So I heard you think the computer is better?
Will Origin be required to play ME3, now that Multiplayer has been confirmed?
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They call me a SpaceCowboy
, août 24 2011 01:02
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#802
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 04:07
JGDD
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Sajuro wrote...
So I heard you think the computer is better?
As an all around tool to do more than play games, yes. It does many things and it does them well. It isn't perfect, but then again, neither are consoles. Although I have to wonder if UPnP is enabled on the consoles if they will burrow into your media that way. I know plenty of people use them for more than just games and as an access point to remote libraries.
And that pointless barb...take it somewhere else. There are plenty of other threads for you to show your mammoth IQ (equal to your shoe size amirite?) level in.
#803
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 04:11
Nauks
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Plenty of fans who buy the game/s will also pirate it SIMPLY to avoid the more retarded DRMs, supporting Bioware by paying for it is all well and good, but having a pirated copy without the DRM for a reasonable playing enviorment is a strong argument (granted that ME3 comes with the forboding DRM a lot of people are suggesting)
#804
Guest_Ford_Prefect_*
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 08:08
Guest_Ford_Prefect_*
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I have been following this thread for quite a while now, as I was interested whether there would be a reply to it by some reliable, official person/source, which could be regarded as "written in stone" and counted on afterwards and one could look forward to March '12.
I live in Europe, I care about my privacy and I believe that only the data which is truly needed should be collected; yet still with the option to opt-out. It is my PC, my privacy and if I'm willing to accept crashes because of some exotic hardware/software setup, that's my business! I have to say that I am more than happy to see that not just people from this part of the world care about their privacy and don't accept such things like 'Origin' as a given fact. Don't forget about the power of your wallets - we pay them.
So many people on this thread hit the nail on the head, pointing out why 'Origin' is something, that might very well backfire on EA/BW in terms of sales figures and their view of these companies, once people are aware of it's far reaching consequences and potential threat to ones privacy. But that is the point: people need to be (made) aware of it.
I guess I am in the same boat like many here - I really would like to play the third part of the game and 'yes', as I enjoyed the first two parts very much, of course I am willing to pay for the game to support BW, who made this great piece of entertainment available to me.
That I don't like the way, how they "make you" pay for the DLC's once you have already paid for the game, is a different subject. Makes you want to ask them "Hey, did you just sell me half a game for the full price ?!?!".
However, gettting back to people's awareness (customers, that make their boat float actually!) regarding the intrusiveness of such pieces of software like 'Origin': I doubt that many do know about it. From our customer's point of view it's good to see that there are actually people speaking up in this forum, pointing out, that this will be a reason for many of us to keep our wallets closed.
But look at this thread here; over 30 pages already and not an official reply yet, not even a vague one, that they take the concerns seriously and will reconsider the facts. They don't have to promise anything, if they can't or don't want do it at this point of time, but at least show that they care about what keeps their business running, pays their bills, provides them a job with an income - their customers.
So .... wouldn't it make sense to point a few more spotlights at this subject from outside this "closed community" forum? Like gaming magizines etc. to draw more attention to it? As the way it appears to me now, this is just us gamers without really moving anything. Of course we can go on and talk about how much we dislike it, but so far this didn't really lead anywhere.
As I am not the biggest gamer at all - had that phase a long time ago - I am not really active in e.g. game magizine forums, probably here are some who are. Why not contact the editors of big gaming magizines and ask them about writing an article on how the gaming industry is doing it's first step regarding their desire to learn so much more about their customers in a very distasteful big brother style , taking 'Origin' as an example, showing how badly things can go looking at what happened to Sony back then etc. and in that context approach EA/BW to get a statement regarding how much they respect their customer's privacy rights and whether they can understand that 'Origin' really is a concern to many? A lever properly placed can help achieve things.
.. just my two cents...
Fingers crossed - hope dies last.
I live in Europe, I care about my privacy and I believe that only the data which is truly needed should be collected; yet still with the option to opt-out. It is my PC, my privacy and if I'm willing to accept crashes because of some exotic hardware/software setup, that's my business! I have to say that I am more than happy to see that not just people from this part of the world care about their privacy and don't accept such things like 'Origin' as a given fact. Don't forget about the power of your wallets - we pay them.
So many people on this thread hit the nail on the head, pointing out why 'Origin' is something, that might very well backfire on EA/BW in terms of sales figures and their view of these companies, once people are aware of it's far reaching consequences and potential threat to ones privacy. But that is the point: people need to be (made) aware of it.
I guess I am in the same boat like many here - I really would like to play the third part of the game and 'yes', as I enjoyed the first two parts very much, of course I am willing to pay for the game to support BW, who made this great piece of entertainment available to me.
That I don't like the way, how they "make you" pay for the DLC's once you have already paid for the game, is a different subject. Makes you want to ask them "Hey, did you just sell me half a game for the full price ?!?!".
However, gettting back to people's awareness (customers, that make their boat float actually!) regarding the intrusiveness of such pieces of software like 'Origin': I doubt that many do know about it. From our customer's point of view it's good to see that there are actually people speaking up in this forum, pointing out, that this will be a reason for many of us to keep our wallets closed.
But look at this thread here; over 30 pages already and not an official reply yet, not even a vague one, that they take the concerns seriously and will reconsider the facts. They don't have to promise anything, if they can't or don't want do it at this point of time, but at least show that they care about what keeps their business running, pays their bills, provides them a job with an income - their customers.
So .... wouldn't it make sense to point a few more spotlights at this subject from outside this "closed community" forum? Like gaming magizines etc. to draw more attention to it? As the way it appears to me now, this is just us gamers without really moving anything. Of course we can go on and talk about how much we dislike it, but so far this didn't really lead anywhere.
As I am not the biggest gamer at all - had that phase a long time ago - I am not really active in e.g. game magizine forums, probably here are some who are. Why not contact the editors of big gaming magizines and ask them about writing an article on how the gaming industry is doing it's first step regarding their desire to learn so much more about their customers in a very distasteful big brother style , taking 'Origin' as an example, showing how badly things can go looking at what happened to Sony back then etc. and in that context approach EA/BW to get a statement regarding how much they respect their customer's privacy rights and whether they can understand that 'Origin' really is a concern to many? A lever properly placed can help achieve things.
.. just my two cents...
Fingers crossed - hope dies last.
Modifié par Ford_Prefect, 12 septembre 2011 - 08:40 .
#805
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 09:40
SalsaDMA
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Preston Violent wrote...
Keep whatever you have to hide on external drives and make sure their not plugged in whenever you play an EA game. It does suck that ur kinda forced to do this, but if all of the above is true, you don't have much choice, do you?
Actually you ar enot forced to do it.
You could just give EA the middle finger with Origin and not buy/install any of their games requiring it.
Nobody is forcing you to buy their products. I know I certainly won't buy any origin product.
#806
Guest_Future Guy_*
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 10:20
Guest_Future Guy_*
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Well said post, and I agree with you 100%. I'm sick and tired of vendors assuming that they can invade your privacy so that they can improve their marketing or advertising after you buy and install their software. They're getting this info for free. It's not costing them anything, and it helps them bring in more revenue. I'm expected to allow them to do this at no charge?charmingcharlie wrote...
My PC specs or my driver versions are of no damn business to EA. If I have a problem with a game they sell and it might be my PC setup then I will provide that information if I feel it is pertinent to the situation. If EA wants to do this rubbish to help better understand the PC market then might I suggest they head over to the steam hardware survey page :-
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
There they will find plenty of info on current PC specs offered up VOLUNTARILY by PC gamers. So no they do not need to sniff my hardware setup like some pervert in a rain coat.
I am not here to "improve their marketing", I don't pay nearly $100 per game to do their job for them. If EA want to know what my preferences are then they can do a VOLUNTARY survey otherwise they can keep their nose out. If EA was providing a FREE service I might consider it a "price to pay" but they aren't. They are charging me through the nose for products and on top of that trying to make a quick buck out of a "marketing profile" of me.
I don't like the sound of that EULA and since the only opt out EA give us is to not install Origin then I am quite happy to oblige and use that opt out. I am actually surprised there is anyone that is "happy" with regards to how that EULA is worded. If Origin is the price I need to pay to play Mass Effect 3 then Bioware priced themselves out of the market in my books.
I paid for the product already. I'm not going to help them make more money for nothing. If they want my info for marketing or advertising, or similar reasons, then they can offer me a voluntary survery, or pay me, or kiss my ass goodbye!
#807
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 10:35
DeathDragon185
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SalsaDMA wrote...
Preston Violent wrote...
Keep whatever you have to hide on external drives and make sure their not plugged in whenever you play an EA game. It does suck that ur kinda forced to do this, but if all of the above is true, you don't have much choice, do you?
Actually you ar enot forced to do it.
You could just give EA the middle finger with Origin and not buy/install any of their games requiring it.
Nobody is forcing you to buy their products. I know I certainly won't buy any origin product.
Yes we are not really forced to buy their products BUT this is ME3 we are concered about, the last of the trilogy and people will want this game. I will be getting the PS3 version so no origin bull**** for me. I wish I could just give my money to Bioware instead of EA. Bioware will suffer becuase of them.
#808
Guest_Inge Shepard_*
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 11:50
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:blink:ROFLOL:blink: engagement indeed.
Well, there is still no answer. I don't know how much I care anymore, because I'm not buying ME3 or any game from EA. For me ends the story with ME2.
Well, there is still no answer. I don't know how much I care anymore, because I'm not buying ME3 or any game from EA. For me ends the story with ME2.
#809
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 11:54
mcneil_1
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I get the ol' deja vu feeling it will be DA2 all over again and we wont find out officially until about a week or so before the game gets released <_<
Modifié par mcneil_1, 12 septembre 2011 - 11:55 .
#810
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 01:39
Weskerr
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Can someone link the EULA for Origins and Steam, please? I'd like to compare and contrast them. My main concern about Origins is not their selling of my information to third parties but removing my ability to play a game I already purchased if I don't play it for 2 years. The latter is sleezy and akin to legal stealing. Once I own something, I own it for life. I'm not going to pay the full price for a product only to be treated as if I'm leasing it.
If ME3 does turn out to require Origin, and these conditions for playing it are true, I very well might not purchase it.
If ME3 does turn out to require Origin, and these conditions for playing it are true, I very well might not purchase it.
#811
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 03:02
swenson
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Steam Subscriber Agreement
Origin Terms of Service
I like how Origin's ToS are on a page that's pretty much an afterthought--scarcely any formatting at all, it's obviously not a page they expect many people to see!
I haven't read Steam's subscriber agreement extensively, but I do use Steam, and they've had the chance to earn my trust. Maybe we are all just overreacting about Origin too (there were huge arguments over Steam when it first came out, after all, even though now most people like it), but they haven't had the chance to earn our trust yet.
Also, what's this thing about losing a game if you don't play it for two years? That's ridiculous! That's near to robbery! I paid for a game, who cares if I don't play it for a long time? Sure, I doubt that condition would ever apply to me, but come on. That's just absurd.
EDIT: OK, I just skimmed both of those, and technically, neither mentions information from the user's computer. There may be other agreements you have to sign to use Origin, but this ToS does not, as far as I saw, mention anything about them being able to scan your computer. If someone can find something I missed, please say so!
Origin Terms of Service
I like how Origin's ToS are on a page that's pretty much an afterthought--scarcely any formatting at all, it's obviously not a page they expect many people to see!
I haven't read Steam's subscriber agreement extensively, but I do use Steam, and they've had the chance to earn my trust. Maybe we are all just overreacting about Origin too (there were huge arguments over Steam when it first came out, after all, even though now most people like it), but they haven't had the chance to earn our trust yet.
Also, what's this thing about losing a game if you don't play it for two years? That's ridiculous! That's near to robbery! I paid for a game, who cares if I don't play it for a long time? Sure, I doubt that condition would ever apply to me, but come on. That's just absurd.
EDIT: OK, I just skimmed both of those, and technically, neither mentions information from the user's computer. There may be other agreements you have to sign to use Origin, but this ToS does not, as far as I saw, mention anything about them being able to scan your computer. If someone can find something I missed, please say so!
Modifié par swenson, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:08 .
#812
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 04:34
Kharkov
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Well, according to alot of websites EA just changed the wording in the EULA for Origin.
They have softened the tone, but are still demanding the right to Data Harvest, this they say is for survey purposes, to improve software.
But my understanding of this is (and please correct me if I am wrong) if a company is harvesting data for survey purposes then you have the right to opt-out, in other words you can not be forced to participate in a survey.
It all seems very fishy to me, and I have to be honest I really dont trust EA anymore, and this probably makes me very biased so I should just shut up.
It's a damn shame that Bioware jumped into bed with EA.
New EA EULA - eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf
You might, or might not want to read these -
www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/24/eas-origin-eula-proves-even-more-sinister/
www.joystiq.com/2011/08/26/ea-revises-origin-eula-data-collection-is-still-in-collection/
They have softened the tone, but are still demanding the right to Data Harvest, this they say is for survey purposes, to improve software.
But my understanding of this is (and please correct me if I am wrong) if a company is harvesting data for survey purposes then you have the right to opt-out, in other words you can not be forced to participate in a survey.
It all seems very fishy to me, and I have to be honest I really dont trust EA anymore, and this probably makes me very biased so I should just shut up.
It's a damn shame that Bioware jumped into bed with EA.
New EA EULA - eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf
You might, or might not want to read these -
www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/24/eas-origin-eula-proves-even-more-sinister/
www.joystiq.com/2011/08/26/ea-revises-origin-eula-data-collection-is-still-in-collection/
Modifié par Kharkov, 12 septembre 2011 - 04:41 .
#813
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 04:54
elitecom
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Still no clear answer unfortunately, EA support rep says no, Bioware developer says he doesn't know yet. It's just to wait...EternalPink wrote...
still no answer on the thread about this on the EA board either
Please don't let this be the case. Anyway shouldn't they've decided on this soon?mcneil_1 wrote...
I get the ol' deja vu feeling it will be DA2 all over again and we wont find out officially until about a week or so before the game gets released
Modifié par elitecom, 12 septembre 2011 - 04:57 .
#814
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 05:32
SalsaDMA
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elitecom wrote...
Still no clear answer unfortunately, EA support rep says no, Bioware developer says he doesn't know yet. It's just to wait...EternalPink wrote...
still no answer on the thread about this on the EA board eitherPlease don't let this be the case. Anyway shouldn't they've decided on this soon?mcneil_1 wrote...
I get the ol' deja vu feeling it will be DA2 all over again and we wont find out officially until about a week or so before the game gets released
Could be it's already decided by the EA suits, but they don't want to loose more pre-orders
#815
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 05:34
Feanor_II
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I haven't preordered yet the game, just waiting ehere all this matter leads to.....
#816
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 06:04
Killjoy Cutter
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I won't pre-order until I have a solid promise that ME3 won't require the installation of Origin. If we get that promise, I will probably pre-order. If they go back on that promise, I will use it as grounds to cancel order or return the game.
#817
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 06:51
DigitalN00b
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I don't have any knowledge what Origin is but I am starting to hate it by reading peoples post
#818
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 08:56
Computer_God91
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Yup, I haven't pre-ordered this game yet either and until someone says it doesn't require Origin I won't. If it does I'll be pretty annoyed that I can't finish this series but I still have my Xbox copies so I can just get it for that and play on Xbox, although I'd rather not.
Trust me, Origin is not something you want to install on your computer, it's the equivalent to installing spyware. Plus if you don't play your games you bought from Origin then they'll take them away from you and you'll need to buy them again.
DigitalN00b wrote...
I don't have any knowledge what Origin is but I am starting to hate it by reading peoples post
Trust me, Origin is not something you want to install on your computer, it's the equivalent to installing spyware. Plus if you don't play your games you bought from Origin then they'll take them away from you and you'll need to buy them again.
Modifié par Computer_God91, 12 septembre 2011 - 08:57 .
#819
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 09:59
EternalPink
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Was reading the news today on the BBC and found a story that may be relevant, its located at www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14859813 and its about how our german neighbours don't like privacy invasion and have forced google/facebook to take certain action, the part thats relevant to ME3/Origins is this though...
Now assuming they don't drag there heels on this i'm wondering how origins would fit into this.
Point 1 : To our knowledge there is no Orgin opt out
Point 2 : The data collected by Origin is not transparent
Point 3 : If there was a Origin opt out it would have to be the default mode
Point 4 : Hosting your servers in a place with different laws (i.e the US, Canada or some remote island) won't be a automatic get out of jail free card as it is at the moment
So while they may not amend Origins to make us consumers happy they may have to amend it for it to be allowed on sale in europe ( according to wiki EU estimated 2011 population is roughly 500 million which is a hell of of a lot of potential customers to loose)
European Commission Vice-President, Viviane Reding set out her privacy vision ahead of planned reforms to the law.
In her March 2011 speech, she described the "four pillars" of the new EU Data Protection Framework
- Right to be forgotten: "People shall have the right - and not only the 'possibility' - to withdraw their consent to data processing."
- Transparency: "Individuals must be informed about which data is collected and for what purposes."
- Privacy by default: "Privacy settings often require considerable operational effort in order to be put in place. Such settings are not a reliable indication of consumers' consent. This needs to be changed."
- Protection regardless of data location: European citizens should receive the same protection "whatever the geographical location of the service provider."
Now assuming they don't drag there heels on this i'm wondering how origins would fit into this.
Point 1 : To our knowledge there is no Orgin opt out
Point 2 : The data collected by Origin is not transparent
Point 3 : If there was a Origin opt out it would have to be the default mode
Point 4 : Hosting your servers in a place with different laws (i.e the US, Canada or some remote island) won't be a automatic get out of jail free card as it is at the moment
So while they may not amend Origins to make us consumers happy they may have to amend it for it to be allowed on sale in europe ( according to wiki EU estimated 2011 population is roughly 500 million which is a hell of of a lot of potential customers to loose)
Modifié par EternalPink, 12 septembre 2011 - 10:01 .
#820
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 10:48
Filurija
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I pre-orderd the game but will play with Crack
#821
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 10:51
anzolino
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Thanks Eternal, legal progress is being made!
#822
Posté 12 septembre 2011 - 11:53
Siegdrifa
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SalsaDMA wrote...
elitecom wrote...
Still no clear answer unfortunately, EA support rep says no, Bioware developer says he doesn't know yet. It's just to wait...EternalPink wrote...
still no answer on the thread about this on the EA board eitherPlease don't let this be the case. Anyway shouldn't they've decided on this soon?mcneil_1 wrote...
I get the ol' deja vu feeling it will be DA2 all over again and we wont find out officially until about a week or so before the game gets released
Could be it's already decided by the EA suits, but they don't want to loose more pre-orders
Like i said, Battle Field 3 is a highly anticipated game to be release at the end of the year AND Origin only, this is the real test subject for EA, and Battle Field 3 succes could seal the destiny of many futur EA realse on Origin.
That'swhy it is to be expected that nothing from EA or Bioware concerning ME3 and origin will be announced until the release get near.
If BF3 is a succes, not doubt they won't question them self and keep going for their other release.
If BF3 is a fail, there is 2 possibility, softening Origin "only" in order to stop impacting games sales, or, reformulate Origin only to make it look and smell better and try injecting the new marketing attemp in ME3, the next lab-rat.
#823
Posté 13 septembre 2011 - 12:06
Computer_God91
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Siegdrifa wrote...
Like i said, Battle Field 3 is a highly anticipated game to be release at the end of the year AND Origin only, this is the real test subject for EA, and Battle Field 3 succes could seal the destiny of many futur EA realse on Origin.
That'swhy it is to be expected that nothing from EA or Bioware concerning ME3 and origin will be announced until the release get near.
If BF3 is a succes, not doubt they won't question them self and keep going for their other release.
If BF3 is a fail, there is 2 possibility, softening Origin "only" in order to stop impacting games sales, or, reformulate Origin only to make it look and smell better and try injecting the new marketing attemp in ME3, the next lab-rat.
I said this already but I won't be buying BF3 because it's going to make me install origin to play it. Hopefully I won't be one of the few doing this so that EA will pull their heads out of their asses and not force us to use Origin. Then they can have my sale.
#824
Posté 13 septembre 2011 - 01:05
Killjoy Cutter
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EternalPink wrote...
Was reading the news today on the BBC and found a story that may be relevant, its located at www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14859813 and its about how our german neighbours don't like privacy invasion and have forced google/facebook to take certain action, the part thats relevant to ME3/Origins is this though...European Commission Vice-President, Viviane Reding set out her privacy vision ahead of planned reforms to the law.
In her March 2011 speech, she described the "four pillars" of the new EU Data Protection Framework
- Right to be forgotten: "People shall have the right - and not only the 'possibility' - to withdraw their consent to data processing."
- Transparency: "Individuals must be informed about which data is collected and for what purposes."
- Privacy by default: "Privacy settings often require considerable operational effort in order to be put in place. Such settings are not a reliable indication of consumers' consent. This needs to be changed."
Protection regardless of data location: European citizens should receive the same protection "whatever the geographical location of the service provider."
Now assuming they don't drag there heels on this i'm wondering how origins would fit into this.
Point 1 : To our knowledge there is no Orgin opt out
Point 2 : The data collected by Origin is not transparent
Point 3 : If there was a Origin opt out it would have to be the default mode
Point 4 : Hosting your servers in a place with different laws (i.e the US, Canada or some remote island) won't be a automatic get out of jail free card as it is at the moment
So while they may not amend Origins to make us consumers happy they may have to amend it for it to be allowed on sale in europe ( according to wiki EU estimated 2011 population is roughly 500 million which is a hell of of a lot of potential customers to loose)
I want this kind of law in the US as well, damnit. Especially the part where everyone has a right to be excluded from all data collection and processing.
#825
Posté 13 septembre 2011 - 01:25
Nathander Von Eric
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Edit: You know what?
I'm tired of posting in this thread.
It just seems like a futile waste of time even worrying about it at this point.
When or if Bioware gives us a reply here or puts the information out in other ways I guess it will make sense revisiting the issue.
I'm tired of posting in this thread.
It just seems like a futile waste of time even worrying about it at this point.
When or if Bioware gives us a reply here or puts the information out in other ways I guess it will make sense revisiting the issue.
Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 13 septembre 2011 - 11:33 .
