1310 réponses à ce sujet

[Reptillius]

billy the squid wrote...

EA's EULA, being more ambiguously worded that Steams already loosly worded EULA does not inspire a great deal of confidence.

Taken from EA's privacy policy http://www.ea.com/1/privacy-policy in combination with the Origin's EULA does not make me any more confident, as the privacy policy seems to cover the EULA superceeding the Origins terms 2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

S 3 Privacy Policy
"Information collected will vary depending upon the activity and may include your name, email address, phone number, home address, birth date, mobile phone number and credit card information."

Steam's own privacy policy only applies to software and hardware which interacts with its own applications, it is not something I would be particularly happy with, but as I currently don't have steam on my computer I am not going to condemn or condone. The third party developer collection is an issue, but I am currently unsure if steam allows the same lattitude in opting out or simply blocking such data collection. Whilst I am not, at the moment, inclined to trawl through every developer EULA and identify the iffy contractual terms. Yet, they don't appear to be on the same level as EA's current approach.

As to the retail purchase, I to tend to prefer this unfortunately I don't see EA being so easily circumvented, in such a way. I would think Ea will simply require online registration of the game at Origin before installation is permited.

keep in mind that the Privacy Policy for EA has a clause in there as to pertaining not only to the Store but to the eventual Online Games it will be running as well which may require a bit more information.  none of the EULA's are very comforting these days though sadly so I can understand the concern.

The non-digital purchases as of this point however do not require the downloader and you already technically have an origin account. They don't seem to be ready or feel the need so far with most of their games to make us install the client program to play our hard copies so to speak. Unless they change things in the next 6 months we'll just log in like we do to the current games just with our bioware/origin accounts.

Modifié par Reptillius, 29 août 2011 - 05:22 .

[JGDD]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Then you approve of EA collecting personal information of an undisclosed and undefined nature being collected, because it does not personally identify you, unless EA feels it is in its interests to disclose that information?

If it's meant to stop piracy, then so be it.

I also have nothing to hide, so I don't care.

hey... if they want something like my collection of adult entertainment or something.  More power to them. Otherwise they are just going to find a whole lot of video games and an empty spot where my lost music collection needs to be replaced and a lack of those soul stealing social things like face book and myspace... though I do have a couple of IM programs.

Hell I'll say what I have on my computer here:

Music
Games
Porn

That's it. I don't use my computer for anything else (except internet).

How fortunate for you. Others do use their computers for more than ****** machines. They do things like online bank statements, bill paying, storing personal contact info, important documents and the list goes on. Just because you are careless doesn't mean the smart users need to follow that path. And judging by why this thread was started in the first place, will not use Origin until the EULA has been worded in such a way as to be certain that their information stays theirs.

Stop assuming everyone is paranoid because of what concerns are voiced in here. They have a RIGHT to their privacy even when it comes to playing games.

[billy the squid]

Reptillius wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

EA's EULA, being more ambiguously worded that Steams already loosly worded EULA does not inspire a great deal of confidence.

Taken from EA's privacy policy http://www.ea.com/1/privacy-policy in combination with the Origin's EULA does not make me any more confident, as the privacy policy seems to cover the EULA superceeding the Origins terms 2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

S 3 Privacy Policy
"Information collected will vary depending upon the activity and may include your name, email address, phone number, home address, birth date, mobile phone number and credit card information."

Steam's own privacy policy only applies to software and hardware which interacts with its own applications, it is not something I would be particularly happy with, but as I currently don't have steam on my computer I am not going to condemn or condone. The third party developer collection is an issue, but I am currently unsure if steam allows the same lattitude in opting out or simply blocking such data collection. Whilst I am not, at the moment, inclined to trawl through every developer EULA and identify the iffy contractual terms. Yet, they don't appear to be on the same level as EA's current approach.

As to the retail purchase, I to tend to prefer this unfortunately I don't see EA being so easily circumvented, in such a way. I would think Ea will simply require online registration of the game at Origin before installation is permited.

keep in mind that the Privacy Policy for EA has a clause in there as to pertaining not only to the Store but to the eventual Online Games it will be running as well which may require a bit more information.  none of the EULA's are very comforting these days though sadly so I can understand the concern.

The non-digital purchases as of this point however do not require the downloader and you already technically have an origin account. They don't seem to be ready or feel the need so far with most of their games to make us install the client program to play our hard copies so to speak. Unless they change things in the next 6 months we'll just log in like we do to the current games just with our bioware/origin accounts.

I refer to the future digital purchases such as Battlefield 3, although I will not purchase it, simply as it is not really my type of game. This one has required Origin to play, although I am currently unsure whether that is due to the online multiplayer requirements. Yet, previous online or multiplayer games required an Origin or EA account, but the data collection, as far as I know, was not established at that point. 

EA's current approach cannot be used unless the individual accepts the EULA, which breaches British and EU legislation, I'm not sure about American. Hence, the move to enforce acceptance of a EULA to make the user of the application waive the inherrent privicy rights conferred by legislation, making it legal. Having an existing EA account I don't think allowed EA to rumage through one's computer system, as the orogin application is not installed. Something I think that will be moved towards on retail purchases as well as downloadable ones.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Reptillius wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Reptillius wrote...


I don't think it is, it is a third party distribution clause opt out, the inital terms for data collection still apply.

i haven't looked at it so I'm not sure what all it opts out of.  If you look at DAII just as an example it technically collects all your data whether it sends it or not. Many other games have those little configuration/system detail screens to their games these days.  Those are technically data collection even when they do not leave your computer.  They are also a good example of the kind of data that EA would be collecting in fair point.  Now some of them only update when you actually push an update button somewhere in the configuration stuff. Others collect those kind of details automatically from master settings/lists in the OS software.

Despite the rage against it in many of these forums. That data is a good thing. Bioware listens to us very well on story elements and game play and stuff certainly. But that is only part of the equation to making good games. That kind of non-specific data as time goes on actually lets them calculate and create more advanced games with better capability of taking advantage of our hardware when they create something like say DAIII or say ME Universe united or a new franchise or whatever.

I understand where some of the rage and desire for privacy comes from but at the same time Not everything they ask for is some kind of Devil's bargain.  What our systems are capable of plays a part in the forward movement of the industry as well. 

Other EULA that I have seen, have self restricting contract clauses, ie: collects data on a developer's software only, only hardware and software configurations linked to the developers application, administrative controls etc. In many cases it also allows the player to opt out as well. Although I don't like intrusive software on my system things like this I am willing to at least tolerate to an extent, as I have a degree of control and there are limits.

EA's consists of "we collect data we wish form your system, if you don't like it the don't install the game." EA has taken the data collection system of other developers and raised it to an entirely new level. Essentially making it a legitimate trojan horse, I don't particularly want such an application infesting my computer system.

Theirs is just more ambiguously worded...EULA's can be very subtly changed and still have dramatic impact keep in mind.  Also EA despite the anger they caused actually took things a step further as a result. They linked it to a second document. That of their overall privacy policy which does as you state. Have much more limiting and defining wording than a couple of the sections of the EULA itself.

Steams actually worries me a fair bit more than Origin does honestly because it passes the buck and your still potentially signing away your first born with them because while they have an EULA for the downloader. It states that the game that they are being the third party downloader for can have it's own demands that it can place on what information it gets from you reguardless of what Steam itself collects.  So you have the potential of an Origin style ambiguity or percieved threat hidden under the Steam one that many people may ignore because they feel safe with Steam.

I myself though... I'm a die hard old schooler. I love being able to hold the box in my hand and stick that DVD in the drive and listen to it spin up and I know some day I'll have to give that experience up jsut like I had to give up the nostalgic sound of dialup modems. But with this particular one I will work to keep it around for myself as long as I can before giving it up.

The day I can't get a hard copy of software is the day I stop buying software. 

[anzolino]

@The Big Bad Wolf: Because the want you as a permanent customer! You don't know which data they want to collect because they didn't explained yet. There is only "software". Ahh. Of course, not personally. How do you know that?

Reptillius wrote...
Actually in this modern age... IP Addresses are not necessarily as individually identifiable by the particular number as you would think. Many of us with highspeed internet actually share IP addresses with many other people and get new ones as we start up their services or periodically as IP addresses expire.

It can actually take legal reason to take that IP address and go to the companies that provide such service and use it to track down who was using that number at what time.

It is possible and practice in general. It doesn't matter if somebody else is using this IP three hours later. You/me/we can be identified and that makes it personally. That is the point and that is why they want your IP.
As I said before: If I buy a hard copy there is no reason to collect this data because I'm not playing online and I'm not buying online.

but yes... contract law is a nightmare...

They could make it easier but the question is: Do they want it? I don't think so. It's better if nobody understand it otherwise many people would be angry more often.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Reptillius wrote...
keep in mind that the Privacy Policy for EA has a clause in there as to pertaining not only to the Store but to the eventual Online Games it will be running as well which may require a bit more information.  none of the EULA's are very comforting these days though sadly so I can understand the concern.

The non-digital purchases as of this point however do not require the downloader and you already technically have an origin account. They don't seem to be ready or feel the need so far with most of their games to make us install the client program to play our hard copies so to speak. Unless they change things in the next 6 months we'll just log in like we do to the current games just with our bioware/origin accounts.

I hope your're right, and that hardcopy purchases of ME3 won't require the Origin spyware to be installed. 

I *WANT* to buy and play ME3. 

If you're wrong, I can't do buy it or install it. 

[billy the squid]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

How fortunate for you. Others do use their computers for more than ****** machines. They do things like online bank statements, bill paying, storing personal contact info, important documents and the list goes on. Just because you are careless doesn't mean the smart users need to follow that path. And judging by why this thread was started in the first place, will not use Origin until the EULA has been worded in such a way as to be certain that their information stays theirs.

Stop assuming everyone is paranoid because of what concerns are voiced in here. They have a RIGHT to their privacy even when it comes to playing games.

When did I say otherwise? And you are also forgetting that Ea is not taking personal information that can identify you, and all the things you listed fall under that.

And then it just falls down to common sense. Why would EA do something that is blatantly illegal?

Read your terms and conditions!

Taken from EA's privacy policy http://www.ea.com/1/privacy-policy in combination with the Origin's EULA does not make me any more confident, as the privacy policy seems to cover the EULA superceeding the Origins terms 2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

S 3 Privacy Policy
"Information collected will vary depending upon the activity and may include your name, email address, phone number, home address, birth date, mobile phone number and credit card information."


Privacy policy allows this to take place even if the EULA does not, as it overrides the terms of the EULA. Personal information does not equate to personally identifiable information, read things properly.

And yes EA is not going to do something illegal, that is why they are arm twisting the application user into accepting the EULA as it waives the inherrent privacy rights and makes it legal, it is not legal otherwise.

Modifié par billy the squid, 29 août 2011 - 05:50 .

[Nathander Von Eric]

Just on the subject of IP addresses.

If you are using Adobe flash player and or other Adobe programs (And 99.99 % of Windows PC users are) they not only collect information such as IP address but also share that information with 3rd parties.

That's nothing new and I would hazard a guess that a whole lot of software and companies do this.

I don't care about that. So they know where I am? So what?

[billy the squid]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Reptillius wrote...
keep in mind that the Privacy Policy for EA has a clause in there as to pertaining not only to the Store but to the eventual Online Games it will be running as well which may require a bit more information.  none of the EULA's are very comforting these days though sadly so I can understand the concern.

The non-digital purchases as of this point however do not require the downloader and you already technically have an origin account. They don't seem to be ready or feel the need so far with most of their games to make us install the client program to play our hard copies so to speak. Unless they change things in the next 6 months we'll just log in like we do to the current games just with our bioware/origin accounts.

I hope your're right, and that hardcopy purchases of ME3 won't require the Origin spyware to be installed. 

I *WANT* to buy and play ME3. 

If you're wrong, I can't do buy it or install it. 

Considering Battle field 3 has been confirmed to use origin, and the launch of a download site will require some big names, I'm thinking ME3 is going to be lumbered with it. As for retail versions EA are disengenuous, not stupid. I don't think they would allow the system to be so easily circumvented, I certainly wouldn't.

Modifié par billy the squid, 29 août 2011 - 05:49 .

[anzolino]

@Nathander Von Eric: Not all of us are using this Adobe stuff ) 99,99% are a little high.

[Alexnssilent]

quickly, everyone delete their search history, do it fast! you don't want them seeing where you have been! you sick bastards!

[Nathander Von Eric]

anzolino wrote...

@Nathander Von Eric: Not all of us are using this Adobe stuff ) 99,99% are a little high.

Have you ever watched a video on youtube?

Then you've used Adobe flash player.

As far as I know its used for most net videos like game trailers and such. And prOn too of course.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 29 août 2011 - 06:58 .

[JMKnave]

The TOS and EULA exist for one purpose only; to legally cover EA from any and all lawsuits.

It is in their best interest to make their policy stipulations vague and/or broad so that they cover the widest possible circumstances.

If you believe that the TOS and EULA exist to protect and/or help you the customer, you are mistaken.

Legislative privacy laws only protect your personal information from the government collecting/using it. They do not protect you from companies or other citizens collecting/using that information. Each person is responsible for the protection of their own personal information. By installing Origin, you are entering into a legal binding contract with EA which allows them to collect certain information about you and your system and use it in whatever manner they see fit so long as it is not "personally identifiable".

Not "personally identifiable" can be as simple as changing your real name "John Smith" on your account to your gamer nick "JSGamer1223" when sharing with third parties. The rest of the information can stay exactly the same such as age, sex, birthdate, phone, facebook, youtube, twitter, email, etc.

This is not very reassuring. It is very easy for people to link certain pieces of information together to trace it back to the original source. Case in point is Blizzard's recent attempt to change their customer accounts to show people's real names on the forums. This was met by a huge negative response and even the disclosure of certain Blizzard Executive's personal phone numbers, addresses, and up to their kids personal information as retaliation.

Why is EA doing this now though?

Origin is part of EA's new program to increase revenue for their shareholders. They want to create a social gaming network site like Facebook but for gamers. This is why your EA account is being changed to an Origin account. Eventually you'll have to log on to Origin for all their games. You'll be able to post your pics/tags/like/dislike/tweets on your pages or your friend's pages through your pc, mobile phone, tablet, gaming console, etc.

They will also use this model to push DLCs to you through an online store option. I mean, why sell your customer a complete game when you can sell them half a game at full price and then market another 5 DLCs to them after the fact if they want to experience the full story? The store will also have lots of "new costume/fluff" packs that you can buy to change the appearance of your character/npcs. And along with that will come all the header/footer/side panel advertising they can stuff into a webpage.

It's all about the collection of personal information that they can use to advertise with. Either directly by EA or by selling your information to third parties that want to market their DLC/fluff to you.

Maybe in the near future, we can log into Mass Effect 5 and have Sheppard pause in the middle of a conversation to tell us how cool and refreshing Pepsi is and that it is definitely his favourite drink on the Citadel.



I am not a fan of the current Origin TOS or EULA.

Modifié par JMKnave, 29 août 2011 - 08:27 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

I don't have a Facebook account, nor will I.

If Origin is supposed to be like Facebook, then that's another nail in the coffin of me ever buying any game that requires me to install it.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 29 août 2011 - 08:26 .

[Deathwurm]

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

I might not trust them as a company but I think they have some pretty good
people working for them in support roles based on my to personal experience
dealing with them.

My experiences dealing with EA's Customer Suppport have been much different.

The most recent contact I had with them was when the DA:O DRM servers were down for over 96 hours earlier this year.

The issue was well known to the EA Support Staff as they had been contacted by many players repeatedly. Every time I contacted them to try to get an update on an ETA for the server to come back on line, the same advice was given without any attention being payed to what I was asking. That advice was to unistall and re-install the Game. It was not until I was able to convey that this was a known issue with their server that I was told by the Representitives: "This is a known issue with our Server."

They obviously knew about the issue, but every time I contacted them by phone or on-line they continued to tell me to uninstall and re-install the Game. They did not want to admit it was their issue and were giving out advice that would make it seem as if it was a problem on the customer's end.

Modifié par Deathwurm, 29 août 2011 - 09:07 .

[Tooneyman]

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Thank God I'll be playing this on the 360.

Even if I don't read the whole thread up to page 26 this is all I have to say. Holla.

[Tooneyman]

If you really want to know what's going on. Go here http://www.google.com/analytics/ Every time you log on to the internet period you are being tracked. I would quite worrying about your information being stolen and if people are looking at your stuff. If you really want privacy I would stop using the internet and cell phones and just go live in the woods because your information even as we speak is already being observed and probably sold to third party companies so they can come up with ways to make better marketing strategies for you to buy their products. =P

[billy the squid]

Yep, because google can rummage around in my hard drive to look at what data I have or software I'm using.

[Nathander Von Eric]

Yeah. Known about forever and easily blocked.

Not even comparable what Origin EULA asks you to willing submit yourself to.

My new question is: If EA customer support is answering the question of "Will Origin be required to play ME3? " with an answer of "No. Origin will not be required for a retail copy of the game.".......

Why hasn't Bioware given any kind of response yet?

This thread has went 24 pages had over 4400 views so far. 

Hmmmmm.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 29 août 2011 - 10:40 .

[ladyvader]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The day I can't get a hard copy of software is the day I stop buying software. 

I suggest you read this article.  They will in the future get rid of discs.  Me and some of my friends have been talking about this very thing for about a year now.

[Nathander Von Eric]

The day Digital downloads programs like Origin that demands so much from a customer just to be able to buy and play their games becomes the only way to get new video games I'll go back to hosting Dungeons & Dragons table top games in my basement.

And, yes, I feel the same way about Steam and every other DD program.

Hey! I've still got all of those old books and modules and stuff too!

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 29 août 2011 - 10:41 .

[billy the squid]

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

Yeah. Known about forever and easily blocked.

Not even comparable what Origin EULA asks you to willing submit yourself to.

My new question is: If EA customer support is answering the question of "Will Origin be required to play ME3? " with an answer of "No. Origin will not be required for a retail copy of the game.".......

Why hasn't Bioware given any kind of response yet?

This thread has went 24 pages had over 4400 views so far. 

Hmmmmm.

That is a call made by the head honchos at EA, Bioware is a subsidiary after it was acquired in the take over so they don't have any control over this, or other things anymore.

[Clonedzero]

EAs current plan is probably exactly that. hopefully there will be a big anti-origin backlash with BF3.

its kinda mindboggling how stupid EA is being with all of this.

like with BF3 you have to run origin and run a web browser to launch the damn game...

EA is making their push with origin, and i think its going to make them lose alot of money. aside from BF3 and ME3, they have absolutely nothing that people will want to bother with origin for.

another thing people should be aware of, is that other big name titles that are coming out are going to be using steamworks, which most of the PC community loves. (skyrim, MW3), so thats bethesda and activision working closely with valve. EA however is all "i want my own spyware i mean game launcher!"

Modifié par Clonedzero, 29 août 2011 - 10:57 .

[TwistedComplex]

Wow it does the same thing that Steam and Firefox does


ALERT THE F***IN NAVY