. Not the entire EULA.

Modifié par justgimmedudedammit, 27 août 2011 - 04:31 .

[Reptillius]

The option I spoke of in the online account for the Client has an option to opt out of purely the Data mining. There was another post about this linked somewhere in the last couple of days on these forums. Something off of the EA forums rather than just the bioware ones I believe.

So you can still opt out of the data mining. Even if it's not explicitely stated in the EULA. Though that list you link is a list purely of advertisers...

[elitecom]

Guldhun2 wrote...
Yes, i know all that. But elitecom was saying that Origin wouldn't be required because ME3 is offline. But that doesn't matter. There's plenty of offline games that work with steam.

I haven't said a thing regarding whether Origin would be required or not. I'm only saying that it doesn't make any sense for ME3 to use Origin, since it hasn't any use of Origin's functions.

My main reservation about being forced to use Origin is that you'd be forced to use Origin and thereby presumably having a constant internet connection. Something which is totally unnecessary for a singleplayer game.

[Nathander Von Eric]

Inge Shepard wrote...

If you have
notice how fast BW close threads that they don't approve, and this questions
still stand without any answer.
Well, since they are so silent about this. I
will say yes, you will need Origin installed for playing ME3.
That must be
the conclusion, since there is no answer.

I'm afraid you just may be right. Or, as has been previously stated, Bioware themselves do not
have a clear, honest answer to the question at this point in time.

I would much rather they just told us, yes, no or we don't know yet.

I can imagine the feces storm that would erupt on the forum over an I don't know
answer though so I can understand the silence if that is the case.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 27 août 2011 - 05:42 .

[jojon2se]

The obvious first function: Online authentication, once, when started for the first time, regardless of where you acquired your copy -- like Steam.
I do not know if this is what Origin does, but it is certainly something that I could personally live with, especially seeing as I only buy online anyway. Worse if you want to install on a device that is *never* online.

Other possible functions, for a single-player title:

- Notifying about-, downloading- and applying patches (automatically or upon player command), as well as other news and DLC, potentially making the latter purchaseable from within the game.
- Off-site storage of savegames, potentially allowing you to share them between installations on different machines.
- Telemetry, which helps developers detect glitches and design gaffes/successes -- this does not immediately benefit the player, but in the long run gained knowledge could give you quicker bug fixes and better designed games.
- I'm, sure there's something I missed.

These are all things that each title could and does implement at every level, on its own, but there are benefits to not reinventing the wheel every time.


BTW: Even if you don't have to run the Origin client to launch a game, that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't use any Origin services - it just needs to access relevant Origin DLLs.

[Dariuszp]

That's fine until you read about selling information about you to any company they see fit or using that information for advertisement.

[Nathander Von Eric]

Oh the answer will come. Obviously not as soon as some of us wanted it to but it will come either as a post on this forum or closer to release.

I have to admit if we have to wait until release to find out I will have written off this and future EA/Bioware titles by then.

I swore off purchasing any and all EA published games long ago and then Bioware joined with them and I changed my mind to "Just the Bioware games."

It seems I may just have to go back to my -- EA will never  see another cent of my money-- policy.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 27 août 2011 - 06:37 .

[jojon2se]

On the topic of EULAs, EULAs changing over time and acceptance-by-default; Somebody has a sense of humor:

http://www.escapistm...ion-Yes-Billion

[Nathander Von Eric]

Interesting.

Another thread on this very ME3 board received a comment from a Bioware person today while this one was left to just ride on.

Did I say interesting? Maybe I meant sad.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 27 août 2011 - 07:38 .

[EternalPink]

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

Interesting.

Another thread on this very ME3 board received a comment from a Bioware person today while this one was left to just ride on.

Did I say interesting? Maybe I meant sad.

at a guess the peeps with the pay grades that could answer this question don't work weekends.

[Nathander Von Eric]

Yeah I know. I was just being a smarta......er.....being facetious.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Reptillius is starting to give me the impression that he works for EA... If this is for digital download only though, I guess I'll just pick it up at best buy on the day it comes out.


-Polite

[Nathander Von Eric]

Absolutely. If a retail copy of Mass Effect 3 is Origin free it will be a day 1 purchase for me.
Heck, I'll have it on pre-order and paid for before it even releases.

[cocla]

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

*snip*

I swore off purchasing any and all EA published games long ago and then Bioware joined with them and I changed my mind to "Just the Bioware games."

It seems I may just have to go back to my -- EA will never  see another cent of my money-- policy.

Same here, I cant remember what year it was but I stopped buying EA a while before ME1 came out, since the company seems to like taking the evil/stupid stance over and over again.

Then they bought Bioware, and I continued buying Bioware games all the while hoping EA wouldnt ruin it but dreading the inevitable ball drop, and here we are.
 
I really hope they change the policy, as Bioware makes good games and I have bought almost every one they have put out. I will still buy ME3 for the 360, but after that (if the EULA doesn’t change enough) I wont be buying any more, even on the 360.
 
Reptillius has said the policy and interface have changed to what we are asking for, but I don’t see it. I have also read the EULA and PP, and my interpretation is it still effectively allows monitoring of computer software and usage with an ineffective opt-out (as it appears you have to request an opt-out from every advertising and data management company on the list, not just one request to EA). However if someone could post a screenshot of the Origin UI where he has said there is an opt-out option in the program (and possibly what is covered by the option) that would help clarify this discussion some.

[darthshepard1395]

wow. i dont think all that pc stuff is worth it....ps3 all the way