1310 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

Sounds like spyware to me.

[Kusy]

slimgrin wrote...

Sounds like spyware to me.

It would have to be done without the user being aware of it for counting as such. Windows OS keeps track of many more information and is hardly considered spyware

[billy the squid]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

What else could it possibly be PC users might be afraid of giving info about?
Because if it's children pornography then I sure hope the data does get sold to the police, since Google already does that (and fairly, I think google has far more information on every single person using the internet than Origin about me, or anyone else). You have a gmail - your information is filtered and possibly sold to third parties, you use google search? Same thing.

You have a facebook account? Installed Windows? Use WinRaR? Live in the United States and go to the dentist regularly? You are a citizen of any country at all? You work and pay taxes? Welcome to the big brother show.

I don't see anything wrong with surveying customers for data that might improve retail or possibly even development, and I don't see how they could use the system against me, maybee it's just that I'm that kind of person who don't feels like defending freedom for the sake of defending it. Nothing to hide.

Why you brought up internet activities, I have no idea as that is not an issue.

The origins system scans any and all application, hardware or peripheral hardware on the system and any data there. Nor do any of the examples go rumaging through your hard drive. The HMC&R also don't have access to my investment portfolio, nor do offshore accounts come into this, nor does legal documentation stored on computers of a priviliged nature. Once the EULA is accepted the legislative defences are waived, all information is open. I don't like intrusive software having unrestricted access to my data.

And as to using the system against me, what are you talking about?

Modifié par billy the squid, 30 août 2011 - 01:06 .

[billy the squid]

Myaku1313 wrote...

For the time being Origin is optional. So just don't download it. I have it and I really don't care about it. It's just another steam like client for me. With that having been said The revised the EULA to pretty much say in that first paragraph that they know you guys are worried about invasion of privacy and they respect that but that they will need to collect some data. Anything that isn't too personal will be passed on w/o your name on it to someone other party to help better your experience. Whatever. If you use any form of social networking you already know what they are doing. If you want them to spell it out more clearly for you like how Steam did with it's EULA then write/call them and request the EULA be made more user friendly to read with amendments added to it so that the legal jargon is more easily decipherable. And also so you have piece of mind.

I don't think you will be getting a user friendly version, that would defeat the point. I studied law at university, so I have read a few of contract terms and they are a pain. It is designed to give the company coverage, it is designed to be wide. EA is not going to release a more narrowly defined version unless it absolutely has to, so, if it has to, it can argue at a later date "that is not what we meant, this is." It leaves the term open to interpretation, and places the burden of proof on the claimant, to determine what the intention of the term was.

[Femlob]

If nothing else, this whole Origin business is a creative way to get people to buy console versions of a game instead - a platform that, or so I assume, is somewhat easier to defend against piracy. Judging by this thread, it's more effective as DRM than any DRM I've seen so far.

Modifié par Femlob, 30 août 2011 - 01:17 .

[JMKnave]

For the Fanboy troll that keeps insisting agreeing to the Origin TOS is optional:



The EA Download Manager update (now called Origin) being pushed to all older EADM applications asks only "Yes" and "Exit".

This update is absolutely mandatory by EA. There is no other option to cancel the update or to not accept the TOS. Clicking "Yes" installs Origin and hence you agree to all provisions in the TOS. Clicking "Exit" shuts down EADM.

This screen will then pop up whenever you run EADM subsequently. Any game you previously purchased through EADM and rightfully own will no longer be accessible until you install Origin and hence agree to the TOS. You can no longer download them to play these games anymore. So if these games are not already installed on your system the next time you run EADM, you will lose all access to them.

This is akin to holding people's property for ransom and is not something I would call voluntary or optional.

They are already seeing a backlash from these tactics and have since "updated" their Privacy Policy and added two opt-out options in the EA account profile webpages but there is still no opt-out option from within Origin itself in regards to the collection of data.

[anzolino]

Femlob wrote...
If nothing else, this whole Origin business is a creative way to get people to buy console versions of a game instead - a platform that, or so I assume, is somewhat easier to defend against piracy. Judging by this thread, it's more effective as DRM than any DRM I've seen so far.

LOL... but this cannot be the solution. Nobody knows what happens next to console users. Remember Sony.

[Myaku1313]

billy the squid wrote...

Myaku1313 wrote...

For the time being Origin is optional. So just don't download it. I have it and I really don't care about it. It's just another steam like client for me. With that having been said The revised the EULA to pretty much say in that first paragraph that they know you guys are worried about invasion of privacy and they respect that but that they will need to collect some data. Anything that isn't too personal will be passed on w/o your name on it to someone other party to help better your experience. Whatever. If you use any form of social networking you already know what they are doing. If you want them to spell it out more clearly for you like how Steam did with it's EULA then write/call them and request the EULA be made more user friendly to read with amendments added to it so that the legal jargon is more easily decipherable. And also so you have piece of mind.

I don't think you will be getting a user friendly version, that would defeat the point. I studied law at university, so I have read a few of contract terms and they are a pain. It is designed to give the company coverage, it is designed to be wide. EA is not going to release a more narrowly defined version unless it absolutely has to, so, if it has to, it can argue at a later date "that is not what we meant, this is." It leaves the term open to interpretation, and places the burden of proof on the claimant, to determine what the intention of the term was.

Yeah I understand the contract and I am fine with it. But....while being vague and whatnot they should pull a STEAM and clarify it more for those who don't understand. Keep is so their asses are covered but dumb it down enough that the general masses stop screaming "RAPE! FIRE!"   <_<  WTB cliffnotes version.

[billy the squid]

JMKnave wrote...

For the Fanboy troll that keeps insisting agreeing to the Origin TOS is optional:



The EA Download Manager update (now called Origin) being pushed to all older EADM applications asks only "Yes" and "Exit".

This update is absolutely mandatory by EA. There is no other option to cancel the update or to not accept the TOS. Clicking "Yes" installs Origin and hence you agree to all provisions in the TOS. Clicking "Exit" shuts down EADM.

This screen will then pop up whenever you run EADM subsequently. Any game you previously purchased through EADM and rightfully own will no longer be accessible until you install Origin and hence agree to the TOS. You can no longer download them to play these games anymore. So if these games are not already installed on your system the next time you run EADM, you will lose all access to them.

This is akin to holding people's property for ransom and is not something I would call voluntary or optional.

They are already seeing a backlash from these tactics and have since "updated" their Privacy Policy and added two opt-out options in the EA account profile webpages but there is still no opt-out option from within Origin itself in regards to the collection of data.

And so it begins! Whoop de f*ckin' do.

I'm just waiting until a patch comes out for the retail version of Dragon Age Origins which requires authentification via origin for any future installation.

Modifié par billy the squid, 30 août 2011 - 01:48 .

[Gatt9]

billy the squid wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

What else could it possibly be PC users might be afraid of giving info about?
Because if it's children pornography then I sure hope the data does get sold to the police, since Google already does that (and fairly, I think google has far more information on every single person using the internet than Origin about me, or anyone else). You have a gmail - your information is filtered and possibly sold to third parties, you use google search? Same thing.

You have a facebook account? Installed Windows? Use WinRaR? Live in the United States and go to the dentist regularly? You are a citizen of any country at all? You work and pay taxes? Welcome to the big brother show.

I don't see anything wrong with surveying customers for data that might improve retail or possibly even development, and I don't see how they could use the system against me, maybee it's just that I'm that kind of person who don't feels like defending freedom for the sake of defending it. Nothing to hide.

Why you brought up internet activities, I have no idea as that is not an issue.

The origins system scans any and all application, hardware or peripheral hardware on the system and any data there. Nor do any of the examples go rumaging through your hard drive. The HMC&R also don't have access to my investment portfolio, nor do offshore accounts come into this, nor does legal documentation stored on computers of a priviliged nature. Once the EULA is accepted the legislative defences are waived, all information is open. I don't like intrusive software having unrestricted access to my data.

And as to using the system against me, what are you talking about?

The problem is,  EA has no need of any of that data.  My doctor having information is fine,  he's held to HIPA,  the government is also legally required to protect my infomration.  Google has no information about me,  only information about my IP Address,  and I can change that whenever I like.  Microsoft isn't datamining me,  not since they got nailed by the Governments when they tried it.  WinRAR is an internet myth.  Facebook only has as much information as I choose to give them.

But origins?  Why does origins need to scan the applications I have installed?  It's not relevant to the service they provide.  Given the other terms,  it sounds like to use it I first have to give them permission to scan my computer for software they don't approve of,  or to datamine my computing activities.  This is NOT legal.  Many other companies have tried this and been sued,  whether it's Microsoft gathering data without the user's express permission (Which requires full disclosure,  not a random blurb as they found out),  or Sony rootkitting computers,  it's illegal.

Scanning hardware in order to give targets to development is one thing.  Scanning my software is completely unnecessary,  and there's no way I will *ever* install Origins. 

[vader da slayer]

TwistedComplex wrote...

anzolino wrote...

If you signed up on this it's your problem not mine.

You do realize The Patriot act means that the government can collect all information and emails that are linked to you right? What makes you think Origin is ANY WHERE near your biggest problem when it comes to privacy?

the first mistake people made was thinking the internet can contain private information.

[Reptillius]

if you have an android phone then Google knows everything about you. They keep records of everything you do on their software. Some of it is even more than you would think or think you agreed to let them do by using the software but the reality is that you did agree to it.

[anzolino]

I don't have an Android and I don't understand why everybody is mentioned another company or software to justify this EULA. This thread has nothing to do with Microsoft or Google or Firefox or whatever. This discussion has nothing to do with obtaining privacy in internet. We are aware of all this. This isn't the point. This discussion is about legalising illegal data collecting by EA because if you agree to this you will legalise these practices. I want to play a game. Nothing else. And because of this EA force me to give them access to all my data. This simply goes too far and I don't want agree and I have the right to object to this proposition.

[jshadow]

Anonymous please!

[Deathwurm]

jshadow wrote...

Anonymous please!

I really hope you're not actually asking that Anonymous gets involved in this.

Do we really need a bunch of self-serving morons actually stealing our infomation "for the good of the Consumer?"

[ETermin]

jshadow wrote...

Anonymous please!

just what I was thinking time for EA, stay out of Bioware tho.

Deathwurm wrote...

I really hope you're not actually asking that Anonymous gets involved in this. 

Do we really need a bunch of self-serving morons actually stealing our infomation "for the good of the Consumer?"

If it helps get rid of origin in the long run and yes it is an extreme way. 

Modifié par ETermin, 30 août 2011 - 10:08 .

[Deathwurm]

ETermin wrote...

jshadow wrote...

Anonymous please!

just what I was thinking time for EA, stay out of Bioware tho.

Deathwurm wrote...

I really hope you're not actually asking that Anonymous gets involved in this. 

Do we really need a bunch of self-serving morons actually stealing our infomation "for the good of the Consumer?"

If it helps get rid of origin in the long run and yes it is an extreme way. 

Sorry, I have to disagree...the Anonymous group doesn't belong anywhere. They are constantly making attacks against Companies that may or may not deserve it, but the fact of the matter is...when they do attack, they only end up hurting the Consumers that they claim to be fighting for. They are simply using "the Consumer's Best Interest" as a smoke-screen for attacks they probably would have made anyway.

Stealing Credit Card and other personal information "to show how easy it is" doesn't help us at all. They could just as easily place a "note" indicating they were there. I do not support them in any way!

And, we really need to keep this on-track. Bioware has left this and the Thread in the Off-Topic Forum open so we can debate the issue at hand.

Personally, I see that as a bit of an indication of how they are seeing this issue as harmful to them as well...but that's pure speculation on my part.

[billy the squid]

Deathwurm wrote...

ETermin wrote...

jshadow wrote...

Anonymous please!

just what I was thinking time for EA, stay out of Bioware tho.

Deathwurm wrote...

I really hope you're not actually asking that Anonymous gets involved in this. 

Do we really need a bunch of self-serving morons actually stealing our infomation "for the good of the Consumer?"

If it helps get rid of origin in the long run and yes it is an extreme way. 

Stealing Credit Card and other personal information "to show how easy it is" doesn't help us at all. They could just as easily place a "note" indicating they were there. I do not support them in any way!

Anonymous stealing credit card and other personal info to show that the DRM rwhatever system is ineffective or intrusive, is easily the most obvious way to get the point across, as it causes huge problems for the company involved. However, I don't agree with it, rather that is a step too far,the act is essentially the same as those perpitrated by the company who is mining the data in question, which they claim to be against. So without condemning or condoning the reasoning behind such actions, I understand why groups like this have emerged.

Whether Anonymous deletes the data in question or not I don't know, but if I don't like personal information being collected by software systems, my opinion of of stealing credit card data to prove a point is not much better either.

Modifié par billy the squid, 30 août 2011 - 10:48 .

[elitecom]

Inge Shepard wrote...

This topic is out hand, I guess they close this thread in a moment.

Yeah I mean the topic is about whether Origin will be required to play Mass Effect 3 or not. The question has been answered though, by that EA support rep. Wouldn't mind if someone from Bioware could confirm that as well.

[Deathwurm]

elitecom wrote...

Inge Shepard wrote...

This topic is out hand, I guess they close this thread in a moment.

Yeah I mean the topic is about whether Origin will be required to play Mass Effect 3 or not. The question has been answered though, by that EA support rep. Wouldn't mind if someone from Bioware could confirm that as well.

That Rep may not have been given the correct info, though. I'd be very careful about taking that as Gospel...having been a Customer Srvc Rep, I know that those in that position are sometimes the last to know about certain things.

[Nathander Von Eric]

billy the squid wrote...
I don't think you will be getting a user friendly version, that would defeat the point. I studied law at university, so I have read a few of contract terms and they are a pain. It is designed to give the company coverage, it is designed to be wide. EA is not going to release a more narrowly defined version unless it absolutely has to, so, if it has to, it can argue at a later date "that is not what we meant, this is." It leaves the term open to interpretation, and places the burden of proof on the claimant, to determine what the intention of the term was.

Perfectly understandable and from the perspective of certain people who work for EA I'm sure that seems like sound business sense.

Especially in the litigious age that we live in.

From my perspective as a consumer I look at it as "You sell a product that you want me to buy. I'm not going to bend over just to buy your product. I can understand having to make sure that you cover your own butt. Guess what? I have to do the same thing."

Gaming is a hobby for me. It's purely entertainment. Companies have to offer something to me that makes me want what they're selling before I hand over my money to them.

I want Mass Effect 3. I do not want Origin.

And in the end I don't need either of them.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 30 août 2011 - 12:22 .

[billy the squid]

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
I don't think you will be getting a user friendly version, that would defeat the point. I studied law at university, so I have read a few of contract terms and they are a pain. It is designed to give the company coverage, it is designed to be wide. EA is not going to release a more narrowly defined version unless it absolutely has to, so, if it has to, it can argue at a later date "that is not what we meant, this is." It leaves the term open to interpretation, and places the burden of proof on the claimant, to determine what the intention of the term was.

Perfectly understandable and from the perspective of certain people who work for EA I'm sure that seems like sound business sense.

Especially in the litigious age that we live in.

From my perspective as a consumer I look at it as "You sell a product that you want me to buy. I'm not going to bend over just to buy your product. I can understand having to make sure that you cover your own butt. Guess what? I have to do the same thing."

Gaming is a hobby for me. It's purely entertainment. Companies have to offer something to me that makes me want what they're selling before I hand over my money to them.

I want Mass Effect 3. I do not want Origin.

And in the end I don't need either of them.

Which is why steam is the lesser of 2 evils in this case, I don't approve of either really, but steam at least has some restrictions within its terms of service, as do other developers. Doesn't essentially set up EA's origin as a viable competitor to steam when the terms are onerrous, it is more a cartel style system, where the only place to secure an EA product will be via origin digital download or authentification of retail products online via origin.

If one doesn't like origins, but wants the game then you are stuck. The options are legitimate purchase and be saddled with it, or illegitimate downloads, not something that I would advocate, but something which I see becoming increasingly common with the extension of invasive DRM and distribution systems.

It is a shame really as I really did enjoy DAO and the ME IP, but I will have to wait and see whether enforced origin's authentification extend's to new retail copies and patches implemented on existing copies, something I don't think will go down well, if it occurs, before I come to any firm decision on what approach to take.

Modifié par billy the squid, 30 août 2011 - 01:17 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

elitecom wrote...

Inge Shepard wrote...

This topic is out hand, I guess they close this thread in a moment.

Yeah I mean the topic is about whether Origin will be required to play Mass Effect 3 or not. The question has been answered though, by that EA support rep. Wouldn't mind if someone from Bioware could confirm that as well.

I missed that signal, in all the noise. 

What did the rep say? 

[Killjoy Cutter]

billy the squid wrote...

Nathander Von Eric wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
I don't think you will be getting a user friendly version, that would defeat the point. I studied law at university, so I have read a few of contract terms and they are a pain. It is designed to give the company coverage, it is designed to be wide. EA is not going to release a more narrowly defined version unless it absolutely has to, so, if it has to, it can argue at a later date "that is not what we meant, this is." It leaves the term open to interpretation, and places the burden of proof on the claimant, to determine what the intention of the term was.

Perfectly understandable and from the perspective of certain people who work for EA I'm sure that seems like sound business sense.

Especially in the litigious age that we live in.

From my perspective as a consumer I look at it as "You sell a product that you want me to buy. I'm not going to bend over just to buy your product. I can understand having to make sure that you cover your own butt. Guess what? I have to do the same thing."

Gaming is a hobby for me. It's purely entertainment. Companies have to offer something to me that makes me want what they're selling before I hand over my money to them.

I want Mass Effect 3. I do not want Origin.

And in the end I don't need either of them.

Which is why steam is the lesser of 2 evils in this case, I don't approve of either really, but steam at least has some restrictions within its terms of service, as do other developers. Doesn't essentially set up EA's origin as a viable competitor to steam when the terms are onerrous, it is more a cartel style system, where the only place to secure an EA product will be via origin digital download or authentification of retail products online via origin.

If one doesn't like origins, but wants the game then you are stuck. The options are legitimate purchase and be saddled with it, or illegitimate downloads, not something that I would advocate, but something which I see becoming increasingly common with the extension of invasive DRM and distribution systems.

It is a shame really as I really did enjoy DAO and the ME IP, but I will have to wait and see whether enforced origin's authentification extend's to new retail copies and patches implemented on existing copies, something I don't think will go down well, if it occurs, before I come to any firm decision on what approach to take.

That's always the worry with where things are going, isn't it?  That my perfectly legit retail copy of ME2 or DA2 or something will suddenly be unpatchable without installing Origin Spyware on my computer.