1310 réponses à ce sujet

[Rabenkopf]

anzolino wrote...

@Mr.Pink: Where did you get this 4, 000, 000 lost sales count?

I´m curious too...

[N0-Future]

One question " what's the point of Origin "?
I have not seen any DRM or anti piracy software that cant be hacked,so again " what's the point "?

The only thing Origin will do is ****** off people like me who want to buy the game,

[N0-Future]

BTW that's 43 pages now and only silence.

[Weskerr]

N0-Future wrote...

BTW that's 43 pages now and only silence.

I PM'd a dev. asking if he knew anything and this was his answer:

Honestly, I don't know. Platform specific integration stuff like that is
usually handled a bit later and is usually tied up more with biz-dev
stuff. So... I don't know either way, sorry!

Take it for what you will, but I believe him. He's basically saying that it's too early before release for them to know because it hasn't been decided yet and it's a business related topic which the game developers, like him,  aren't involved in.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Then here's an idea.

Developers and/or publishers: Take all of this excessive DRM crap, throw it in the garbage where it belongs, and go back to the way things were in, say, 1997. No internet connection required. Everybody wins.

And people would pirate the F out of it.

Not all people are like you and me who pay for their games. Many run keygens coupled with torrenting games to play...DRM is sadly necessary, but DRM SHOULD NOT RUIN A  GAME, as it is doing with the  ME series.

Which is the greater evil: Restrictive DRM on thousands (or millions) of legitimate customers, or a select few low-life degenerates pirating the game (who will pirate regardless of DRM)?  My answer is the former.  Piracy is unavoidable (because there will always be criminals), and you know, I believe that this authentication stuff actually makes it worse.

[Zkyire]

The only people DRM affects are the people who actually buy the games.

Pirates don't care 'cause they're downloading cracked versions of the games.

In other words; it's completely friggin useless. It serves no purpose but to ****** us legitimate buyers off.

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 22 septembre 2011 - 12:46 .

[ncknck]

Origin is a good thing. A bit of competition for Steam doesnt hurt. Customer wins. This includes DRM. If one is offering a game with drm, and another w/o.. see there it is going?

[Rabenkopf]

Weskerr wrote...

Take it for what you will, but I believe him. He's basically saying that it's too early before release for them to know because it hasn't been decided yet and it's a business related topic which the game developers, like him,  aren't involved in.

I believe that Bioware don´t have a clue about this, because it is a EA-Thing. But EA said it officially in an interview that all Future EA-Games should have Origins. And ME3 is a Future EA-Game. 

[Shepard the Leper]

ncknck wrote...

Origin is a good thing. A bit of competition for Steam doesnt hurt. Customer wins. This includes DRM. If one is offering a game with drm, and another w/o.. see there it is going?

No, I don't see were this is going.

What you're saying is Steam screws their customers and now Origins joins to club = customers lose big time.

To be clear. DRM is not something customer friendly, it's the total opposite. Any form of DRM is by definition bad for customers. I never met anyone who bought a game just to "enjoy" DRM.

[Weskerr]

Not_Zero wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Take it for what you will, but I believe him. He's basically saying that it's too early before release for them to know because it hasn't been decided yet and it's a business related topic which the game developers, like him,  aren't involved in.

I believe that Bioware don´t have a clue about this, because it is a EA-Thing. But EA said it officially in an interview that all Future EA-Games should have Origins. And ME3 is a Future EA-Game. 

I'm not so sure nobody at Bioware knows anything about it, but I agree with you that this is an EA matter and EA's choice to make.

By the way, can you provide a link to that interview you mentioned?

[NaastyNZL]

ncknck wrote...

Origin is a good thing. A bit of competition for Steam doesnt hurt. Customer wins. This includes DRM. If one is offering a game with drm, and another w/o.. see there it is going?

Okay, Origin would be a good thing for customers if only they started competing against Steam with good deals, great service or cheaper games. But they're not doing anything like that. Instead I find that their games are more expensive compared to Steam, even retail stores sell games cheaper than Origin! I have trouble understanding why that's the case...

DRM side of things really doesn't benefit customers at all, instead it punishes them for buying their product with limited installs, restrictions or online authentication. Seriously, Publishers need to learn that Pirates will always be one step of them. They really need to take a different approach to make people purchase their products instead of justifying their cause into pirating it.

Modifié par NaastyNZL, 22 septembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[RyuujinZERO]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

The only people DRM affects are the people who actually buy the games.

Pirates don't care 'cause they're downloading cracked versions of the games.

In other words; it's completely friggin useless. It serves no purpose but to ****** us legitimate buyers off.

This ^

Invasive DRM's like Origin have limits, because they usually have some kind of tamper-proofing built into them; but when multiple DRM packages like starforce and origin start interacting together they can start getting into loops, stealling resources to check and counter check each other's "tamper attempts" and generally kludging up the computer's normal operation in their attempts to check every little process is legit. I remember I had a problem some time back where Starforce would get into a fight with my virus checker and BLUE SCREEN THE PC

It's been pointed out many times that active DRM is ineffectual precisely because it ONLY affects payign customers; and let's be clear it DOES affect them; yes they don't have to worry about actually being blocked by the software, but that software takes up RAM and CPU process time - and every company, hell every GAME usually has it's own unique flavour of DRM, each taking up it's bit of memory and processor time. 

ME2 had the right idea with the cerberus network making it so that you only got part the content if you bought second hand, borrowed or pirated - the rest being DLC, but free with registration. While technically you could probably get around that with the right piratey stuff, just about any form of DRM can anyway, the least they can do is to utilise methods of protection that are uninvasive if the DRM is non-invasive, then at least nobody is going to be encouraged to turn to piracy simpyl to AVOID cludging their machine and it's registry with stuff like Origin, Starforce or Steam

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 23 septembre 2011 - 01:31 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

The only people DRM affects are the people who actually buy the games.

Pirates don't care 'cause they're downloading cracked versions of the games.

In other words; it's completely friggin useless. It serves no purpose but to ****** us legitimate buyers off.

This ^

Invasive DRM's like Origin have limits, because they usually have some kind of tamper-proofing built into them; but when multiple DRM packages like starforce and origin start interacting together they can start getting into loops, stealling resources to check and counter check each other's "tamper attempts" and generally kludging up the computer's normal operation in their attempts to check every little process is legit. I remember I had a problem some time back where Starforce would get into a fight with my virus checker and BLUE SCREEN THE PC

It's been pointed out many times that active DRM is ineffectual precisely because it ONLY affects payign customers; and let's be clear it DOES affect them; yes they don't have to worry about actually being blocked by the software, but that software takes up RAM and CPU process time - and every company, hell every GAME usually has it's own unique flavour of DRM, each taking up it's bit of memory and processor time. 

ME2 had the right idea with the cerberus network making it so that you only got part the content if you bought second hand, borrowed or pirated - the rest being DLC, but free with registration. While technically you could probably get around that with the right piratey stuff, just about any form of DRM can anyway, the least they can do is to utilise methods of protection that are uninvasive if the DRM is non-invasive, then at least nobody is going to be encouraged to turn to piracy simpyl to AVOID cludging their machine and it's registry with stuff like Origin, Starforce or Steam

Well said.

[mcneil_1]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

The only people DRM affects are the people who actually buy the games.

Pirates don't care 'cause they're downloading cracked versions of the games.

In other words; it's completely friggin useless. It serves no purpose but to ****** us legitimate buyers off.

This ^

Invasive DRM's like Origin have limits, because they usually have some kind of tamper-proofing built into them; but when multiple DRM packages like starforce and origin start interacting together they can start getting into loops, stealling resources to check and counter check each other's "tamper attempts" and generally kludging up the computer's normal operation in their attempts to check every little process is legit. I remember I had a problem some time back where Starforce would get into a fight with my virus checker and BLUE SCREEN THE PC

It's been pointed out many times that active DRM is ineffectual precisely because it ONLY affects payign customers; and let's be clear it DOES affect them; yes they don't have to worry about actually being blocked by the software, but that software takes up RAM and CPU process time - and every company, hell every GAME usually has it's own unique flavour of DRM, each taking up it's bit of memory and processor time. 

ME2 had the right idea with the cerberus network making it so that you only got part the content if you bought second hand, borrowed or pirated - the rest being DLC, but free with registration. While technically you could probably get around that with the right piratey stuff, just about any form of DRM can anyway, the least they can do is to utilise methods of protection that are uninvasive if the DRM is non-invasive, then at least nobody is going to be encouraged to turn to piracy simpyl to AVOID cludging their machine and it's registry with stuff like Origin, Starforce or Steam

I agree as well.

[Solmanian]

The way it works now, after you download the game and install the game, you don't need origin anymore.

This whole topic is just some guy reading EULA and getting a hissy fit. The EULA are designed to cover every possible contingency by their lawyers. If you actually read the EULA (sometimes dozens of pages long) everytime you buy something, you wouldn't buy anything from anyone.
It's like the episode in southpark, you know the one I'm talking about.

But what do I care, the advantage of living in a country that half the companies don't sell games in, is that the other half don't bother sending their lawyers after you.
Right now I'm downloading DA:O from torrent because origin is on the fritz. I reckon I have more to complain about than they do.

[StarGateGod]

who would by this game if it was required

[quaigee]

StarGateGod wrote...

who would by this game if it was required

I would. In fact I ordered the Digital Deluxe version. 

[Filurija]

http://www.gameinfor...-agreement.aspx

Modifié par Filurija, 24 septembre 2011 - 01:19 .

[Hitchno]

Filurija wrote...

http://www.gameinfor...-agreement.aspx

Ahahah yeah right.  For those that don't want to read the link...

"By accepting these terms, you and EA expressly waive the right to a trial by jury or to participate in a class action.



YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BY THIS PROVISION, YOU AND EA ARE FOREGOING THE RIGHT TO SUE IN COURT AND HAVE A JURY TRIAL.



YOU AND EA AGREE THAT EACH MAY BRING CLAIMS AGAINST THE OTHER ONLY IN
YOUR OR ITS INDIVIDUAL CAPACITY, AND NOT AS A PLAINTIFF OR class MEMBER
IN ANY PURPORTED class OR REPRESENTATIVE PROCEEDING."

Yeah good luck selling that in Canada.  It's 100% illegal to strip away a persons right by EULA, ToS or contract here.  Oh just to add, I'm sure the whole thing about this being a new ToS and giving people only "2 days" to opt out is really kosher and all that. 

Modifié par Hitchno, 24 septembre 2011 - 09:34 .

[DeathDragon185]

Solmanian wrote...

The way it works now, after you download the game and install the game, you don't need origin anymore.

are you saying we can delete origin once we have installed ME3?

[slimgrin]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

The only people DRM affects are the people who actually buy the games.

They know that. DRM measures of late do more than just 'fight' piracy. 

[quaigee]

DeathDragon185 wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

The way it works now, after you download the game and install the game, you don't need origin anymore.

are you saying we can delete origin once we have installed ME3?

No, Origin is required to be installed to run the game. support.ea.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/66/~/manually-uninstalling-origin 
However Origin itself does not need to be running while you're playing a game. 

[didymos1120]

quaigee wrote...

No, Origin is required to be installed to run the game. support.ea.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/66/~/manually-uninstalling-origin 
However Origin itself does not need to be running while you're playing a game. 

Yeah.  It's because the licenses are handled by Origin. You might be able to leave certain registry keys and the license files intact and get rid of the executable, but I haven't experimented with that myself.

[Admoniter]

Either way if I don't hear anything about whether or not Origin is included by New Years I will cancel my preorder. I have no interest in being left in the dark when it comes to matters like DRM. No ifs ands or buts.

[vader da slayer]

Not_Zero wrote...

anzolino wrote...

@Mr.Pink: Where did you get this 4, 000, 000 lost sales count?

I´m curious too...

out of his posterior

for that to happen no one new would have to buy ME3 on pc from ME2 and the PC sales would have to drop by 38% (using VGChartz's total pc sales of ME2 at just shy of 180k units, so this drop would be ~67k people not buying ME3). and 38% is massive and isn't in line with the number of people (obviously as EA isn't doing anything in response to them so its obviously just a very very small minority just screaming in multiple places) saying they won't buy it. in terms of total sales,

also not to mention that of all ME2 sales ~77% were on 360 (2.52 million) then there were 580k sales on PS3. so if you do a sales loss in terms of the entire game it would be a sales drop of about 2% or the sales droping from 3.28 million total to 3.213 million which is still not a trivial drop. note: these number are based on VGCharz's sales numbers for ME2 and assumes no one new buys ME3 that didn't buy ME2.